Help For My 10 Yr Old Daughter Please!

[Jill]

Your better off seeking a functional medicine doctor Institute for Functional Medicine

I've seen a couple functional doctors in the past that told me to give up sugar, dairy and coffee and didnt go back. And after finding Ray Peat a few years ago, it confirmed my instincts. I need to find a Peaty doc!

 

[Lecarpetron]

Do you know why you had terrible digestion as a kid?

For me it's easy to trace...a few generations of undereating/hypothyroidism before me, plus I had a quite few surgeries as a baby/kid (I think general anesthesia is really bad for stress) with constant antibiotics. Plus I was a picky eater who ate nothing...I think my stress level was so high that it killed my appetite.

 

[tara]

Jill
A couple more ideas to add to the ones above. May be worth trying, but don't persist with anything that isn't obviously helpful. No guarantees. Depending on what is causing the trouble, different things might help. I'm a non-expert, and this is not medical advice.

I would not necessarily expect cyproheptadine to be helpful against constipation - it could have opposite effects, since it tends to counter serotonin. (This can be very useful in some contexts, but if constipation is the biggest problem, it might not be.)

Seems to me constipation/distention/pain can have several possible contributors - I expect you've thought and worked through some of these:
1. A physical constriction/blockage in a specific place, either an overgrowth or a twist or something. This is not so common, but can occasionally happen. Hopefully one of your doctors has considered and investigated such possibilities. If this is the problem, other DIY solutions are not likely to fix it.

2. Build up of excess gas that is not escaping easily. This can be extremely painful. Contributing factors can be:
- Lots of food that feeds gas producing bacteria. Eg lots of high fibre foods. Depending on the personal microbiome and state of digestive enzymes, different foods can cause trouble. For some people, lots of starchy foods can do this. For some people lactose doesn't digest well and leads to excess gas.
- Tension or constipation interfering with relaxation and release of gas. Ie not being or feeling able to fart enough. :)
- Not having enough fluids to keep things soft and moving. Or too much fluids swelling the lumen.
I've had crippling attacks, back in the days when I used to eat a much higher fibre diet. Hasn't happened for the last few years. Back when I did get them, I eventually learned some tricks, one or the other of which often worked to relieve the acute pain: relaxed forward bend - feels uncomfortable, but may relax things enough to release gas. Drink cup of warm water and lie on my back and deliberately relax , breath calmly. Make sure to be warm enough, so that cold is not keeping all my muscles clenched.
I think one reason I get much less gas now and never get the crippling pain any more is that I eat a great deal less whole grains, pulses and raw vegetables. For me, I seem to be fine on this front eating potatoes and white rice regularly. But some people find they do better with simpler sugars - fruit, juice, milk, honey, etc.
Activated charcoal can help reduce the gas and bacterial load, but it can be quite constipating in itself, so I would not start with that unless you have a reliable method of relieving the potentially worsened constipation. Some people here have followed it with aged cascara sagrada for this reason.

3. Inflamed gastrointestinal tract that swells and therefore narrows the diameter of the tube it all has to flow through, making things back up painfully. Resolving this seems to be tricky, and there are others here who have more knowledge and experience in figuring out how to resolve this.
An important component seems to be figuring out if there are particular foods that are irritating to the gut, try avoiding them and see if that improves things.
Another part of an approach can be specific anti-inflammatory tactics to help calm the gut and open the lumen.
If you haven't yet read this article, I'd recommend it: Cascara, energy, cancer and the FDA's laxative abuse.
I seldom get constipated, but on occasions when I do get a little, I make tea from a little aged cascara sagrada, and it makes a difference within a few hours.

4. Slowed gut transit because the gut is short of energy. This can happen for various reasons.
Generally slowed metabolism can mean the whole body including the gut is short of energy and not working at its best. If thyroid function is low, it can have this effect. Some times this can be the case even if the drs think the lab results are in the 'normal' range. Monitoring body temps and resting heart rate and other signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism can give clues about this. There is a lot in this forum about how people are trying to figure out an recover from low metabolism. I tend to think plenty of nourishing food is a good place to start - enough protein, carbs, micronutrients, enough fat to make it all taste good enough to eat.
Do you want to give an idea of roughly what and how much she eats?

Also, stress conditions tend to increase breathing rate. This can be useful for acute stresses where fight or flight is necessary. It tends to get more oxygen to the muscles, but less blood flow to the gut etc that are not so crucial for immediate survival. But if the stress remains chronic, or one does not recover from it, the hyperventilation is one of many factors that can alter how the body works, in ways that are not ideal for long term health. Peat and others have written about the importance of CO2 for many functions. A healthy metabolism produces lots of it. Breathing too much (chronic unaware hyperventilation) breathes out too much of the CO2. When CO2 levels get too low, amongst many other things, it's harder to relax, pain tends to be worse, and you get less blood flow to the digestive system.
I learned a bit about Buteyko's method and the importance of CO2 from here: Normal Breathing Defeats Chronic Diseases
and there's a specific exercise for constipation here: How to Relieve Constipation in 1 Min | Get Rid of Constipation

If she's not getting plenty of magnesium in her diet, then supplementing that in some form might help. Any leafy greens have Mg, and so does milk and orange juice, and various other things. But sometimes there may be a need for a bit more than you can easily get from food. If the tablets you have are too big, can you either get some powder or in the meantime just break or crush them into smaller pieces?

Sucrates coffee idea might be helpful too, if she is OK with coffee.

I and others have found kiwi fruit are pretty effective against constipation, but they may have other downsides, so I wouldn't put them at the top of the list to try.

If she happens to be taking any supplements that contain iron, they can sometimes contribute to constipation.
Peat does not usually recommend supplementing vit-C because, AIUI, he does not consider the manufacturing processes safe from contamination. But vit C can sometimes help against constipation.

I hope you and she can find a way forward with this soon.

 

[tara]

Other thoughts:
Is your daughter getting regular sunlight on her skin? This is important for the cells in the body being able to keep producing energy well, for all their functions.
Some regular movement in some form - eg at least a bit of walking every day, not necessarily anything extreme?

Breathing relaxed, nasal and diaphragmatic or tense, mouth and chest?

A couple of other articles of Peat's - possibly food for thought in there?

Vegetables, etc.—Who Defines Food?

Food-junk and some mystery ailments: Fatigue, Alzheimer's, Colitis, Immunodeficiency. Carrageenan

Also, stress conditions tend to increase breathing rate.

I'm sure you are doing what you can in these areas, but anything that helps relieve life stress may help? Playing, laughing, solving problems that are worrying her, doing fun stuff together ...

 

[encerent]

Thank you! No I've never tried cyproheptadine- could recommend a good source? She has a reaction to penicillin, but lidocain? Forgive my ignorance, is this the same as the numbing agent?

A source would be alldaychemist.com.

And Ray did recommend lidocain for severe intestinal problems. It would also help with the pain and suffering she's going through

 

[Giraffe]

@Jill, have you tried squatting?

related post: Constipation

 

[Emstar1892]

be very careful taking asvice from strangers to treat an innocent child who is not well

I second this.

Not sure things like caffeine will help a young child who's clearly already very stressed. When I was 10 coke would have me climbing up the walls, let alone coffee!

Just my two cents, fermented foods like kimchi, sauerkraut and other high probiotic foods always give me serious digestive trouble. Just seems to create a gut bacteria storm that makes me feel like I'm going to explode in agony! Haven't touched those things in years. Might be worth considering before adding supplements or stimulants to a child.

 

[Lecarpetron]

When I was 10 coke would have me climbing up the walls, let alone coffee!

Wouldn't this effect, in and of itself, tell Jill something though about her daughter's glucose metabolism? Or is there something unique about childhood that makes it "normal" to become hyper from having sugar?

 

[Emstar1892]

Wouldn't this effect, in and of itself, tell Jill something though about her daughter's glucose metabolism? Or is there something unique about childhood that makes it "normal" to become hyper from having sugar?

Not sure it would! It happened with any caffeine, not just sugared forms. I'd be awake all night and the next day feel horrible with awful anxiety. Really don't think stimulants are a metabolic solution for kids.

 

[lexis]

Hi all-- first let me thank you all for having this site. I'm so grateful all the knowledge.

I'm desperate to get help for my daughter who just turned 10. She's had digestive issues her whole life and has been through many tests by allergists, gastroentologists, hepotogists, etc. Except for some food sensitivities, nothing has ever come back abnormal.

In the past 3 years she's gained a considerable amount of weight and her abdomen is pretty large even though she hasn't really changed her eating habits! She eats a wide variety of foods, very little processed and grains (she just prefers other things).

She's always had trouble with digestive and constipation, but just yesterday she was crying and immobile with pain. I thought it may have been something she ate so I gave her activated charcoal and Benadryl in case it was an allergic reaction.

I'm keeping track of everything she's eating today and it happened again. She's in severe abdominal pain. Nothing she ate was out of the ordinary for her. I just don't know what to do. My poor baby girl is suffering and I have not been able to help her after all these years.

If anyone has advice of what I can do, where I can go, etc. . . I would be ever so grateful.

Thank you,
Jill

Seems she has undigested fibre.

Cooked bamboo shoots and green pepper may help.

 

[EIRE24]

Seems she has undigested fibre.

Cooked bamboo shoots and green pepper may help.

Green pepper?

 

[Richiebogie]

Elimination diet - eat nothing but safe foods for a month like bananas, mangos, raspberries, coconut, sweet potato. Then introduce a test food every 3 days to see if there is an instant or delayed reaction to it.

Some common problem foods include wheat, rye, kidney beans, seed oils, tomatoes, peppers, white potato, milk, soy, spinach...

Finally eliminate your original safe foods for a month and replace them with your proven safe foods. Finally test the original safe foods.

Andrew Perlot did this to manage his Crohn's disease.

 

[Jill]

Jill
A couple more ideas to add to the ones above. May be worth trying, but don't persist with anything that isn't obviously helpful. No guarantees. Depending on what is causing the trouble, different things might help. I'm a non-expert, and this is not medical advice.


I would not necessarily expect cyproheptadine to be helpful against constipation - it could have opposite effects, since it tends to counter serotonin. (This can be very useful in some contexts, but if constipation is the biggest problem, it might not be.)

Is cyproheptadine good for other digestive issues then?

Seems to me constipation/distention/pain can have several possible contributors - I expect you've thought and worked through some of these:
1. A physical constriction/blockage in a specific place, either an overgrowth or a twist or something. This is not so common, but can occasionally happen. Hopefully one of your doctors has considered and investigated such possibilities. If this is the problem, other DIY solutions are not likely to fix it.

We did have an ultrasound done years ago with nothing abnormal found, but I think it's worth checking again. She hasn't been in this kind of pain in a long time.

2. Build up of excess gas that is not escaping easily. This can be extremely painful. Contributing factors can be:
- Lots of food that feeds gas producing bacteria. Eg lots of high fibre foods. Depending on the personal microbiome and state of digestive enzymes, different foods can cause trouble. For some people, lots of starchy foods can do this. For some people lactose doesn't digest well and leads to excess gas.
- Tension or constipation interfering with relaxation and release of gas. Ie not being or feeling able to fart enough.

- Not having enough fluids to keep things soft and moving. Or too much fluids swelling the lumen.
I've had crippling attacks, back in the days when I used to eat a much higher fibre diet. Hasn't happened for the last few years. Back when I did get them, I eventually learned some tricks, one or the other of which often worked to relieve the acute pain: relaxed forward bend - feels uncomfortable, but may relax things enough to release gas. Drink cup of warm water and lie on my back and deliberately relax , breath calmly. Make sure to be warm enough, so that cold is not keeping all my muscles clenched.
I think one reason I get much less gas now and never get the crippling pain any more is that I eat a great deal less whole grains, pulses and raw vegetables. For me, I seem to be fine on this front eating potatoes and white rice regularly. But some people find they do better with simpler sugars - fruit, juice, milk, honey, etc.
Activated charcoal can help reduce the gas and bacterial load, but it can be quite constipating in itself, so I would not start with that unless you have a reliable method of relieving the potentially worsened constipation. Some people here have followed it with aged cascara sagrada for this reason.

Ok I'll pay more attention to her fluids! She's definitely distended and bloated all the time; farting or needing to fart.

3. Inflamed gastrointestinal tract that swells and therefore narrows the diameter of the tube it all has to flow through, making things back up painfully. Resolving this seems to be tricky, and there are others here who have more knowledge and experience in figuring out how to resolve this.
An important component seems to be figuring out if there are particular foods that are irritating to the gut, try avoiding them and see if that improves things.
Another part of an approach can be specific anti-inflammatory tactics to help calm the gut and open the lumen.
If you haven't yet read this article, I'd recommend it: Cascara, energy, cancer and the FDA's laxative abuse.
I seldom get constipated, but on occasions when I do get a little, I make tea from a little aged cascara sagrada, and it makes a difference within a few hours.

Interesting! That was a great article. I'll have to start food logs with her again.

4. Slowed gut transit because the gut is short of energy. This can happen for various reasons.
Generally slowed metabolism can mean the whole body including the gut is short of energy and not working at its best. If thyroid function is low, it can have this effect. Some times this can be the case even if the drs think the lab results are in the 'normal' range. Monitoring body temps and resting heart rate and other signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism can give clues about this. There is a lot in this forum about how people are trying to figure out an recover from low metabolism. I tend to think plenty of nourishing food is a good place to start - enough protein, carbs, micronutrients, enough fat to make it all taste good enough to eat.
Do you want to give an idea of roughly what and how much she eats?

I think this is what's happening with her metabolism. She's had a thyroid panel done and of course came back 'normal' but she has gained so much weight so fast that she now has stretch marks.
She has respiratory reactions to artificial colors, flavors and most fillers (carrageenan, guar gum, etc) so I try to make sure everything I buy is free from all that. And I only use coconut and olive oil at home so when we do eat out, her PUFA bucket isn't too high (I hope ?)

The night she started having the severe pain, she had eaten:

Omelette with cheese and Tabasco sauce
OJ
Mac n cheese
RP carrot salad
Hot dog (plain, no bun)
Kiwi
Samples at Costco (nothing she hasn't eaten before)
Chocolate covered almonds (contained soy lecithin, canola oil, corn syrup, maltodextrin )
Shrimp with mango salsa
Asparagus
Ice cream

All of those things she's had before (except for those particular almonds, but she's had other candy)

She normally has eggs with cheese for breakfast. Or kimchi and rice. Loves salty/sour foods and snacks on olives, sardines, pickles, etc. And all fruit (berries, kiwi, pineapple, clementines, etc) And prefers this to bread, pastries, cakes, etc! Her brothers will eat all that and are thin with no gastro issues. I'm just stumped.

Also, stress conditions tend to increase breathing rate. This can be useful for acute stresses where fight or flight is necessary. It tends to get more oxygen to the muscles, but less blood flow to the gut etc that are not so crucial for immediate survival. But if the stress remains chronic, or one does not recover from it, the hyperventilation is one of many factors that can alter how the body works, in ways that are not ideal for long term health. Peat and others have written about the importance of CO2 for many functions. A healthy metabolism produces lots of it. Breathing too much (chronic unaware hyperventilation) breathes out too much of the CO2. When CO2 levels get too low, amongst many other things, it's harder to relax, pain tends to be worse, and you get less blood flow to the digestive system.
I learned a bit about Buteyko's method and the importance of CO2 from here: Normal Breathing Defeats Chronic Diseases
and there's a specific exercise for constipation here: How to Relieve Constipation in 1 Min | Get Rid of Constipation

I'll be saving these resources for myself as well! Her conditions started to get worse 3 years ago and the only major stressful event I can think of was some home renovations that took about 6 months. But her life has been pretty stable since with no major changes. We've always homeschooled and she has always eaten intuitively.

If she's not getting plenty of magnesium in her diet, then supplementing that in some form might help. Any leafy greens have Mg, and so does milk and orange juice, and various other things. But sometimes there may be a need for a bit more than you can easily get from food. If the tablets you have are too big, can you either get some powder or in the meantime just break or crush them into smaller pieces?

Yes, I'll definitely start adding regular magnesium. I tried splitting the pills but she said it worse because of the jagged edge. I'll just get some powder or capsules. She loves salad but I thought RP wasn't too keen on lots of leafy greens, should I try adding back in?

Sucrates coffee idea might be helpful too, if she is OK with coffee.

Just gave her some coffee this morning. She loved it! When she was 3 she used to sip my coffee and I would make her own in a small cup (was about 2 ounces). :)

I and others have found kiwi fruit are pretty effective against constipation, but they may have other downsides, so I wouldn't put them at the top of the list to try.

She actually loves kiwi! What are the other downsides?

If she happens to be taking any supplements that contain iron, they can sometimes contribute to constipation.
Peat does not usually recommend supplementing vit-C because, AIUI, he does not consider the manufacturing processes safe from contamination. But vit C can sometimes help against constipation.

She doesn't take any regular supplements. I may give her some when certain problems arise but nothing consistent. I did give her vit-c last week so we could avoid a virus going around! Should I continue this?

I hope you and she can find a way forward with this soon.

Thank you so so much for all your help. I truly appreciate it.

 

[Jill]

@Jill, have you tried squatting?

related post: Constipation

Ah no, not regularly! We have the squatty potty to help her and it does but we'll add in a squat routine.

 

[Jill]

Other thoughts:
Is your daughter getting regular sunlight on her skin? This is important for the cells in the body being able to keep producing energy well, for all their functions.
Some regular movement in some form - eg at least a bit of walking every day, not necessarily anything extreme?

Breathing relaxed, nasal and diaphragmatic or tense, mouth and chest?

A couple of other articles of Peat's - possibly food for thought in there?

Vegetables, etc.—Who Defines Food?

Food-junk and some mystery ailments: Fatigue, Alzheimer's, Colitis, Immunodeficiency. Carrageenan


I'm sure you are doing what you can in these areas, but anything that helps relieve life stress may help? Playing, laughing, solving problems that are worrying her, doing fun stuff together ...

I'm sure we're not getting enough sunlight. We're in Chicago and I do have a red light at home but we still need more. She tested low for Vit D. Once the weather gets warmer, we're usually out at parks or hiking. And in summer she loves the beach and swimming and will do it all day every day if she can. I do give her Vitamin D3 pills but not consistently. Any suggestions to increase?

And we do walk dogs about 3-4 times a week and go to indoor gyms during cold weather, but she's starting to complain that her legs hurt.

Thank you for the articles! I'll be saving them.

 

[Jill]

A source would be alldaychemist.com.

And Ray did recommend lidocain for severe intestinal problems. It would also help with the pain and suffering she's going through

Hmm never heard of using it for that. Thank you!

 

[Jill]

I second this.

Not sure things like caffeine will help a young child who's clearly already very stressed. When I was 10 coke would have me climbing up the walls, let alone coffee!

Just my two cents, fermented foods like kimchi, sauerkraut and other high probiotic foods always give me serious digestive trouble. Just seems to create a gut bacteria storm that makes me feel like I'm going to explode in agony! Haven't touched those things in years. Might be worth considering before adding supplements or stimulants to a child.

Thank you. My kids have coke and have never hyper-reacted. She's also had 1-2 ounces of coffee for about six months when she was 3. Never affected her negatively. It may help that they're free to move and play all day.
I did notice her digestive issues increase when she'd eat kimchi several times a day for many days in a row, so we've cut back the amount. But she's also gone months without any and unfortunately her digestive issues persist.

 

[Giraffe]

Ah no, not regularly! We have the squatty potty to help her and it does but we'll add in a squat routine.

Do you mean the kind of potty little children use? If yes, you don't need it. Just give her something to rest her feet on, like a small stool or a water bucket you turn upside down.

 

[lexis]

Green pepper?

for healing the small intestines

 

[EIRE24]

for healing the small intestines

As in the nightshades, those kind of peppers?