Overheard In Whole Foods

[Strongbad]

Ah, I thought in one of my other threads you said you were on a very low fat diet? Oh well, whatever works ey :) and I understand what you mean by the "focus" thing, when I went low carb before at work for a few days I couldn't even make phonecalls I was so fuzzed out!

Yeah, I tried everything under the sun. Low carb, high carb, very low fat everything. Including lots of OJ and milk and gelatin diet thing.

I think the biggest eyeopener for me was witnessing and experiencing the Southeast Asian diet last christmas. They consume relatively balanced diet. Not too much fat, not too much carb, enough cooked green vegetables and occasional fruits for small snacks. Their diet is very balanced, and the elders have long livespan in great health. And they don't know anything about cronometer and its calories requirement. They eat when they feel like eating and stop when they have enough.

Funny how everything goes back in circle.

 

[onioneyedox]

Yes people feel good on different levels of carbs, mainly I think too low to your current context is bad. And way thinking that sugar/carbs are the root of evil is problematic. Maybe there are people who feel good (long term) even on really low carb (<100g), though I think most are better on 20% minimum (perfect health diet style?).

 

[CoolTweetPete]

Funny I always see and hear people talking about sugar causing inflammation, and no one seems to be able to provide a mechanism for how that happens. They really just parrot each other on the subject.

 

[Emstar1892]

Yeah, I mean high blood sugar is inflammatory for a number of reasons, but that's not BECAUSE of sugar. In fact (as I'm sure is the case universally) my highest blood sugars are always when I've had carbs mixed with fats, and not only that, but also the high lasts so much longer!

And I do best on 75% carbs these days. But for me it's mainly starch, so that's probably very different to most people here!

 

[Strongbad]

Yes people feel good on different levels of carbs, mainly I think too low to your current context is bad. And way thinking that sugar/carbs are the root of evil is problematic. Maybe there are people who feel good (long term) even on really low carb (<100g), though I think most are better on 20% minimum (perfect health diet style?).

Who knows, that's why everyone's carb sweet spot level is different. I experimented with it and found that 20% fits the minimum carb requirement for myself. Yours might be different.

One big downside with high carb is weight gain. I gained 32lbs from 160lbs to 192lbs within 6 months of Peating. If there's anything good out of low-carbing is weight loss, but at the expense of metabolism and vitality.

So there's gotta be a sweet spot somewhere where you can enjoy both weight loss and high metabolism at the same time. And that sweet spot is different on every person.

And I do well on brown rice amongst all carbs, even white rice and fruits. I know Peat is not a fan of brown rice, but brown rice has low glycemic index and it's rich in vitamin Bs which rice and potatoes lack.

BTW, there's a HUGE difference between 50% meat and 50% fat. I specifically refer to 50% meat, since it has adequate quantity of fat and protein along with the beneficial amino acids for liver, gut and kidney. And when I mean meat I mean organ meat like beef liver, heart, shank, tongue, oxtail etc.

 

[Emstar1892]

Interesting, Strongbad! I've only ever lost weight with high carb, but then I did have one stint where I was very high fruit, and my weight ballooned like crazy!

 

[Suikerbuik]

Funny I always see and hear people talking about sugar causing inflammation, and no one seems to be able to provide a mechanism for how that happens. They really just parrot each other on the subject.

Look at advanced glycation end products, lactic acid, pip3/pi3k, for example -- not saying sugar is to be avoided but if you can't process it properly, as with fat and protein, it does lead to inflammation.

 

[Suikerbuik]

But it is indeed sad to see how many people are brainwashed these days; even scientists, chemistry and biochemistry teachers/professors seem off.

 

[jaa]

Yeah, I tried everything under the sun. Low carb, high carb, very low fat everything. Including lots of OJ and milk and gelatin diet thing.

I think the biggest eyeopener for me was witnessing and experiencing the Southeast Asian diet last christmas. They consume relatively balanced diet. Not too much fat, not too much carb, enough cooked green vegetables and occasional fruits for small snacks. Their diet is very balanced, and the elders have long livespan in great health. And they don't know anything about cronometer and its calories requirement. They eat when they feel like eating and stop when they have enough.

Funny how everything goes back in circle.

I lived in Thailand for a few years and was amazed at how healthy the locals looked even though they drank like fish. Very lean, happy people with great skin. It's amazing what living in a place with fresh mango and sticky rice covered in sweetened condensed milk can do for your health

 

[Emstar1892]

I lived in Thailand for a few years and was amazed at how healthy the locals looked even though they drank like fish. Very lean, happy people with great skin. It's amazing what living in a place with fresh mango and sticky rice covered in sweetened condensed milk can do for your health

Haha yeah I lived in Costa Rica, and the people I stayed with looked like Adam and Eve. They lived on a beautiful permaculture farm (garden of Eden haha!) Every meal was rice and root vegetables from the farm, everyone was just beauuuuutiful. Aah. Mangos would fall at your feet in the mornings from the trees :'( why do I live in England!

 

[tara]

Funny I always see and hear people talking about sugar causing inflammation, and no one seems to be able to provide a mechanism for how that happens.

Maybe experience supports this view for them. Maybe being starved of carbs for an extended period predisposes one to some of the same issues as refeeding after prolonged severe calorie restriction - which seems to often involve inflammation. I don't know if that is avoidable or not.

 

[whit]

Peat describes it as the randall syndrome. I believe it's on his sugar 1 interview on YouTube.
One of my favorites.

 

[DaveFoster]

Funny I always see and hear people talking about sugar causing inflammation, and no one seems to be able to provide a mechanism for how that happens. They really just parrot each other on the subject.

It's usually sugar raises insulin ----> insulin promotes obesity -----> obesity correlates with disease.

It's pretty over-simplified.

 

[Brian]

It's usually sugar raises insulin ----> insulin promotes obesity -----> obesity correlates with disease.

It's pretty over-simplified.

Another route that sucrose/fructose can cause inflammation and other issues is if the liver can't process it because of fatty liver or free fatty acids, especially PUFA. It's a real concern, but the solution that is never talked about in the mainstream is to decrease PUFA intake and heal the liver. I also suspect that a hypothyroid liver is incapable of processing fructose regardless.

 

[whit]

Sorry to hear that Whit, I hope you are now on the mend?

Thanks Emstar, yes I'm well on the mend now finally. Sounds like you are too.

Yea Brian that was my understanding too. I think the liver is suppressed by pufa like the thyroid and every other part of the system. its the monkeywrench.
How can we get it out once we've been exposed?

 

[Brian]

Thanks Emstar, yes I'm well on the mend now finally. Sounds like you are too.

Yea Brian that was my understanding too. I think the liver is suppressed by pufa like the thyroid and every other part of the system. its the monkeywrench.
How can we get it out once we've been exposed?

Probably the most reliable method is to eat very low fat for at least a month or two, like 10 grams per day or less, and possibly use high doses of K2 and caffeine if your metabolism can handle it.

I personally think too much fructose is a bad idea until stress hormones are brought down and the liver is functioning well. So that's why I feel a high starch, low fat diet can be useful in those circumstances. I think's it's one valid, but obviously not the only one. It's just the one I personally had success on. Basically Mcdougall + plus a little low fat dairy until stress hormones are down and the liver and thyroid are working again.

And since the liver needs adequate thyroid to function well, I think it's very crucial to get serotonin/cortisol down and eliminate environmental/lifestyle stressors that are raising them as they oppose thyroid. For me it was too much time indoors and not enough NEAT(Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis). Addressing these drops my serotonin and cortisol very reliably.

 

[whit]

Probably the most reliable method is to eat very low fat for at least a month or two, like 10 grams per day or less, and possibly use high doses of K2 and caffeine if your metabolism can handle it.

I personally think too much fructose is a bad idea until stress hormones are brought down and the liver is functioning well. So that's why I feel a high starch, low fat diet can be useful in those circumstances. I think's it's one valid, but obviously not the only one. It's just the one I personally had success on. Basically Mcdougall + plus a little low fat dairy until stress hormones are down and the liver and thyroid are working again.

Low fat? Does that draw out the pufa from storage?
So what kind of starch? I love potatoes but thought fat had to be part of the equasion with most starches

 

[Brian]

Low fat? Does that draw out the pufa from storage?
So what kind of starch? I love potatoes but thought fat had to be part of the equasion with most starches

Starch without fat is doable if you can bring serotonin down. I've used aspirin, niacinamide, and oregano oil, as well as lifestyle factors such as sunlight and NEAT to good effect. I don't know if it's optimal long term, but I see it as one possible temporary way to stimulate hormonal balance and fix common issues like PUFA storage and liver function.

Another valid option, that I haven't tried myself, is going starchless, but including lots of coconut oil as your only source of fat. I think there are several posters here who have had success with that.

 

[Emstar1892]

Starch without fat is doable if you can bring serotonin down. I've used aspirin, niacinamide, and oregano oil, as well as lifestyle factors such as sunlight and NEAT to good effect. I don't know if it's optimal long term, but I see it as one possible temporary way to stimulate hormonal balance and fix common issues like PUFA storage and liver function.

Another valid option, that I haven't tried myself, is going starchless, but including lots of coconut oil as your only source of fat. I think there are several posters here who have had success with that.

Hey you, may I ask - what is neat? Sounds awesome! :)

 

[Brian]

Hey you, may I ask - what is neat? Sounds awesome! :)

It's basically a fitness nerd way of saying spending a large portion of the day on your feet moving around in a non-stressful, non-strenuous way. AKA not being a couch potato, but also not being a gym rat.

There are several positive hormonal and neurotransmitter changes just from being on your feet and doing things you enjoy more of the day. It can't really fully be attributed to extra calories being burned, which aren't very significant if you were to calculate it based on movement alone.