Dave's Log - Ultra Low-Fat Experiment

DaveFoster

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My name's Dave, and I like food. Specifically, I like Ray Peat's food choices of milk and OJ. I'm going to go on a PUFA depletion experiment where I consume primarily milk and OJ with a few other things along the way. I'll be logging my results here. I've been Peating for two weeks, and I've never felt so good. Eating this way has likely cured my autistic behaviors :ugeek:, probably do to high serotonin levels. I feel happy, horny, and energized all day, as a young guy should, so thank you Ray Peat.

My goal is 31 days, but I would be content with 2 weeks on this experiment. Details are as follows:

LENGTH (OF EXPERIMENT :cool: ): TWO WEEKS MINIMUM
FOODS: SKIM MILK, OJ, GRAPE JUICE, other JUICES, daily CARROT, occasional CANDY and HIGH-CARB FOODS, but NO ADDED FAT
AGE: 18
HEIGHT: 5'10''
WEIGHT: 180
BODY FAT: 15% (approx.)
ACTIVITY LEVEL: WEIGHT TRAINING x3 PER WEEK
WORK: 5-6 DAYS PER WEEK w/ MODERATE STRESS LEVEL
SUPPLEMENTS: ESTROBAN - 8 DROPS ED (topical), CAFFEINE - >100 mg (COFFEE + irregular use), L-THEANINE - varies widely w/ 500 mg BEFORE BED (oral + irregular use), PHENIBUT - 500 mg - 1 g BEFORE BED (oral + irregular use)
GOALS: (1) LIMIT FAT TO AT LEAST UNDER 15%, IDEALLY UNDER 5% + NO STARCH
(2) CONSUME AT LEAST 150 g PROTEIN PER DAY and 500 g + CARBS FROM SIMPLE SUGARS
(3) DO NOT RESTRICT CALORIES + NO HUNGER/THIRST
(4) AVOID GOING TO FAILURE DURING WORKOUTS
(5) GET AS MUCH SLEEP AS NEEDED
(6) NO MASTURBATION (to observe libido)

DAY 1(8/7/15): Woke up feeling tired and hypothyroid from undereating yesterday. I foolishly didn't eat anything before bed. Had a lot of skim milk and OJ (3 glasses), but I didn't like the taste. Nevertheless, I drank it down, bench pressed (3 sets w/ 9 reps), and went to work. On my bench, my strength tanked due to CNS fatigue from not eating enough. At work, I had some more skim milk and OJ, (3 glasses) and about 32 oz of apple juice. I hit a wall around 2 PM, had some coffee w/ skim milk and OJ, along with plenty of apple juice (AJ). The AJ bumped up by blood sugar nicely, and I felt confident all day. I'm noticing a little more anxiety than usual, but I feel pretty good and my confidence seems high. I was tempted to eat with my family, but they're having ribs, corn, and salad, which all brings too much fat. I had some sour patch kids, and they made me a little sick to my stomach, along with some chai tea w/ milk. I did incline bench (4 sets w/ 9 reps) and bicep curls (4 sets w/ 10 reps).

NOTES: I'm curious as to how elevated insulin levels and lowered cortisol levels impacts the body's needs for fats. High heart-rate seems to throb less and seems more suppressed along with reduced fatigue. Ever since Peating, my hypomania seems more and more constant; I feel awesome all the time.

DAY 2: Woke up feeling slightly hypothyroid, but less than yesterday. I had a few glasses of milk and OJ, some chia tea w/ milk, along with a couple of milk and GJ, and I did some bench press (4x9), lateral raises (4x15), and some bicep curl (2x8). I'm experiencing enhanced recovery on this diet, likely due to skyrocketed insulin levels from all the carbs and protein. I'm experimenting with every day and every-other-day high-frequency training sessions, where I'll be lowering volume and intensity; never going too close to failure. I plan on benching 2x8, 2x9, 2x10, 2x11, and lastly 2x12 on a cyclical pattern. I seem to be eating an immeasurable amount of calories. I have drank fully two gallons of skim milk and about 3 containers of juice, which adds up to around 4-5k calories total, with over 200g protein and 800g carbs (probably more). Despite all this, I still feel a bit cold, and I have been having diarrhea and slight heartburn. My guess are either lactose intolerance, casein intolerance, fructose malabsorption, or some reaction to the chia. Libido is way up. Ate my carrot and went to bed at 11:30 after working a long shift. Pulses are moderate; I ordered a thermometer.

NOTES: Woke up in the middle of night (3:00) to a spike in cortisol, along with restless leg syndrome. I felt extremely uneasy, and I suspect some sort of deficiency. I had some magnesium, a bit of salt, some sugar and milk, and I went back to bed. I slept poorly until later on in the night.

DAY 3: Woke up groggy and irritated. Had some milk, OJ, a few bananas, and some mollasses on a bit of rice flour pancake w/ one egg in the batter; (I cheated because I ran out of milk.) The size of the pancake is trivial, so the starch composition to my diet is minor at the most. Took an Epsom salt bath and I feel so much better and more relaxed. I'm going to try upping my calories before bed and regularly adding in magnesium to see if this helps the bowel issues. Since starting, my skin has cleared up and acne is gradually going away. I drank one Monster energy drink, (160 mg caffeine, which is high for me,) w/ OJ, and my metabolism kicked in to high gear, so today will be productive. Did some deadlifts (1x5 and 1x8); took an extremely long and arduous 4 mile walk with 4 gallons of milk in my hands; this along with an argument put me into a stressful state. I did not eat enough, so I chugged half a gallon of milk and went to bed. Pulses are lower-end of normal (65-70).

NOTES: Woke up at around 4:00 AM to another cortisol spike, but this time with more RLS. I got up, drank some milk with liberal amounts of sugar and salt but no magnesium. I slept okay after this, albeit with nightmares. I suspect it's a combination of a caloric deficit and a lack of salt that's causing my insomnia. Apparently, I had a wet dream last night, despite the absence of a wet dream. I woke up with the most prominent erection I've ever had in my life, despite a caloric deficit. My sex hormone production is up and up.

DAY 4: My energy levels are going downhill. I'm going to eat a surplus of calories today. I feel awake, but I'm running on a stress-response. It's very difficult to eat enough calories on this diet. I felt better as the day went on, but mornings are a problem. I drank a lot of milk and ate a lot of candy, but did not drink as much juice. I drank a couple glasses of OJ w/ some baking soda in it, which helped bump up my energy levels substantially. My pulse was moderately high after this (75-80). Took the day off and didn't workout, and I only drank a small amount of caffeine (25 mg) in the form of a quarter cup of coffee. Felt alright all around. My body composition seems to be changing for the better. Despite some edema and water retention, I am losing weight while gaining strength, so I do not think my hormones of anabolism is impacted by the reduced fat intake. By the time nighttime rolled around, I was unusually tired. I made sure to drink plenty of calories and went to bed. I slept moderately well, probably due to the baking soda in the OJ.

NOTES: Sltill feel tired in the mornings. Skin feels smoother and acne is beginning to clear up. Energy levels are very low in the morning. I never used to get tired, as I was on a ketogenic diet, but now that my stress hormones are lowering, I feel exhausted sometimes. Just started Estroban, so I think the Vitamin E may be causing my body to dump salt.

DAY 5: I woke up after a long slumber feeling somewhat tired. I feel as though I'm congested, and my chest feels tight sometimes. I feel lighter and energetic most of the time, however. I drank a lot of OJ and milk (6 glasses), worked my shift, and I went out to eat. I cheated and hat a French Dip, but I only ate the lean roast beef and some of the cheese, generally avoiding the bread. I drank the Aus Jus, which was high in salt, and I felt fantastic. I'm definitely going to consider upping my sodium intake. Fat for the day was on the higher side of 15%. I went to a movie and ate quite a bit of candy, but with no fat. I felt pretty decent and satiated after this. I took a high dose of Phenibut (1 g) and some L-Thenaine (500 mg) and went out like a light. Surprisingly, I slept for 11 hours.

NOTES: I'm sleeping a great deal more than I ever did, and I feel very tired afterwards. I feel calmer and more centered, and I can gauge when a stress response mounts itself after going too long without eating. My skin feels warm and smooth, as if my metabolism is humming all day. I feel bloated and edemic, so I will continue adding more salt.

DAY 6: After waking up tired from a long night of interrupted sleep, although deep sleep, I wanted to start my day without caffeine. Surprisingly, I woke up easily and once I had some juice, I felt great. I went to class, and I noticed that I kept getting sexual urges about an older lady who sits next to me. I'm not sure what this is about, but I've never had such a strong sex drive. I used to get like this, but it was draining and almost sapping of my energy. Now it feels empowering. I drank about 3/4 gallon of skim milk during my glass, did some lat pull-downs (2x12) and squats (2x12), and walked home. I felt pretty good all around, but I was craving fructose. I got home and drank some concentrated OJ with a bit of water, and immediately I felt a rush of energy. I worked and continued to drink my milk, adding in some chocolate and sugar. I feel warm and my pulse is good. I'm craving oysters, and I need to a find a way to add more salt into my diet, as drinking it straight is unappealing.

NOTES: I need more salt! Oyster cravings. I feel fat, yet I'm leaner and losing weight while gaining muscle. My skin and eyes look healthier. I feel warmer all the time. I have a more constant energy level. My strength seems more steady, particularly when carrying things. My joints hurt, along with my back, so I think fat plays a pivotal role in collagen synthesis and tendon regrowth. Super low-fat day: >5g.

DAY 7 (8/13/15) Back still hurts. I did some bench press, lateral raises and bicep curls (2 sets of each). I'm beginning to develop slight tendonitis in my right elbow, which I think is from a combination of benching, lateral raises, and curls on the same day, along with the increased frequency. My energy was better in the morning than usual, and I'm drinking a more steady supply, albeit lower amount, of caffeine from day to day. I brought a gallon of milk to work, got some laughs, and I drank with some cocoa powder and sugar. Got home, drank some more milk and a couple containers of juice, which adds up to about 1600 calories of juice alone. I feel okay. My pulse is average (75). My lower energy levels could be attributed to a lack of iron (unlikely), an allergy to the juices, too much protein, or the EstroBan (specifically the salt dumping.) I slept okay.

NOTES: I feel energized most of the time, but I'm going to bed late, and my energy levels are decreasing, slowly. It might just be the workout routine, but there are a lot of factors. Stools are green, probably due to the grape juice, and I'm getting off and on gut irritation and diarrhea with a little upper GI heat. I also have what looks like tarry stools, but they could just be really dark green.

DAY 8: Woke up at around 11 and got to work in a hurry at 11:30. I forgot my milk so I ate a small bit of a shift meal. I unknowingly chose a small cup of salmon chowder. I felt horrible after eating this; beyond awful. I got home, and my energy levels were absolutely zero. I felt like I was dying; I knew it was the salmon. My thyroid just turned off for a while. My pulse was down to 60-65. The amount of salmon in the chowder was incredibly small, so it could have been a combination of underrating plus the omega-3. I got home and had some milk and lots of grape juice, and I had terrible stomach upset. For the rest of the day, I went to the bathroom about 3 times every hour. I had diarrhea and tarry stools, along with blood. I felt so bad that I ate some jambalaya that my parents made, which just gave me heartburn. I ate some cobbler made with rice flour and peaches, with a small amount of butter (not very much at all), and I felt relatively okay, but I still had the stomach problems and continued to drink the milk to get enough calories in. Bad day, so I took some L-Thenanine (500 mg) and Phenibut (700 mg?) and slept only okay. Definitely a higher fat day.

NOTES: The bowel troubles are getting ridiculous and I'm tired of this. I'm going to do an experiment. My energy levels are low but not so bad.

DAY 9 Woke up; felt okay, just okay. Drank some about half a Monster, did some bench press, curls, and lateral raises (2 sets of each). Did some housework for about an hour. Drank a gallon of skim milk with NO stomach upset whatsoever. One factor eliminated. Drank one container of grape juice w/ a little water, but still concentrated (720 calories or so), and I immediately had gurgling in my stomach, went to the bathroom and eliminated a green stool. Fructose malabsorption? Gut bacteria problems? No clue. Had a large container of orange juice after going too long without eating. I'm using my bright light therapy again which is helping me go to sleep easier, and I had some oyster stew with a lot of salt. Slept pretty decently.

NOTES: It's getting easier as my body is adjusting and I keep putting on muscle. I feel pretty good.

DAY 10 Woke up; immediately reached for the Monster and took a little bit. I ate my carrot in the morning as opposed to evening today. I believe the combination of sucralose in the Monster, caffeine, and hypothyroid effects of the carrot, along with a lack of calories all sent me into a severe hypoglycemic state where my stress hormones kicked in. My feet and hands were very cold, and my pulse was 55. I immediately downed a gallon of skim milk and hopped in a warm bath with Epsom salt. I felt fantastic the entire time; catechlomines and euphoria. My pulse later jumped to 75. I tried my bright light therapy again and had temporary blindness. This freaked me out, and I attributed it to the lower-fat consumption, as I never had this problem in the past. It gradually went away, and I felt very nice for the remainder of the day. Very low-fat day (>6 g). Pulse is okay (75).

NOTES: Macular degeneration may be a reality on the no-fat diet.

DAY 11 Woke up; downed a Monster and then some (200 mg). I had a lot of paperwork, and I needed to focus. I dosed some l-theanine (200 mg). I also took a dose of ashwagandha. Worked out, PRed on bench press (2 sets), on lateral raises (2 sets), and on bicep curls (2 sets). Caffiene is amazing, and I think I'm going to up my dose. It's impacts on motivation are too tempting to resist. I had absolutely no problem drinking my milk, and then I drank my cannister of grape juice. Later on, I drank my OJ throughout the day, and I also had some more OJ. I probably ended up with 3000 calories. Caffeine made me aggressive, focused, motivated, and I felt absolutely fantastic with no side effects. It was about 20 mg too much, if I had to guess. I kept balancing the anxiety with small doses of l-theanine. The pairing of caffeine with a high-carbohydrate, high-liquid Peat diet cannot be matched. Before I slept, I knew I needed to maximize my sleep quality, so I took about a teaspoon of salt, tablespoon of sugar, glass of skim milk, l-theanine (500 mg), phenibut (300 mg), ashwagandha (200 mg), and some magnesium glycinate (1 g). My sleep was rejuvenating, but not great. The caffeine definitely negatively impacted sleep quality, although I had fantastic dreams.

NOTES: Mood is incredible. I could do this forever, at least until tolerance catches up. Libido is high, but the caffeine takes the draw away from sex or masturbation. I think that I may be adapting to the fat-free diet, along with the EstroBan, but more likely I'm just masking my fatigue with caffeine. This definitely does not benefit sleep quality.

DAY 12 Woke up well-rested, yet unmotivated; downed some of a Monster and some coffee for caffeine (160mg). Drank a gallon of skim milk. Took an Epsom salt bath, but my work called me in early, so I ran there, but I felt great the whole time and afterwards. Worked, felt fantastic and social (caffiene is a godsend). I also took another dose of ashwagandha (200 mg?). Got home around 5:00 PM, took a small amount of caffeine via chia tea (20 mg?). Finished organizing paperwork, and I felt like starting a home-based business. Ate some pulled pork and peaches. I felt horrible after eating the pork, (tired), so I mixed some gelatin with milk, and that, along with the caffeine, fixed me right up. Took some topical aspirin (700 mg), which helped lower serotonin.

NOTES: I feel great, but I definitely foresee some tolerance coming with caffeine, so I'm going to make an effort to cycle it. Skin doesn't seem to be clearing up as fast any more, and I have a bit of a cough. The caffeine may be impairing my immune system.
 

charlie

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First. :mrgreen:

iu
 
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Self experimentation is the best thing to do in the context of nutrition/health/fitness. But beware of conformation bias.

I'm similar to you in that I'm 5'10 1/2" and currently about 183. That puts us at about 25-30 pounds overweight. The extra body fat is going to have an impact on everything and it should not be ignored. Body temperature and pulse should be monitored but often times when overweight, body temp can be high due to stress hormones like adrenaline and not because of an increased metabolic rate.

DaveFoster said:
NOTES: I'm curious as to how elevated insulin levels and lowered cortisol levels impacts the body's needs for fats.

If protective steroid hormones are made from cholesterol, and cholesterol is made from dietary carbohydrate via the liver, then in the physiological context, the only purpose of dietary SAFA like butter (i.e. cream, cheese, any milk/yogurt above skim) coconut, cocoa, and ruminant-intact meat fat, is to help replace/displace the ongoing unstoppable onslaught absorption of PUFA from whole foods.

DaveFoster said:
FOODS: SKIM MILK, OJ, GRAPE JUICE, other JUICES, occasional CANDY and HIGH-CARB FOODS, but NO ADDED FAT

There are no other "high carb" foods besides starch which you said you're not including in your experiment. Fruit, fruit juice, and non-milled-into-a-flour below ground vegetables are the only other high carb sources: potato, sweet potato, yam, taro, cassava , jerusalem artichoke, celeriac, salsify, and parsnip. Low nutrient sweeteners are cane sugar, coconut sugar, and maple syrup.

Why no raw carrot/bamboo shoot? No fiber and all liquid?

DaveFoster said:
CONSUME AT LEAST 150 g PROTEIN PER DAY

Unless you're getting most of that from gelatin then you will be having way too much arginine, methionine, cysteine, and tryptophan.

2 weeks or 31 days may be good for experiment but not for daily logical diet/lifestyle long term.
 
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DaveFoster

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@Charlie
I figured you'd appreciate it along my innuendos.
Westside PUFAs said:
Self experimentation is the best thing to do in the context of nutrition/health/fitness. But beware of conformation bias.

I'm similar to you in that I'm 5'10 1/2" and currently about 183. That puts us at about 25-30 pounds overweight. The extra body fat is going to have an impact on everything and it should not be ignored. Body temperature and pulse should be monitored but often times when overweight, body temp can be high due to stress hormones like adrenaline and not because of an increased metabolic rate.

This is a solid idea. I'll track my pulse and buy a thermometer.

Westside PUFAs said:
If protective steroid hormones are made from cholesterol, and cholesterol is made from dietary carbohydrate via the liver, then in the physiological context, the only purpose of dietary SAFA like butter (i.e. cream, cheese, any milk/yogurt above skim) coconut, cocoa, and ruminant-intact meat fat, is to help replace/displace the ongoing unstoppable onslaught absorption of PUFA from whole foods

Whoa, what? Carbohydrate + liver = cholesterol? Why have I NEVER heard of this! All those years in the Paleo community and no one mentions this. I've got some research to do.

Westside PUFAs said:
There are no other "high carb" foods besides starch which you said you're not including in your experiment. Why no raw carrot/bamboo shoot? No fiber and all liquid?
Fixed. One carrot per day; no starch besides this.


Westside PUFAs said:
Unless you're getting most of that from gelatin then you will be having way too much arginine, methionine, cysteine, and tryptophan.
Here's my brief knowledge of these:

Methionine - inflammatory
Cysteine - thyroid-suppressing
Tryptophan - thyroid-supressing + serotonin forming
Arginine - nitric oxide production ----> increased aging process (bodybuilders use this for vasodilatory properties however)

I do sometimes wonder about this. I need the protein for my workouts (.82 g/lb lean body mass), and I need the milk for its choline contents, mostly. Egg yolks are unacceptable for their PUFA content. I like to stray on the lower end of protein, so I will see about upping my fruit juice intake.
 
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15% of what? Is calorie tracking information available? It is the most important part.
 
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Such_Saturation said:
15% of what? Is calorie tracking information available? It is the most important part.
Under 15% total oral fat, as per the link provided in my bio at "Goals: (1)". This is to radically accelerate PUFA depletion. I use CRON-O-Meter for tracking, and I average about 2-6% fat per day, 20-30% protein, and 70-80% carbs; basically a fruitarian diet with higher protein.
 

marcar72

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DaveFoster said:
Westside PUFAs said:
If protective steroid hormones are made from cholesterol, and cholesterol is made from dietary carbohydrate via the liver, then in the physiological context, the only purpose of dietary SAFA like butter (i.e. cream, cheese, any milk/yogurt above skim) coconut, cocoa, and ruminant-intact meat fat, is to help replace/displace the ongoing unstoppable onslaught absorption of PUFA from whole foods

Whoa, what? Carbohydrate + liver = cholesterol? Why have I NEVER heard of this! All those years in the Paleo community and no one mentions this. I've got some research to do.

It would be Carbohydrate = SFA after conversion = cholesterol. Carbohydrates to my knowledge have to be turned into fat first, then cholesterol.

So consuming SFA itself lightens the load on one's liver since it won't have to do that carbohydrate/fat conversion first before making cholesterol. Also SFA tends to appear in unison with preformed cholesterol itself so even less work the liver has to do... :2cents

So getting adequate SFA (and intrinsically some cholesterol) in one's diet frees up the workload on the liver. This leaves the liver with more resources and time to focus on the other tasks it performs... :2cents
 
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So 2-6% of calories in the context of 150g of protein and 500g of sugars would be 6 to 18g of fat per day. Is this correct?
 
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DaveFoster

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marcar72 said:
It would be Carbohydrate = SFA after conversion = cholesterol. Carbohydrates to my knowledge have to be turned into fat first, then cholesterol.

So consuming SFA itself lightens the load on one's liver since it won't have to do that carbohydrate/fat conversion first before making cholesterol. Also SFA tends to appear in unison with preformed cholesterol itself so even less work the liver has to do... :2cents

So getting adequate SFA (and intrinsically some cholesterol) in one's diet frees up the workload on the liver. This leaves the liver with more resources and time to focus on the other tasks it performs... :2cents
This seems like the inverse of a zero-carb lifestyle, where the liver turns excess fatty acid or adipose into ketones, which powers the brain and muscles. Zero-fat will work and zero-carb will work, but most likely, neither is optimal.

Such_Saturation said:
So 2-6% of calories in the context of 150g of protein and 500g of sugars would be 6 to 18g of fat per day. Is this correct?
Correct; w/ around 1 g PUFA.
 

tara

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Maybe too much liquid making you cold?
I'm not surprised it's hard to get enough calories that way.
Consider condensed milk, homemade fresh farmers cheese, dates and/or other dried fruit if they agree with you, honey, etc for more density, and/or potatoes if you are not avoiding starch.
How about bringing your minimum target to somewhere over 3000kcal, amybe higher, since you are young, growing, and working out?
 
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DaveFoster

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tara said:
Maybe too much liquid making you cold?
I'm not surprised it's hard to get enough calories that way.
Consider condensed milk, homemade fresh farmers cheese, dates and/or other dried fruit if they agree with you, honey, etc for more density, and/or potatoes if you are not avoiding starch.
How about bringing your minimum target to somewhere over 3000kcal, amybe higher, since you are young, growing, and working out?

The liquids actually do not bother me as much, especially since I drink very concentrated OJ. As far as calories, I'm drinking anywhere between 2000-2500, but I figure you're right. I usually drink until I'm satieted along the day, so I don't really go any period where I can eat more. The cold mornings have been getting better.

DAY 13 Woke up feeling strangely energized, yet foggy (probably dopamine.) Drank a Monster, went to work and had a little chia tea when I got back. Did some bench press (2 sets), lateral raises (2 sets), and bicep curl (2 sets). Pretty uneventful day. My meals were pretty standard, although I did have some oysters, which helped my energy levels.

NOTES: Caffeine is definitely going to be part of my life, but I need to overcome insurmountable tolerance by cycling it. Dopamine is tricky, and I want the euphoria for my productivity.

DAY 14 (8/20/15) Woke up, drank a Monster, deadlifted (1 set), and went to work. I did not have enough caffeine in my system to increase sociability, so I had a cup of coffee, which amounts to quite a bit of caffeine (250 mg). Once I got over that mark, I felt pretty good. I drank nothing but OJ, GJ and chocolate skim milk for the day. I felt productive, and I began sweating throughout the day. Pulse is good (85).

NOTES: Not too much euphoria from caffeine, and I know I will have to stop this soon. My skin has stopped clearing up since introducing the caffeine, but it could be other factors. Nevertheless, I feel amazing on caffeine. I'm assertive, aggressive, forward, direct, motivated, energetic, social, verbal, kinesthetic (physical contact), and critical of things. I set boundaries and never downplay my emotions. I feel like a man. This is no doubt a combination of the raised dopamine, lowered prolactin, and lowered serotonin.

DAY 15 Woke up feeling weird; foggy and tired, but not too bad. I worked ALL day replacing the flooring in my house. I also bench pressed (2 sets), lateral raised (2 sets), and bicep curled (2 sets). I planned on going the whole day without caffeine, but my parents came home with coffee drinks, and I had part of one, so maybe 50 mg of caffeine, which did not affect me. I made a huge mistake later in the day. Even though I drank my milk and OJ, I left to go to Taco Bell and had four Doritos Los Tacos w/ over 15 g PUFA for the day! This was absolutely unacceptable, and I'm beating myself up for this. Took some phenibut (500 mg), and I was out like a light. The salt from the tacos definitely helped me relax almost the point of euphoria.

NOTES: Salt is so important. I'm so angry at myself for messing up like this. Oddly enough, if I had caffeine, I probably would have better self-control. I've struggled with ADD, autistic/impulsive behavior, and emotional sensitivity my entire life, and it's just now trying to subside. I've tried nootropics to solve the issue, but these have problems of their own. I'm going to destroy serotonin, prolactin, and estrogen. I'm tired of feeling held back and reactive. This experiment will go on a bit longer than I originally planned.

DAY 16 Woke up surprisingly okay, despite no caffeine and heavy PUFA from the night before; in fact, no withdrawal at all or lethargy. Maybe the Vitamin E from EstroBan helped buffer the effects of the PUFA, or maybe acute damage is not noticeably when compared to cumulative PUFA. Worked for a couple hours, did some deadlifts (1 set), and then went to my job and worked an extremely busy dinner shift. A lot of mistakes were made by a lot of people, including myself, and my mood was very poor after this. Nonetheless, one thing to note is that I used to react much more strongly to these types of situations, as I believed I had borderline personality disorder, but now this does not seem to be the case. I'm healthily detached from drama, so +1 for Ray Peat and his anti-serotonin protocol. I also had more energy during my shift, and even though I underwent a stress response and did not eat, I felt more grounded. I also took some l-theanine before work (300 mg), which contributed. All I drank was OJ, GJ, AJ, and skim milk, as I'm continuing to be strict on my regime. I slept without a problem.

NOTES: Ordered some niacinamide. Aspirin gives me trouble, so I'm going to get some a VERY SLOWLY titrate up from 50 mg/ed. If haidut is correct, high doses of niacinamide will obliterate serotonin, so this is the first step, but I will be careful and titrate the dose.

DAY 17 Woke up feeling groggy, as if I hadn't gotten enough salt the night before. Drank a Monster (my last one). My weight seems to be oscilating, as today I appeared slimmer, but it likely is an increase in muscle; having great results from my high-frequency routine. Did some bench press (2 sets), lateral raises (2 sets), and bicep curl (2 sets). PRed on bench, but stalling on the other 2. I worked for a long shift, but took some l-theanine beforehand (500 mg), and I focused on staying calm throughout the shift, and I felt fantastic. I missed my sleep window and fell asleep late with carrot bits in my mouth. I only ate about 1800 calories today.

NOTES: I did not eat enough calories, and it affected me the following day with high estrogen/serotonin levels. I can't wait to try the niacinamide and see any positive benefit. I'm also researching a post by haidut about blocking tryptophan metabolism using BCAAs., and I'm curious to try this.

DAY 18 Woke up feeling tired and hypoglycemic. I had dreams about eating whole sticks of butter. No morning wood and no libido. High serotonin, high estrogen, and high irritability. I drank three large containers of OJ throughout the day (2400 calories) and gallon of skim milk (1200 calories), so my serotonin (along with a migraine) is mostly gone. I drank a little bit of coffee w/ caffeine (40 mg) later on in the day, and I worked outside after doing some deadlifts (1 set). I went to bed late without any supplements. Pulse is medium-high (80).

NOTES: I ordered some BCAA, l-tyrosine, and taurine powders. I will experiment with these after the niacinamide.

DAY 19 Woke up feeling a bit foggy, so I took a caffeine pill + a little coffee (120 mg caffeine). I bench pressed (2 sets), lateral raised (2 sets), and bicep curled (2 sets). I also dosed some l-theanine (500 mg), and I left for work. During work, I focused on slowing my breathing and preventing a stress response. I successfully did so, even in the presence of a stressful situation, and I felt great until around 4:00 PM, where my blood sugar dropped a bit. I drank some milk, sugar, and cocoa, which helped. I drank about 3000 calories today, and I stayed up late, where I was very hot. I took some phenibut (500 mg) and went to bed.

NOTES: I'm wondering when my thermometer will arrive, and I'm still curious to try the niacinamide. I'm starting to eat one carrot in the morning and one right before bed, which really helps with my mood. I think I'm going to regularly dose l-theanine before work from now on.


DAY 20 Woke up feeling tired from the late night, so I had a cup of coffee (100 mg caffeine). Did some deadlifts (1 set) and drank quite a bit of milk with OJ. I felt great before hand, but after drinking the milk, I felt tired. I probably shut off a stress reaction.
 

tara

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DaveFoster said:
tara said:
Maybe too much liquid making you cold?
I'm not surprised it's hard to get enough calories that way.
Consider condensed milk, homemade fresh farmers cheese, dates and/or other dried fruit if they agree with you, honey, etc for more density, and/or potatoes if you are not avoiding starch.
How about bringing your minimum target to somewhere over 3000kcal, amybe higher, since you are young, growing, and working out?

The liquids actually do not bother me as much, especially since I drink very concentrated OJ. As far as calories, I'm drinking anywhere between 2000-2500, but I figure you're right. I usually drink until I'm satieted along the day, so I don't really go any period where I can eat more. The cold mornings have been getting better.

Sometimes people feel good for a while running on an energy deficit. I would caution against running this kind of deficit for long, especially at an age where your body would ideally still be growing and maturing. There are a number of potential negative consequences from chronic undereating.
 

Giraffe

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DaveFoster said:
I'm craving oysters, and I need to a find a way to add more salt into my diet, as drinking it straight is unappealing.
Sliced potatoes fried in 1 tsp coconut oil work fine as a carrier for salt.
 
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DaveFoster

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tara said:
Sometimes people feel good for a while running on an energy deficit. I would caution against running this kind of deficit for long, especially at an age where your body would ideally still be growing and maturing. There are a number of potential negative consequences from chronic undereating.

No worries, I'm definitely not in a deficit at this point. I'm slowly getting fatter and more muscular.

Giraffe said:
DaveFoster said:
I'm craving oysters, and I need to a find a way to add more salt into my diet, as drinking it straight is unappealing.
Sliced potatoes fried in 1 tsp coconut oil work fine as a carrier for salt.

Definitely my favorite option, so I may include a little bit of starch for this. I got some oysters, so I'll make oyster stew and heavily salt.
 

tara

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DaveFoster said:
tara said:
Sometimes people feel good for a while running on an energy deficit. I would caution against running this kind of deficit for long, especially at an age where your body would ideally still be growing and maturing. There are a number of potential negative consequences from chronic undereating.

No worries, I'm definitely not in a deficit at this point. I'm slowly getting fatter and more muscular.

I make a distinction between an energy deficit with respect to what it would take to grow and run a healthy metabolism, and a deficit with respect to what may currently be suboptimal. I am partly informed by information on youreatopia, which points out that the average non-dieting adult man eats about 3000 cals, and under 25yrs, while still growing and maturing, somethnig like 3500 may be required (or much more at times for people who are recovering from severe undereating, but I'm not assuming this is you). Less than 2500 cals is probably not enough for most young men to grow to full maturity and to run a healthy metabolism. If you gain fat on less than 2500 cals, that seems likely to me to be either or both of: your body actually needs a bit more fat and it's just catching up and/or your base metabolism is low. So from my PoV, you may be eating enough to maintain your current weight/fat mass, but you are likely also trying to run on an energy deficit of about 1000 cals wrt what your body would need to grow and be optimally healthy in the long run.

There are different opinions on this in this forum. Some people recommend eating no more than your current metabolism can use without gaining fat, and employing various strategies to raise metabolism (eg avoiding PUFA, attending to micronutrients, and in some cases supplementing thyroid or using outher substances to stimulate increased metabolism), and gradually increasing food intake in step with the rising metabolism.
I'm not certain that there is perfect optimal approach to this for everyone, but I'm fairly confident that it is useful to aim for a higher calorie intake, whether quickly or slowly. Famine or chronic under-eating can be one cause of reduced metabolism - the body downregulates so as not to be forced to burn off it's protein too fast. If this is the cause of the reduced metabolism, I would not expect to be able to recover without signalling the body that the famine is over by eating more again. I speculate that if other factors are the key causes, then this strategy may not be so helpful.

For young men and women who have not yet fully matured (up to about 25), eating too little can interfere with growth and development. Undereating at this stage can be very counterproductive.

DaveFoster said:
Giraffe said:
DaveFoster said:
I'm craving oysters, and I need to a find a way to add more salt into my diet, as drinking it straight is unappealing.
Sliced potatoes fried in 1 tsp coconut oil work fine as a carrier for salt.

Definitely my favorite option, so I may include a little bit of starch for this. I got some oysters, so I'll make oyster stew and heavily salt.
Yum to both potato chips and oyster stew. :)
 
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DaveFoster

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DAY 20 Woke up feeling tired from the late night, so I had a cup of coffee (100 mg caffeine). Did some deadlifts (1 set), drank some milk and OJ, and just relaxed for the day. Pulse is normal (75).

NOTES: I'm almost out of EstroBan, and I had a thought about weight-loss. After completing my experiment, I may merely add in copious amounts of coconut oil, increasing the dose every week, and observe an changes on body composition.

DAY 21 (8/27/15) Woke up, popped 300 mg worth of caffeine, drank about 3 cups of milk and OJ to offset the stress response, did some bench press, lateral raises, and bicep curls (2 sets). Went off to work after taking some l-theanine (300 mg). I enjoyed work that day, came home, and relaxed, although my appetite was lower than normal. I played some board games, and I noticed some hyper-competitiveness against my friends, along with an extremely high body temperature. I had trouble sleeping, even with phenibut (500 mg). Pulse is high (85).

NOTES: I hope I build a tolerance to caffeine's effects on sleep, but I am enjoying it's metabolic effects.

DAY 22 Woke up feeling like an insomniac, so I popped 200 mg of caffeine. Did some deadlifts (1 set) and drank quite a bit of milk with OJ. I felt great before hand, but after drinking the milk, I felt tired. I probably shut off a stress reaction. I felt great before hand, but after drinking the milk, I felt tired. I probably shut off a stress reaction. I took a hot Epsom salt bath and felt better, after which I left for work after taking some l-theanine (300 mg). I worked a shift, got home, and finished up my milk and OJ for the day. I ate a moderate amount and felt okay. I had no trouble going to sleep, so I did not supplement. Pulse is okay (80).

NOTES: I feel as if serotonin is lower than normal, as is estrogen. I continue to eat my carrots. I found out that my mother died, and I was not emotionally affected whatsoever, so I definitely believe there to be a connection between serotonin and emotional vulnerability, as I usually would have responded. I'm still very curious to try niacinamide, BCAA's, tyrosine, taurine, and aspirin.

DAY 23 Woke up feeling a little too calm than I liked. I decided that it was time to start experimenting with caffeine, so I popped a 200 mg tablet, did some bench press, lateral raises, and bicep curls (all 2 sets each,) and went to work after taking some l-theanine (300 mg). I noticed that the caffeine gave me energy and improved my sociability. I continued to drink copious amounts of coffee throughout my shift mixed with plenty of milk, and I ended up with an extra 200 mg of caffeine. On my walk home, I noticed that my vision was clearer and my mood was fantastic, which is definitely due to caffeine's strong suppression of serotonin. When I got home, I popped a 100 mg tablet around 5:00 PM, and I drank about 3000 more calories of OJ. I was sweating and burning up, and I felt amazing. I stayed up until 2:00 AM in this state, and I barely was able to fall asleep even with the help of a 35 mg dose of diphenhydramine, l-theanine (300 mg), and phenibut (500 mg). Pulse is 100.

NOTES: I've been researching on the affects of caffeine on sleep quality, and I'm sure that this is not the desired route, and I must find other methods of achieving caffeine's effects on metabolism as an uncoupler, as well as on mood by a serotonin antagonist. I may still use caffeine as a ergogenic for weight training, however. Aspirin presents a similar problem for reducing sleep quality, which isn't to mention it's negative gastrointestinal effects on my body every time I use it. Niacinamide, on the contrary, enhances sleep quality, so I think I will rely on this, as well as manipulating the amino acid ratios of my milk through the addition of BCAA's and tyrosine in order to block the synthesis of serotonin, which would mean I would never need a serotonin antagonist in the first place. I've been looking into uncouplers for cellular metabolism, and I'm incredibly interested in DNP, as well as methylene blue, but these are lower on my priorities. I'm also interested in red light. Lastly, my hands are drying and beginning to peel, so it may be time to look towards the addition of coconut oil.

DAY 24 Woke up late in the day and had some caffeine (75 mg). I feel tired and groggy, and my acne is flaring up. I'm also feeling kind of spacey and anxious for no reason, but I'm easily mediating this with extra l-theanine (500 mg) and deep-breathing for CO2. I did some bench press, lateral raises, and bicep curl (2 sets each), and went to work, where I felt generally average, but better than before the experiment, so average is a moot point. I was not particularly social, but I also had less anxiety than before Peating. Nevertheless, I did not feel 100% and I have a little shoulder pain, which I'm sure is from working and benching too often. The lack of fats in my diet may have played a role in increasing systemic inflammation, but I cannot say. I'm beginning to develop a strong craving for fat and salt, but moreso fat. I had a little bit of cheese and ice cream; not much, but enough for taste. Immediately I felt an almost euphoric feeling of relaxation throughout my body, which is akin to eating after multiple days of fasting. Likely due to my high caffeine experimentation, my sleep schedule is off, and I have a case of delayed sleep phase disorder. I went to bed late again, with phenibut (500 mg). My pulse was average (80).

NOTES: I will lay off working out for a while and see what happens to my shoulder, and I may start raising my dietary fat consumption soon.

DAY 25 I woke up later in the day and I was groggy, but I only had a little bit of caffeine (75 mg), and I left for work. I worked quite well, but tried to relax the entire time, but the business prevented this. I've added a bit of salt and sugar to my milk, which seems to help keep my temperature up. After working, I got home and did not have a whole lot of motivation to do anything, so I just relaxed and got tired around 9:00 PM, but not tired enough to go to sleep. I got a strong craving for starch and fat, probably to mitigate the stress response, so I had some melted cheese on refried beans. This made me sensitive, angry, and generally unsocial, and I'm sure it was the beans. I stayed awake until 12:00 PM,at which time I took a high dose of diphenhydramine (50 mg) and some phenibut (500), along with some l-theanine (600 mg) in an attempt to knock myself out. This was all to no avail, and I did not end up sleeping until 1:30 AM, and what helped me pass out was bag breathing, which surprisingly worked almost immediately. It was amazing! I went from irritable, anxious, and incredibly aggressive to docile and sedated in about the span of 3 minutes. I slept until noon the next day.

NOTES: I really underestimated the power of deep breathing/bag breathing. I used to practice meditation, but I gradually lost the habit, so I believe the real key here is to practice deep breathing periodically through the day (no need for long meditation sessions with closed eyes and palms). I haven't had the opportunity to go the mail yet, so I have not received any of my orders.

DAY 26 Waking up at noon, I was already late for work, which was quite stressful. I quickly stomped the stress respone with l-theanine (300 mg), got to work, mixed some coffee with milk, and sipped on this, which made me warm, alert, and calm. I kept my deep breathing up, and this continued to keep me calm, although there was a period where I experienced some stress. I had some strong cravings for fat, along with some sensitive teeth, and this, along with the fact that I'm temporarily out of EstroBan, convinced me to add some fat into my diet. I had half of a French dip, which had some cheese spread, roast beef, and wheat bread. Normally, I would view this as unacceptable, but I had such a strong craving that the desire to eat was almost a craze. I felt good after eating, but immediately after this I felt tired and unmotivated, undoubtedly due to the bread. I got home, and I had some doses of milk with 2 TBSP of coconut oil in each, which helped boost my temps like no other. I feel pretty good, alert, motivated, and this is the time at which I will start to add coconut oil back in and view it's affects. I got some niacinamide, and I dosed 500 mg, which left me feeling very sedated, which hopefully will help reset my circadian rhythm.

NOTES: I feel good. My shoulder is beginning to increasingly become inflamed, regardless of my workout activities, so I'm sure it's the chronic stress from working too much. I purchased some DMSO to put on my shoulder, and I'll see how it goes.

FINAL UPDATE I have decided to end my low-fat experiment here. I am introducing coconut oil, and while I still may go certain without fat, I feel that 1% milk will allow me to up my caloric intake, which has been a major problem on this diet. I may even mix coconut oil with my milk to mimic the fat naturally found in the milk. Nonetheless, I will log my progress in my own time with irregular updates, and I may make a future thread that covers some things that are personally helpful to me.

At this time, I'm experimenting with BCAA's, l-tyrosine, taurine, and niacinamide. BCAA's and l-tyrosine, despite their horrid flavor, tend to give me an energy boost and clearer vision, which is undoubtedly due to tryptophan depletion (thank you haidut). I've only just started taurine, so it's hard to tell what the effects are, but it seems to lower the adrenaline response, as previously commented on by Charlie. I'm trying to maintain a temperature above 37.0 degrees C, or 98.6 degrees F at all times. I'm going to push my calories up very high for a period of time, as I do not really care about weight gain at this point. As for niacinamide, the dosing seems quite tricky, but I will continue titrating up to 3 g per day, as this dose affects serotonin in a favorable way. At this time, I only hope my bursitis subsides, and that it has not been caused by my experiment and its lack of saturated fat.

On another point, a lowered level of serotonin has greatly reduced my anxiety, and over time, this effect will predictably compound itself. I will like to reiterate my appreciation of Peat's unifying theory of biological life, and how it all seems to logically mesh into an understandable prism of perception. Within this prism, there exists a strong duality of life and death; with life being the thyroid, energy abundance, growth and maturation, regeneration, and anabolism, and with death being the stress-response with its accompanying catabolic actions from the pituitary and adrenal glands.

Lastly, I'd like to to touch upon the misunderstanding of myopia, and how the conventional wisdom, which relies on the placement of blame upon an excessivity of bookwork, or worse yet, genetics, is flawed. Through the reduction in serotonin, which I predict is solely the cause for these effects, I have acheived 20/50, or even 20/40 vision, with periods of 20/20, although these are still fleeting. Previously, my vision hovered around 20/100 and progressively worsened over time, but my dietary practices have effectively stopped and reversed this condition. Thank you Dr. Peat, and thank you to all who have provided advice, particularly haidut, who has dedicated so much of his time into acquiring new knowledge and sharing it with the community on this board, and from which I have personally benefited to a great degree.
 

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pboy

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tara, a lot has to do with calorie requirements. Many people eat more calories than is necessary because the inefficiency of their diet...ie, the more pure and digestible the food you eat is, the more net energy you get out of it. Eating common foods and combos, quality, people do, a lot of the food makes it into their vat without actually providing brain or other bodily energy. Where as if you ate all fruit juice as an example almost all of it is 100% utilized. Also, a lot of fat people eat isn't absorbed, it forms complexes in the gut and is excreted the next day...so naturally the less fat you eat, the more efficient your calories are, and the less you'll need. Its not a simple thing to just say calories eaten are calories available. When I switched from whole to lowfat milk a while back, consuming the same volume and rest of my diet, my energy levels stayed exactly the same, and this was during the winter so I could easily monitor heat production. I went from needing like 2800-2900 to about 2200 a day, simply cutting out the fat didn't do anything to energy levels or heat, and my stool size significantly decreased, so it was obvious that fat was not being used for calories (or very little of it at best) and the majority was forming complexes with calcium or magnesium and being excreted out. So when it comes to calorie needs of a person, it depends on the effieciency of what they are eating, and the only real way to tell is do you feel adequately nourished, and wake up not in a totally famished state. Also, the more dopamine and positive hormones you have, which could just be based on if you are having a great day or not, rather than a stressed day, changes efficiency of your metabolism...so on certain days you might need more or less. Calories should really come in by perceived need. Even Peat acknowledges that eating when you aren't hungry causes a stress reaction in the stomach,. I know its hard for a lot of people to really be aware of true hunger because a lot of times stress signals throw this off, and then also a lot of people have the mentaility that cutting calories is a good thing and try to kind of prolong or ignore cues to eat. Definitely a slight abundance is way better than a slight deficiency. Just as an example though, if I was to take in 3500 calories of what I'm currently consuming, id be more sedate and slow than I am now because id be extremely full all the time, and have to spend like 4 hours just dealing with food a day and it would be unpleasant...this is because its a very low fat diet, mostly. A slight abundance is nice though, on a relaxing day when I have the time...no doubt i'll feel a lil better going into sleep that night, but only a little abundance, not at the cost of averting other stresses, and only the same efficient calorie sources
 

Nicholas

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pboy said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96589/ Many people eat more calories than is necessary because the inefficiency of their diet...ie, the more pure and digestible the food you eat is, the more net energy you get out of it.

i love smoothies for this reason. this is so true about the efficiency aspect of diet. food timing/regularity is very important for encouraging efficiency. like keeping a hand-cranked machine (or IV drip?) at a steady crank prevents hiccups in the system. this steady supply seems to have a programming effect on the body.....whereas if you took the same foods, same calories, same macros, etc. and introduced them to the body in unpredictable, unstable ways...the same exact stuff is not digested the same way. i think this is the true answer to the big microbiome question. healthy bowel movements have more to do with the regularity of your food supply than the actual food itself.
 
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