High fat / moderate carb experiment

michael94

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Can eating sugar/glucose to maintain optimal liver/muscle glycogen levels while using saturated fat ( mostly coconut oil ) as a primary fuel source be done in good health? That's what I'm going to be testing out. However it ends up it will be a useful data point hopefully.


I'll be logging the food I eat, total cals, and how I feel throughout the day. The aim is for ~150-200g carb and ~3000-3500 total cals daily. I've no access to a gym atm so that should be enough carbs to maintain glycogen levels but if I'm craving more I wont restrict myself.
 

James IV

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Not to sound dismissive, but how you feel is hardly an indicator of whether your diet is healthy, long term. I don't think I am alone when I say that Ive felt great on a low carb, even a ketoginic diet... Until I didn't feel great anymore.
 

milk_lover

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High fat might impair your sugar metabolism. Maybe try to consume sugars away from fat?
 

milk_lover

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Do you think this diet can be maintained for a long time everywhere you go? I personally do not enjoy eating coconut oil. I've always thought of it as a food supplement.
 

YuraCZ

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High fat low carb diet slows down metabolism, digestion and also this diet will decrease conversion of T4 to T3. So for example for hypometabolic people with constipation it's worst type of diet which you can choose.. But it's good in survival situations. Where you must almost hibernate to save energy..
 

michael94

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milk_lover said:
post 109752 Do you think this diet can be maintained for a long time everywhere you go? I personally do not enjoy eating coconut oil. I've always thought of it as a food supplement.


I have 0 idea...that's why I labeled it an experiment, lol. Going to be taking the coconut oil with coffee/sugar and as an add in to ice cream for now. I need to work my way up to eating more with other recipes eventually.

YuraCZ said:
post 109758 High fat low carb diet slows down metabolism, digestion and also this diet will decrease conversion of T4 to T3. So for example for hypometabolic people with constipation it's worst type of diet which you can choose.. But it's good in survival situations. Where you must almost hibernate to save energy..


We shall see, I dont think you're wrong but I think there is a big diff between low carb and eating enough carbs to constantly having glycogen levels topped off. One of the goals low carbers have is to get liver glycogen depleted off the bat. Like the title says...moderate carb, not low carb. Also, coconut oil should be superior to the sat fat/mufa/pufa mix that most low carbers do!

James IV said:
post 109742 Not to sound dismissive, but how you feel is hardly an indicator of whether your diet is healthy, long term. I don't think I am alone when I say that Ive felt great on a low carb, even a ketoginic diet... Until I didn't feel great anymore.


noted that's a fair point but read my response above
 
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James IV

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May I ask how you concluded that that particular intake of carbs is going to keep your glycogen "topped off?" I think you are highly underestimating the amount of glycogen a healthy person will burn through in a day. Now if youre trying to run on "economy mode," by forcing the body to use more fatty acids and ketones as fuel, then that's a different story. However, I guess that depends on what you consider "healthy."

For the record. I've done your experiment. I don't do it anymore. That's my data point.
 

Giraffe

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icecreamlover said:
post 109740 Can eating sugar/glucose to maintain optimal liver/muscle glycogen levels while using saturated fat ( mostly coconut oil ) as a primary fuel source be done in good health? That's what I'm going to be testing out. However it ends up it will be a useful data point hopefully.
What is the purpose of this experiment?
 
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michael94

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Day 1

On standard peat eating I feel pretty good but not amazing

Today I felt a little worse, probably a 4/10

I had a bit of a headache I think from so much coconut oil plus it made me a little nauseous but overall not too bad. I'll also add I felt VERY WARM, which is generally a good sign but I was hot at work and slightly uncomfortable.

I find myself craving sugar now at the end of the day and am currently polishing off a carton of OJ lol, very satisfying

Today I ate:

~1200 cals from coconut oil throughout the day ( coffee, cooking meat, mixing in ice cream )
~300 cal of lean beef ~100 cal of beef fat attached
~400 cals sucrose with my coffee
~1750 cal of big haagen dazs coffee flavor, 140g sugar and 119g fat
~300 cals worth of gelatin powder
~770 cals of OJ (entire carton ) 189g sugar

429g carbs from sugar...and around 4700 cals

Ate way more sugar than I was shooting for but as I said I'm not restricting any major cravings

Let's see how tomorrow goes



Peata said:
post 109858 How much fat are you talking daily?


Today worked out to just over 250g fat
 
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michael94

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Giraffe said:
post 109854
icecreamlover said:
post 109740 Can eating sugar/glucose to maintain optimal liver/muscle glycogen levels while using saturated fat ( mostly coconut oil ) as a primary fuel source be done in good health? That's what I'm going to be testing out. However it ends up it will be a useful data point hopefully.
What is the purpose of this experiment?

good question...probably impatience if I were to be honest. I've only been following dr. peats recommendations for about 2 months now
 
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EIRE24

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James IV said:
post 109844 May I ask how you concluded that that particular intake of carbs is going to keep your glycogen "topped off?" I think you are highly underestimating the amount of glycogen a healthy person will burn through in a day. Now if youre trying to run on "economy mode," by forcing the body to use more fatty acids and ketones as fuel, then that's a different story. However, I guess that depends on what you consider "healthy."

For the record. I've done your experiment. I don't do it anymore. That's my data point.

James,

Sorry for going off topic OP but, could running on ketones and fatty acids cause something like acne from the body being in economy mode as you called it?
 
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EIRE24

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icecreamlover said:
post 109875 Day 1

On standard peat eating I feel pretty good but not amazing

Today I felt a little worse, probably a 4/10

I had a bit of a headache I think from so much coconut oil plus it made me a little nauseous but overall not too bad. I'll also add I felt VERY WARM, which is generally a good sign but I was hot at work and slightly uncomfortable.

I find myself craving sugar now at the end of the day and am currently polishing off a carton of OJ lol, very satisfying

Today I ate:

~1200 cals from coconut oil throughout the day ( coffee, cooking meat, mixing in ice cream )
~300 cal of lean beef ~100 cal of beef fat attached
~400 cals sucrose with my coffee
~1750 cal of big haagen dazs coffee flavor, 140g sugar and 119g fat
~300 cals worth of gelatin powder
~770 cals of OJ (entire carton ) 189g sugar

429g carbs from sugar...and around 4700 cals

Ate way more sugar than I was shooting for but as I said I'm not restricting any major cravings

Let's see how tomorrow goes



Peata said:
post 109858 How much fat are you talking daily?


Today worked out to just over 250g fat

What is your height and weight?
 
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michael94

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EIRE24 said:
post 109905

What is your height and weight?


5 10 180lb body fat im not sure, maybe 12%



Going to be shooting to cut way down on the butter fat and eat more coconut oil today. Also going to shop after work and picking up some vit. E and taurine! Aside from that only supp I'm taking atm is a vit d/calcium combo unless you consider gelatin powder a supplement. I have some oxidal but I figured that's a much bigger variable to throw in so going to hold off for now
 
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EIRE24

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icecreamlover said:
post 109918
EIRE24 said:
post 109905

What is your height and weight?


5 10 180lb body fat im not sure, maybe 12%



Going to be shooting for less butter fat and more coconut oil today. Also going to shop after work and picking up some vit. E and taurine! Aside from that only supp I'm taking atm is a vit d/calcium combo unless you consider gelatin powder a supplement. I have some oxidal but I figured that's a much bigger variable to throw in and am going to hold off on that...

That's a low body weight for consuming that amount of calories. Have you always consumed that amount?
 
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michael94

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EIRE24 said:
post 109921
icecreamlover said:
post 109918
EIRE24 said:
post 109905

What is your height and weight?


5 10 180lb body fat im not sure, maybe 12%



Going to be shooting for less butter fat and more coconut oil today. Also going to shop after work and picking up some vit. E and taurine! Aside from that only supp I'm taking atm is a vit d/calcium combo unless you consider gelatin powder a supplement. I have some oxidal but I figured that's a much bigger variable to throw in and am going to hold off on that...

That's a low body weight for consuming that amount of calories. Have you always consumed that amount?


I don't think so, I have a lot of lbm relative to my weight and am on my feet all day at work with some moderate lifting of things here and there. Back when I was at a desk all day it would definitely be too much, I usually eat around 3.5-4.5k depending on how im feeling.


Day 2

Today was interesting. I could only get down the same 1200 cals worth of coconut oil. I tried to do more but bleh, my body was rejecting it. Had basically no other fats today. Drank a lot of skim milk and orange juice and potato fries bake in the oven. Aside from the slight nausea from trying to get down more coc. oil I would say I felt really good today. 7/10 most of day and 4/10 at certain times, 6/10 overall.

Total cals was like 4.1k I think...didn't track super closely and as you can see that was a lot of carbs, more in line with standard peat eating. Gonna play the next few days by ear but subbing in coc. oil for butterfat seems to have allowed me to start processing carbs a bit better in large quantities, which usually felt suboptimal unless I was depleting glycogen through lifting prior. Got some vitamin e and taurine just now and will take a dose of each and continue in the next days.
 
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James IV

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EIRE24 said:
James IV said:
post 109844 May I ask how you concluded that that particular intake of carbs is going to keep your glycogen "topped off?" I think you are highly underestimating the amount of glycogen a healthy person will burn through in a day. Now if youre trying to run on "economy mode," by forcing the body to use more fatty acids and ketones as fuel, then that's a different story. However, I guess that depends on what you consider "healthy."

For the record. I've done your experiment. I don't do it anymore. That's my data point.

James,

Sorry for going off topic OP but, could running on ketones and fatty acids cause something like acne from the body being in economy mode as you called it?

Probably not directly. Unless the fat youre ingesting is throwing off your vitamin A/D ratios, which may cause the skin not to "shed" properly. But more likely, acne is probably down to hormonal imbalance. Which can be caused by many things. But working on your metabolism will lead to a healthier hormone profile. It's all related.
 
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James IV

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6/10 is really good? Dang man, you have low standards. ;)
 

michael94

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James IV said:
post 110026 6/10 is really good? Dang man, you have low standards. ;)


Thanks lad



Day 3 & 4 were the same

kept around 1k cals of coconut oil ( basically no other fat ) and 3kish worth of some protein and lots and lots of carbs

Ray peat forum right again, I feel much better on this and I do think the vitamin e and taurine are having a substantial effect. I'll continue logging even though I'm not doing what I said in the op because it should be useful to myself/others. Still holding the oxidal for a later date, maybe next monday would be a good time to add.



7/10 overall these days
 
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