Help For My 10 Yr Old Daughter Please!

[Jill]

Could it be gall bladder problems? I don't know if she is too young for this problem but when my gall bladder was bad ....any food could trigger an attack. At its worst, before I had it removed... I was on apple juice and water only. Then water gave me an attack and I was put in the hospital with IV fluids while I waited for surgery. You may have ruled this out, so just an idea...

Hmm thanks for the suggestion! Haven't that of that. I'm writing everyone's suggestions/advice down and calling her doctor today.

 

[Jill]

The only thing I haven't seen mentioned that might help is glycine. It's really protective to the intestine, and seems to help keep things moving regularly. Avoiding fiber helped me by far the most, and also starches (but others have mentioned this). I can pretty easily avoid fiber, but sometimes it's hard to completely avoid starches. Glycine is found in gelatin, (almost 1/3 glycine by weight) and bone broth. I actually just take straight glycine, 5g/day as maintenance dose. It helps me tolerate starches more. If I ever get really constipated, then a large dose of glycine usually clears it up quite quickly (30-60min). At least 10g, sometimes 20g; you might need to experiment. I've taken up to 60g to experiment, which the first time caused me to feel like my entire abdomen was being relaxed as if it had been under some incredible tension without me being aware. It was pretty amazing, and hard to convey how incredibly better I felt afterward. Later 60g doses didn't seem to do so much, but I assume because maintenance doses have helped keep my intestine in a more relaxed state. Up to 100g glycine/day has been used to treat schizophrenics with no ill effects, so it seems quite safe. As others have mentioned, cascara sagrada can help, but I've found it difficult to find the right dose, and it seems to make me lose minerals too much. For reference in dosing, I'm 77kg.

Thank you! I will try. I put gelatin in my coffee- maybe adding gelatin to her drinks would help too then?

 

[Jill]

Forum member Pakpik posted recently about glycine's immunosuppressive effects at high doses. Wooo's "Progesterone, The Master Hormone Myth"
"I have been simultaneously been experimenting with other things that can drive estrogen levels down like high-dose K2 and glycine.
I've been aware for a long time now that glycine has very powerful immunosuppressive effects. Again, like with any other agent with such immunosuppressive power, good judgement is required when and if used to avoid worsening of the condition. I personally restrict glycine to no more than once a week in very small doses because my personal situation so has required it (glycine worsened my infections if I did it more frequently, and lead to further shut down of my already low immunity).

In this study they compare glycine to betamethasone (Note: betamethasone is considered one of the most powerful corticosteroids in existence).

Modification of immune response by glycine in animals. - PubMed - NCBI

"Glycine (50, 100 and 300 mg/kg), administered daily for 10 days in rabbits challenged with typhoid 'H' antigen and sheep erythrocyte antigen, caused dose- dependent reduction of antibody titre. Inhibition of antibody titre observed with 300 mg/kg was comparable to immunosuppression observed with 1 mg/kg betamethasone."

In this study, they suggest that glycine can be used as an immunosuppressant in the setting of organ transplantation! That tells a lot about the immunosuppressive power of glycine.

Glycine Inhibits Growth of T Lymphocytes by an IL-2-Independent Mechanism | The Journal of Immunology

"Data presented here demonstrate that glycine has immunosuppressive effects and suggest that it could be used in combination with reduced doses of cyclosporin A to maintain effective immunosuppression and prevent rejection of transplanted organs."

As for the mechanisms, there are several, but one important one is the powerful induction of the immunosuppressive cytokine Interleukin-10 (Il-10). If so desired, anyone can research the science databases on that subject to learn about that."

I'm terrified now. So I shouldn't try this glycine supplement? I love reading all of RPs articles and listen constantly to his interviews hoping to get more understanding each time. I'll be studying all these links as well. . .

 

[Mito]

I'm terrified now. So I shouldn't try this glycine supplement? I love reading all of RPs articles and listen constantly to his interviews hoping to get more understanding each time. I'll be studying all these links as well. . .

It might be safer to get glycine in gelatin, hydrolized collagen, or bone broth. Ray likes eating oxtail soup for gelatin. I think Pakpik's post is a caution against high dose isolated glycine supplements.

When I asked Pakpik: "Do you get the same immunosuppressive effects from glycine containing foods such as gelatin? Or just from ingesting free-form glycine?"

She said: "Hi @Mito, I don't remember getting noticeable effects with gelatin (during the period when I consumed 12-24 grams almost daily). I'd suspect that with free glycine the body achieves a greater blood/tissue concentration."

 

[Jill]

It might be safer to get glycine in gelatin, hydrolized collagen, or bone broth. Ray likes eating oxtail soup for gelatin. I think Pakpik's post is a caution against high dose isolated glycine supplements.

When I asked Pakpik: "Do you get the same immunosuppressive effects from glycine containing foods such as gelatin? Or just from ingesting free-form glycine?"

She said: "Hi @Mito, I don't remember getting noticeable effects with gelatin (during the period when I consumed 12-24 grams almost daily). I'd suspect that with free glycine the body achieves a greater blood/tissue concentration."

Ok. Thank you! I do have the gelatin and can start this immediately.

 

[redlight]

I did. Over 5 years ago when I myself started eating Paleo and feeling awful, I found a family functional doctor. She gave the same advice to both my daughter and me -- that I must be doing Paleo "wrong" and to keep doing it but further restrict certain foods (nightshades, coffee, etc) to find the problem. And of course my daughter was sick because she wasn't eating Paleo! She also wanted her to cut all dairy, all grains, all sugars, limiting fruits to only berries occasionally. . . She was 5!!! That's just crazy. What this doctor had no interest in learning about was the level of stress I was under, having three kids who were at the time 7, 5, and 2 with chronic health issues. She had predetermined prescription of Paleo eating for all.

I found another functional doctor. He also went the route of Paleo-eating as the solution but was a little less heavy-handed about it. My health was deteriorating with Paleo (went low-carb too and was breast-feeding at the time!) and I did my best to provide and cook Paleo-only meals for my family and no one thrived. What came first- the stress of eating this way or the stress of trying to follow this ultra restrictive diet? I don't know. But whatever health benefits we derived from the food were quickly overrode by our collective stress!

I'd love to find a doctor to work with me as much of this information is beyond my understanding, but I'm little leary. Any suggestions?

I applaud your effort... I wish you the best of luck, i hope you find a peat inspired doctor, unfortunately i do not know of any.

 

[DrJ]

Forum member Pakpik posted recently about glycine's immunosuppressive effects at high doses. Wooo's "Progesterone, The Master Hormone Myth"
"I have been simultaneously been experimenting with other things that can drive estrogen levels down like high-dose K2 and glycine.
I've been aware for a long time now that glycine has very powerful immunosuppressive effects. Again, like with any other agent with such immunosuppressive power, good judgement is required when and if used to avoid worsening of the condition. I personally restrict glycine to no more than once a week in very small doses because my personal situation so has required it (glycine worsened my infections if I did it more frequently, and lead to further shut down of my already low immunity).

In this study they compare glycine to betamethasone (Note: betamethasone is considered one of the most powerful corticosteroids in existence).

Modification of immune response by glycine in animals. - PubMed - NCBI

"Glycine (50, 100 and 300 mg/kg), administered daily for 10 days in rabbits challenged with typhoid 'H' antigen and sheep erythrocyte antigen, caused dose- dependent reduction of antibody titre. Inhibition of antibody titre observed with 300 mg/kg was comparable to immunosuppression observed with 1 mg/kg betamethasone."

In this study, they suggest that glycine can be used as an immunosuppressant in the setting of organ transplantation! That tells a lot about the immunosuppressive power of glycine.

Glycine Inhibits Growth of T Lymphocytes by an IL-2-Independent Mechanism | The Journal of Immunology

"Data presented here demonstrate that glycine has immunosuppressive effects and suggest that it could be used in combination with reduced doses of cyclosporin A to maintain effective immunosuppression and prevent rejection of transplanted organs."

As for the mechanisms, there are several, but one important one is the powerful induction of the immunosuppressive cytokine Interleukin-10 (Il-10). If so desired, anyone can research the science databases on that subject to learn about that."

One could administer glycine and then count antibodies (or lymphocytes), find them lower, and conclude that "glycine suppresses the immune system." Also, one could administer glycine and then count antibodies (or lymphocytes), find them lower, and conclude that glycine lowers the body's need to mount an immune response. This would be consistent with glycine's ability to heal the gut and prevent pathogens from getting through the intestinal lining, which requires the body to heighten it's immune response. That glycine 'suppresses the immune system' is one hypothesis, but probably not the best one when one entertains the wider data available about its behavior. Hopefully the authors just need more training or a wider knowledge base and are not surreptitiously promoting one hypothesis over another according to an internal bias when other hypotheses are also supported by their limited data. A more sophisticated experiment would need to be performed to support one hypothesis over the other (or even others).

 

[Jill]

One could administer glycine and then count antibodies (or lymphocytes), find them lower, and conclude that "glycine suppresses the immune system." Also, one could administer glycine and then count antibodies (or lymphocytes), find them lower, and conclude that glycine lowers the body's need to mount an immune response. This would be consistent with glycine's ability to heal the gut and prevent pathogens from getting through the intestinal lining, which requires the body to heighten it's immune response. That glycine 'suppresses the immune system' is one hypothesis, but probably not the best one when one entertains the wider data available about its behavior. Hopefully the authors just need more training or a wider knowledge base and are not surreptitiously promoting one hypothesis over another according to an internal bias when other hypotheses are also supported by their limited data. A more sophisticated experiment would need to be performed to support one hypothesis over the other (or even others).

What you've said here and your own experience with it is very compelling. I'm running on emotions right now and certainly don't want to do any harm to my baby, so I'm going to experiment with glycine myself (have my own issues I'm trying to resolve). So thank you for this!

 

[Jill]

An update: She saw her Dr. and he checked her abdomen. Didn't feel anything abnormal. We're going for blood tests and an ultrasound within this next week hopefully. I appreciate everyone's input, support and kindness taking the time to help total strangers.

 

[Tim Lundeen]

Vitamin E seems helpful and safe; it reduces inflammation and blocks histamine release from mast cells. The Shutes recommended high doses (100IU-800IU per day split doses with food), but I've seen some kids get stomach upsets/irritation with too-high Vit E, so suggest diluting Unique E capsules into MCT oil, dose with a dropper, and give with food, perhaps 10IU per meal 3x per day; you can ramp up if it is well-tolerated. If she gets stomach aches stop till they clear up, and then restart at a lower dose. If she can eat any casein, adding that to each meal prevents stomach irritation.

 

[Matt1951]

Elimination diet - eat nothing but safe foods for a month like bananas, mangos, raspberries, coconut, sweet potato. Then introduce a test food every 3 days to see if there is an instant or delayed reaction to it.

Some common problem foods include wheat, rye, kidney beans, seed oils, tomatoes, peppers, white potato, milk, soy, spinach...

Finally eliminate your original safe foods for a month and replace them with your proven safe foods. Finally test the original safe foods.

Andrew Perlot did this to manage his Crohn's disease.

This is the best advice. Also try 100% gluten free for two weeks.

 

[tara]

Is cyproheptadine good for other digestive issues then?

Haidut started a thread with studies about cyproheptadine, you could look it up.
AIUI, serotonin is produced in the gut and stimulates peristalsis.
Serotonin in the rest of the system seems to rise in stress conditions.
Chronically high serotonin seems to cause some kinds of trouble - Peat has written about it, and you can read on his site.
Cyproheptadine has some anti-serotonin effects. Haidut posted a thread with studies about potentially useful effects of cyproheptadine - you could look that up here too if yo want. But it can contribute to constipation in some people, probably because of it's anti-serotonin effect.

I think this is what's happening with her metabolism. She's had a thyroid panel done and of course came back 'normal' but she has gained so much weight so fast that she now has stretch marks.

If you have the numbers from teh thyroid lab tests, you can get more opinions here. Have you or she measured her body temps? Resting heart rate?

She has respiratory reactions to artificial colors, flavors and most fillers (carrageenan, guar gum, etc) so I try to make sure everything I buy is free from all that. And I only use coconut and olive oil at home so when we do eat out, her PUFA bucket isn't too high (I hope ?)

The night she started having the severe pain, she had eaten:

Omelette with cheese and Tabasco sauce
OJ
Mac n cheese
RP carrot salad
Hot dog (plain, no bun)
Kiwi
Samples at Costco (nothing she hasn't eaten before)
Chocolate covered almonds (contained soy lecithin, canola oil, corn syrup, maltodextrin )
Shrimp with mango salsa
Asparagus
Ice cream

I guess you know carrageenan is a common ingredient of icecream - there are a few brands that don't include it. Quite a few people find cheese constipating, and pasta too.

Yes, I'll definitely start adding regular magnesium. I tried splitting the pills but she said it worse because of the jagged edge. I'll just get some powder or capsules. She loves salad but I thought RP wasn't too keen on lots of leafy greens, should I try adding back in?

Peat usually recommends cooking greens, and drinking the water to get the minerals leached into it.

She actually loves kiwi! What are the other downsides?

Maybe irritating to the gut, maybe highish in serotonin? I wouldn't say definitely not to eat it if she likes them - it could also be doing her good. But somewhere along the road, as you check out how she responds to different foods, this might be one to watch.

I did give her vit-c last week so we could avoid a virus going around! Should I continue this?

I don't know. I take vit-C occasionally and give to my kids when we are fighting viruses etc. Peat's reservations make me wary about large quantities and regular use.

 

[lexis]

Would you know what causes undigested fiber in the first place? It seems like anything she eats causes her digestive distress! She does eat green pepper too, but raw. Should they be cooked?

Your daughter ate bran?

Oats,bran,most of the cereals have way too much fibre.

 

[lexis]

Colours of foods are linked to functions of the body. Colour yellow is related to digestion.
So you can give custard a try.

 

[aliciahere]

An update: She saw her Dr. and he checked her abdomen. Didn't feel anything abnormal. We're going for blood tests and an ultrasound within this next week hopefully. I appreciate everyone's input, support and kindness taking the time to help total strangers.

I know you mentioned she was tested for celiac earlier, but how long ago was that? Celiac can come up at any point in time, so a negative test a year ago doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

Also, keep a copy of all bloodwork. Sometimes you can see trends that are missed.

 

[Jill]

I know you mentioned she was tested for celiac earlier, but how long ago was that? Celiac can come up at any point in time, so a negative test a year ago doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

Also, keep a copy of all bloodwork. Sometimes you can see trends that are missed.

Good idea- I need to organize all her paperwork. One of the labs she's taking is celiac, so I'm curious to see what'll be this time. . .

 

[vickypicky]

Good idea- I need to organize all her paperwork. One of the labs she's taking is celiac, so I'm curious to see what'

Hello Jill!
Any updates on your daughter? Did you guys figure it out? Hope you’re all happy and healthy

 

[danishstargazer]

Sounds exactly like gluten intolerance / celiac even if she is testing negative for it. The constipation can be crippling. This is exactly how I grew up when I was given gluten all the time. Also , I would go dairy and gluten-free at first and the re introduce diary. If you are English/Irish /Scandinavian it is probably celiac.

 

[Kyle970]

@danishstargazer
What would be common offenders with that? Grains like oats, wheat, etc? Sourdough ok?
Scottish decent but surely my gut is more Monsanto/standard American modified at this point lol.