Weight Gain. BUT Inches Lost! FINALLY!

[Bones]

"You can definitely gain muscle just by eating the right foods"
Cliff, she had already been eating the right foods and doing Peat. This makes no sense at all, sorry. I even mentioned it to a friend who has been doing strength coaching for years and there is just no way without rigorous weight training you are going to gain 20lbs of muscle, especially a female. I would need pictures to believe it. But she said she wasn't sure it was muscle. I have no idea. 20lbs that remains on the scale but not the body with no weight training....beats me.

100 plus grams of protein through milk and gelatin, how many glasses of milk is that? There's 8 grams in each glass, were you drinking around 10 glasses Michelle? If you were drinking whole, no wonder you had weight gain. Why so much milk?

 

[Birdie]

Glad to hear your story, Michelle. :) Thanks!

I also gained weight (about 10 pounds) when I started this. I took the advice of Ray, Cliff and Andrew. I ate less starch and less fat. More fruit.

Fortunately, it worked. I lost those pounds. It was about 2 pounds a month. Very slow which may be the best way, but it's also the hardest as you go along.

One thing I think's great is Eric's Orange Juice Jello. I'm having trouble drinking enough milk, so I eat cheese and have been making cottage cheese cream.

Good luck on your journey!

 

[Bones]

Birdie did you happen to keep track of calories when you had the weight gain and then during your weight loss? That would be interesting to know. I don't know many people who have gained more than five lbs if at all doing Peat nutrition that were already normal weight. But people who were low carb, lost weight, gained it back with Peat nutrition and then blame Peat diet when it sounds like their metabolism is damaged is something I have come across.

 

[Birdie]

Birdie did you happen to keep track of calories when you had the weight gain and then during your weight loss? That would be interesting to know. I don't know many people who have gained more than five lbs if at all doing Peat nutrition that were already normal weight. But people who were low carb, lost weight, gained it back with Peat nutrition and then blame Peat diet when it sounds like their metabolism is damaged is something I have come across.

No, no! I am completely unable to count calories. I did do it one day a month for about 3 months, just by plugging my food into FatSecret. I wanted to see what my ratios were.

I don't think my metabolism was damaged. I wasn't low carb, just lowish carb. I was used to eating a lot and you can't just eat a lot when you go Peat. So, that was my falling.

I came into this already grain free, legume free, and fake food free. I ate a lot of zucchini, for example, and protein. Never, never oj. Low fruit.

But definitely, what you say happens all over the place. The metabolism. Perhaps my 20 years of Armour thyroid kept mine going better.

 

[Bones]

Well your pace of weight loss is great and speaks to a healthy approach! Thanks for sharing. So you didn't do OJ even now doing Peatstyled nutrition?

 

[gretchen]

So you did you do any exercise? Walking, weights, etc? Also, what is your temperature?

 

[cliff]

Bones she said she gained the original 20 pounds eating a normal peat diet, she lost inches on your waist when she changed her diet she didn't lose/gain any more weight at that point.

What's muscle? lean mass? It's entirely possible to gain 20 pounds of lean mass especially coming from a starvation/low carb diet. Maybe for a trained person who already had muscle and eats a lot of food it won't happen but for people in starved states it's entirely possible.

 

[Bones]

Yes but we know she's not coming from a starvation low carb diet but a Peat diet. Even then unless she was a young athletic woman she is not going to gain 20 lbs of muscle just from food. No way. So barring the starvation exception, this is not possible. A 20 lbs muscle gain in a few months without weight lifting is unlikely. Almost back in her old clothing, again what does this mean? Muscle is muscle I dont' know what you are asking. I mean the main thing is feeling good and better, maybe that's just what happened and the 20 lbs still needs to be dealt with maybe using Birdie's methods that seem reasonable, realistic and effective.

 

[key]

imo she probably gained 10lb fat, 5lb glycogen, 5lb lean mass(muscle,bone,organs)

Sounds like she wasn't doing enough salt while drinking the liquids which can cause edema and not straining OJ which can cause bloating.

 

[Birdie]

Well your pace of weight loss is great and speaks to a healthy approach! Thanks for sharing. So you didn't do OJ even now doing Peatstyled nutrition?

Thanks :) Meant I never drank oj before Peat. Drink lots now. Lots. And eat oj jello a la Eric Lepine.

 

[Bones]

Key, that makes much more sense.

Thanks for clarifying Birdie!

 

[MichelleLE]

Thank you Cliff, again. Yes, I did come off a low carb; no sugar, no dairy starvation diet.

Let me recap...
Okay, I just did not want to "say" my weight, ugh. But here goes... Pre-RP about 18 months ago, I weighed 130, size 2-4. I am 5'7". I always have weighed more than I look. I would say about 4-5 months into RP I went up to weighing 152, where I weigh now. My size got to about 8-10. Okay, 3 months ago I ate and did what I wrote above. That, I am assuming, healed my gut and metabolism. I could now absorb, USE properly, the food I was eating. My workout never changed. My inches went down I am fitting into some of my 4's now. But yes, to my shock, scale still says 152! After reading here what you all wrote and in another thread, I would guess I gained in bone density, muscle, tissue. I am guessing this was the original gain and stayed. I did come into RP on a low carb, low calcium (no sugar, no dairy), some would call nutrition starvation diet. I like this quote in another thread, "the quick transition to high carb and high liquid is incredibly difficult for most people who come from a low to moderately-low carb background. Andrew Kim touches on this in his Q & A with Danny Roddy today. Sugar digesting enzymes have to be reestablished when coming from a lower carb diet to a higher carb diet. When you transition too fast, and upset digestion, then everything becomes a problem -- especially excess liquid. Michelle didn't lose weight when she ate less food, she lost some bloating and edema when she ate less liquid but increased the kcal and nutrient density of the liquid she did drink. I don't think her overall kcal intake was much lower -- not based on the recommendations I gave her anyway." Inflammation and edema played a role here.

Key, I took the sodium/salt, but could not use it, digest it. That is also where the epsom/baking soda bathes help. I did always strain the OJ from the beginning. It was the fresh sweet home juiced OJ that made the difference.

Birdie, thank you! : ) Glad to here you had similar experiences and successes!

 

[jaketthomas]

You can definitely gain muscle just by eating the right foods, I went from 140 to around 160 just switching my diet from 80/10/10 to a normal diet. I assume most of it was lean mass because my pants size didn't really change.

It sounds like maybe Michelle had some sort of edema that was maybe corrected by eating more salt and less liquid.

Cliff, no you can't. It's not physically possible to gain muscle through food/drink. The only way muscle can be built on the human body is through physical exertion, and getting stronger. You were on 80/10/10, which is an extremely deficient diet. You were likely extremely dehydrated and protein deficient. Your weight gain came from rehydration, most likely.

I too have been on the 80/10/10 diet, and I know first hand how ridiculously dehydrated that diet makes you. It literally strips the water right out of your muscles, leaving your muscles and body looking flat and sallow. Getting off of that diet and getting nutrients back in your system, can make your muscles start sucking water up again. Technically, not gaining muscle. Just replenishing the ones you already have.

 

[key]

Key, I took the sodium/salt, but could not use it, digest it. That is also where the epsom/baking soda bathes help. I did always strain the OJ from the beginning. It was the fresh sweet home juiced OJ that made the difference.

How much salt/baking soda did you do when doing high liquid?

So either way the OJ was not good which can cause bloating.

You must have been digesting food fine if you gained 20lbs...

 

[gretchen]

I also came from a low carb, low sugar, no dairy starvation diet which I was on for 15 years. I've gained as well, about 10 lbs, up to a "normal" weight. I may have actually gained more than that; I haven't checked lately.

I'm wondering if you think the extra weight makes you look younger. Do you think you look better (ie, less wrinkled) 20 lbs heavier?

You mention a workout. What type of exercise do you do?

 

[charlie]

Michelle, welcome to the forum.

That's really great you are losing inches. I appreciate you sharing your journey with us. As you can see from all the responses, this is a heavy subject (pun intended) in the Peat world.

I know that weight is a struggle for a lot of us here, including me. The food is so yummy tasting on this plan, for me, that I easily over eat. My pants are now almost too tight to get on, so really cranking down on those calories now the last couple of days. I am not going to over complicate this, and just admit, I got too many calories coming in.

Also a big thanks to Clint for the work he is doing in the world of Peat. He is a wealth of knowledge, and a incredibly kind heart, thank you Clint.

 

[MichelleLE]

Hi Charlie, Thank you for the warm welcome! : ) Haha, yes definitely "heavy" subject! So so true about Clint. Glad to be here. I love the setup you have going here and a good group of Ray Peeps : )

Gretchen, Ok, cool. Yes, I would say about a month into RP eats my skin looked SO much better and I overall felt better. That is what kept me going! I knew this was right. But I dont think it was the weight, well maybe, this whole weight discussion has gotten so intense, is it fat, is it muscle, is it tissues? Hahahah, ahhhhh! Anyways, my skin is denser, more elasticity. Younger looking definitely, now with skinnier body... YAY! Ray Peat eats heaven. Almost... : ) Yeah, before I stepped on the scale I thought maybe I gained 10 pounds. I was SHOCKED. I had never seen that 5 number. Horrified is a better word. My fat was 138. Just in the last week or so, my metabolism seems to be going so fast I need more food. I seem to be still shrinking, though. Yay, life with a good metabolism and working thyroid. It is another world. I will weigh myself again soon and report back. I don't have a scale at home. It will be interesting to see if I stay at this weight.

 

[Edle]

MicelleLE - this was SOO interesting and informative. And funny! Thank you

I have been through something a bit similar, though I am still trying to figure out how to fix my belly inflammation, so your post got me thinking - a lot.

Could you say a bit more about the difference raw has made---- raw oyster, raw liver, raw eggs. I thought I was pretty easy with any food, but the thought of raw liver...Well, I eat almost raw pan fried foie gras, but I have never tried raw veal liver.

It's not physically possible to gain muscle through food/drink. The only way muscle can be built on the human body is through physical exertion, and getting stronger.

I am sorry to say, but as pointed out by others this is so wrong.

Physical stimulation can help, but it will not work on its own unless the diet / digestion / hormones are working.

I am another example of someone who gained muscle (and fat) switching to Ray Peat with no exercise. I was exercising almost daily before that. I was not on a starvation diet. I was on a "Perfect Health Diet" with extra carbs and a surplus of calories. I am 5.7 (171 cm) and my weight was 109 pounds. I was skinny, but sort of skinny fat. Almost no muscle. My body was in stress mode. No matter what I did, I could not gain muscle. I have worked with many supposedly good strength coaches over the years, including a national boxing champion who was pretty savvy about programming, but he had 0 results with me. He had no clue about how to put on lean mass on a person lacking ACTN3, not digesting nutrients properly, and being low on T3.

Then I cut all exercise for six weeks. Started eating Peat like and taking desiccated thyroid. Dessert every day. I ate much more sugar than before. More fruit. More milk and diary. And I gained 5 kg / 11 pounds within a few weeks. According to my Tanita scale (yes, I know it cannot be trusted) my body fat was reduced. The thing is - I could see on my quads and on my arms, that I had some muscle definition I did not have before. Normalizing thyroid in itself can certainly change tissue quality and add lean mass (muscle or whatever you call it) without any kind of exercise. I am still struggling to put on muscle and get stronger, but with Peat I took a step forward for the first time.

 

[Bones]

Edie what was happening to you in part is you were overtraining. This is something you can read about in all the weight training forums and from professional coaches. Charles Poliquin is good reading too. This happens all the time in the gym. People lessen their training and then they finally put on muscle even on a crappy diet.

Perhaps through doing high nutrition and Peat's ways, a person can gain some bone density or improve metabolism, maybe a couple of lbs of muscle but even something like five lbs of actual muscle if the person is just coming from a regular non-starved state with no weight training, just continuing along the same pattern of previous exercise would be quite impressive. But only five lbs of muscle in this hypothetical (with muscle weighing more than fat) still would not account for a very obvious reduction in inches from the alteration of body composition.

If you do lose fat, it will seem like you have more muscle especially if you are really thin like that and everything shows up better. It's like this one Peat person who works in the exercise field said, look at a crack addict's abs who doesn't do any exercise but when the fat is gone you can see what's there. Did the crack addict gain muscle or did he lose fat? Seeing the separation in the muscles in the abs with the addict is a function of reduced body fat. If you are coming from a very active lifestyle with all these coaches, the muscle that we build can hold for some time but it's hard to say if any person actually put on more than five lbs muscle with no training without measurements. The tanita scale is almost worthless, there are other ways to determine body fat with measurements: fat calipers, tape measures so maybe you can look online and ask a friend to help you? It's a great tool to be able to keep track.

The thing I can't understand is how a person can fit into the same clothes (or almost) if they weigh 20 lbs heavier be it muscle or fat or both. Without pics or further knowledge about what's going on, it's hard to convince physical therapists or exercise physiologists that a person is going to gain substantial muscle from doing a year of the same level of nutrients and then in a few months rearranging those nutrients and putting on enough muscle that it would make them drop sizes while weighing the exact same. Unless the bloat made the person gain size but still the 20 lb weight gain is still present. But if someone has some studies about this, I would like to run it by some exercise physiology friends, just one more reason to win people over to Peat!! But I don't want to make Peat's work since far-fetched by bringing up anecdotal examples from people b/c they will say of course, did you see this person's body etc, which is completely fair.

 

[MichelleLE]

Hi Edle,
: ) Haha. Thanks, you're welcome. Yeah, the belly, ugh. Still have a little one. I stopped the raw liver(frozen buffalo) in this last 3 month run. It was working fine I think. But also did not know that I needed it, so cut it out for now. I love the raw oysters. I literally feel a rush within 15 minutes. I go to the local fresh fish market and they shuck 10 of them and put them in a container and I gulp them down with a drink.

Gretchen, I forgot to answer your workout question. I do very little, meaning, never worked out hard. I swim or do some lunges, situps, pushups for like 20 minutes every other day. Thats it. I have been able to maintain a somewhat thin toned body, hopefully fully coming back! I do live in Florida and spend a lot of time outside in the sun, and moving. So that helps too. The sun especially.

Michelle