Is Limiting Insulin Besides Minimize Fat Gain Also Minimize Muscle Gain?

[Hgreen56]

- Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat (rp)
- sugar is less fattening than starch, partly because it stimulates less insulin (rp)

What i understand from this article is that Ray mission is to minimize fat gain much as possible by limiting insulin secretion.
And that the reason is that he's choosing for sugars instead of starch.
But this approach will also minimize muscle gain right?
That why low carb bodybuilders grow way slower right?

So i am thinking for someone whats to have maximize muscle growth its not a good idea to ditch all starch and eat only sugary foods.

But what to do if you still want to prevent weight gain? Than just don't eat fat with your starch?

What about coconut oil with starch? this is the only fat that promotes weight loss.
And because it has also anti-oxidants, its antibiotic and reduce endotoxin and control gut flora.
its looks like coconut oil is a prefect tool to prevent all the harm that starch does?
So with other words, starch plus coconut oil = the best for maximize muscle growth with limiting fat gain on the same time?

I am just guessing around.. here.


- Ray Peat, PhD – Concerns with Starches – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
- Coconut Oil

 

[Hans]

Insulin is needed to stimulate muscle growth, but I don't think you have to eat starches for that. Protein/amino acids can also significantly increase insulin secretion.
You'll be able to build lots of muscle from drinking a gallon of milk daily and a dozen eggs. No need to consume starches. But this approach will not necessarily keep you lean.
Eating in a small surplus will keep you lean. The bigger your surplus, the more fat you're more likely to gain. In this regard, fruit is most likely less fattening than starches in a big surplus, but then you might also not gain mass as quickly with fruit.
So the trick is to keep you gut clean and eat in a small surplus if you want to bulk lean or starch...or eat at a bigger surplus from fruit, but gain the same amount of muscle as with a smaller surplus with starch.
The easiest approach would be to start with a small surplus regardless of your carb source and then slowly increase your carbs until you're gaining the desired amount of weight per week/month.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

Insulin is needed to stimulate muscle growth, but I don't think you have to eat starches for that. Protein/amino acids can also significantly increase insulin secretion.
You'll be able to build lots of muscle from drinking a gallon of milk daily and a dozen eggs. No need to consume starches. But this approach will not necessarily keep you lean.
Eating in a small surplus will keep you lean. The bigger your surplus, the more fat you're more likely to gain. In this regard, fruit is most likely less fattening than starches in a big surplus, but then you might also not gain mass as quickly with fruit.
So the trick is to keep you gut clean and eat in a small surplus if you want to bulk lean or starch...or eat at a bigger surplus from fruit, but gain the same amount of muscle as with a smaller surplus with starch.
The easiest approach would be to start with a small surplus regardless of your carb source and then slowly increase your carbs until you're gaining the desired amount of weight per week/month.

If most pf your carbs came from fruit and you consumed starches in the evening, would you be limiting your muscle gains in the morning and lunch since the fruits wont spike insulin so you will only be getting one insulin spike a day? Do you need to spike insulin at all for muscle growth? I eat protein fat and carbs with every meal but for breakfast and lunch carbs are always fruit/syrups/dextrose`

 

[Razvan]

If most pf your carbs came from fruit and you consumed starches in the evening, would you be limiting your muscle gains in the morning and lunch since the fruits wont spike insulin so you will only be getting one insulin spike a day? Do you need to spike insulin at all for muscle growth? I eat protein fat and carbs with every meal but for breakfast and lunch carbs are always fruit/syrups/dextrose`

You can build a ton of muscle without starch. If your hormones are on point you will still build muscle.

 

[Hans]

If most pf your carbs came from fruit and you consumed starches in the evening, would you be limiting your muscle gains in the morning and lunch since the fruits wont spike insulin so you will only be getting one insulin spike a day? Do you need to spike insulin at all for muscle growth? I eat protein fat and carbs with every meal but for breakfast and lunch carbs are always fruit/syrups/dextrose`

Insulin is needed, but at a physiological level, eating starches or not doesn't make a difference. A caloric surplus, sufficient protein and optimal ATP production will ensure optimal muscle growth. One of the reasons why muscle growth might be slower on a low-carb diet is not because of lower insulin levels, but because of lower ATP levels. Low carb diets mimic fasting in a way and fasting inhibits muscle growth.
Muscle growth is very energy-intensive, so optimizing mitochondrial health and ATP production should ensure optimal muscle growth.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

Insulin is needed, but at a physiological level, eating starches or not doesn't make a difference. A caloric surplus, sufficient protein and optimal ATP production will ensure optimal muscle growth. One of the reasons why muscle growth might be slower on a low-carb diet is not because of lower insulin levels, but because of lower ATP levels. Low carb diets mimic fasting in a way and fasting inhibits muscle growth.
Muscle growth is very energy-intensive, so optimizing mitochondrial health and ATP production should ensure optimal muscle growth.

Thanks for the great reply, this makes things easier to understand now