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A Case For Wheat

Discussion in 'Diet, Recipes' started by Mufasa, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. Mufasa

    Mufasa Member

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    A couple of months ago I have reintroduced wheat in my diet.
    I now sometimes eat up to 500 gram of bread a day.

    Now there are of course obvious issues with bread.
    For example, many people feel immediate discomfort when eating bread.
    But when you don't, and if you are able to get some good quality bread, I would consider it.
    Everything has downsides and nothing is perfect.

    Fruit are often allergenic, high in serotonin, contain a lot of liquid, hard to combine with salt and are very expensive.
    Also, many people react bad to more than 25 gram of fructose in a meal.
    Potatoes take a lot of time to prepare, and have little calcium.
    Rice contains almost no minerals except for phosphorus and manganese.

    So let's consider wheat, I normally eat 100 gram of carbs per meal, so let's consider such a portion.

    Wheat Bread (210 gram)

    Good:
    - 100 gram of carbs
    - Optimal Calcium/Phosphorus ratio of 0.97, white bread is even better
    - A good amount of B1, B2, B3, B5 and B9 (50% RDA on average)
    - 2g of salt
    - 100% of RDA of selenium and manganese
    - low tryptophan (0.2 gram)

    Bad:
    - gluten can be hard to digest
    - may raise endotoxin because of starch/fiber
    - low in potassium
    - 3.4g of PUFA
    - 7.6g of iron

    To digest gluten, I really need to take my time. I chew 40 times per bite.
    I don't look at screens, I'm fully focussed on the food, I make it my (or our) mindful 20-30 minutes.
    After eating, I try not to move for another 30 min.
    So basically, I try to make sure my stress hormones are really low during that time and that all my blood can flow to my digestion.

    I think the same also helps with endotoxin. Eating some saturated fat (cheese for example) helps with endotoxin. Also just not eating that often helps. I try to limit to 4 to 5 meals (including snacks), which means eating every 3-4 hours.

    For iron, drinking a cup of coffee with a wheat meal is probably a good idea.
    For potassium, I often drink a glass of coconut water (not from concentrate) with it or I eat a dessert with fruit.

    For the people from the Netherlands, I use the brand "VanMenno" at the "Ekoplaza", which I think is superb both in quality and taste.
     
  2. Nighteyes

    Nighteyes Member

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    Is there any difference in potassium content between "from concentrate" and "not from concentrate" coconut water? I always assumed they would be the same and the ones that are not from concentrate are sooo expensive here
     
  3. Vinero

    Vinero Member

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    I might give this a try. A few years ago when I was just beginning a Peat-inspired Diet I was still consuming bread and pasta, along with avoiding PUFA. I had no problem digesting gluten back then, but haven't tried to introduce it since. White rice and potatoes become boring after a while and some variety like pasta or bread would be tasty and fun.
     
  4. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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    Plain bread shouldn't be that high on pufas. Those numbers probably are from some commercial bread type.

    Iron also must be lower than what you mentioned.

    Its also a good selenium source.
     
  5. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    That's another point in favor of companies selling dry products: shipping water is expensive, volume and weight wise. But I don't think there's mineral loss, it might even contain more than originally to help mask suspicious tastes from rehydration, which might in turn add fluoride to it (citation needed).
     
  6. OP
    Mufasa

    Mufasa Member

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    I think you may be right, but I can not find a good source.
    Sadly, the calcium content that I found seems to be from additives as well.
     
  7. ilikecats

    ilikecats Member

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    "A case for wheat"... *proceeds to make a case against wheat* lol

    "To digest gluten, I really need to take my time. I chew 40 times per bite.
    I don't look at screens, I'm fully focussed on the food, I make it my (or our) mindful 20-30 minutes.
    After eating, I try not to move for another 30 min.
    So basically, I try to make sure my stress hormones are really low during that time and that all my blood can flow to my digestion."- that sounds ridiculous but if it works for you than it works for you
     
  8. OP
    Mufasa

    Mufasa Member

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    I think the same strategy should be applied to the digestion of any starch rich meal.

    What is ridiculous about it? The time I spend eating? I think in many cultures it is normal to eat for 20-30 minutes during lunch and dinner. I think in some countries in south europe they even eat for around an hour with lunch and dinner.

    It is also normal advice to not directly move after having eaten and first let it digest.

    What I think is more ridiculous is how many people just eat their lunch in a rush while working or checking their email, not even noticing what they put in their mouth, after it rushing to catch their train and then complaining they have hypothyroid issues.

    If their is one perfect time to fully relax and take a break from whatever you are doing, letting the body know it can make thyroid instead of stress hormones, then it is while you are eating right?

    Thyroid is the hormone of abundance. You should let the body know, there is abundance of energy, nutriens and time. That you dont need extra energy in the short time, but that you are fully ready for thyroid and the reproductive hormones to flow.
     
  9. ilikecats

    ilikecats Member

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    @Mufasa just seems like a lot to go through to consume something that’s less optimal than other food choices. And what happens if you have a stressful experience before you eat? just sitting down and doing your normal bread eating protocol probably won’t be enough to mitigate the negative effect of the starch and gluten (if it was even enough in the first place... I personally don’t think it is). I guess I would respect the idea of focusing on your food when your eating. It can be beneficial to be 100 percent engaged in whatever your doing and not multitask. I mean if your not trying to do what’s optimal I get that and it’s not s big deal (eating bread) but from the couple of posts I’ve seen by you It seems like you’re concerned with what’s optimal. There’s certainly worse things that you could eat. But 3.4g of PUFA per 100gs of carbs.... I consume probably 1.5 kilos of carbs a day so if I relied on bread as my main carb I’d be getting 34 grams of PUFA a day! Terrifying
     
  10. ilikecats

    ilikecats Member

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    @Mufasa and I think when people think about bread they focus on the gluten and starch content but they forget about the YEAST. There’s estrogen in the yeast and ray says it’s no different from the estrogen found in the body. BTW that PUFA number seems a little high (as someone else mentioned). I think I remember reading that white bread has less PUFA than whole grain bread. So maybe the amount of PUFA they listed is for whole grain bread (I don’t think you specified if you’re eating whole grain or white bread)
     
  11. PowertothePeatple

    PowertothePeatple Member

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    Are we talking white bread or whole wheat bread? I think a case for white bread being OK could be made. I think whole wheat is problematic because of anti-nutrients, mineral loss and fiber. It seems to me that most of the arguments against wheat are true of whole but not refined wheat. And if you want to avoid gluten then sourdough might even mostly eliminate that objection.
     
  12. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    I also started eating more on a schedule and less ad libidum (3-4 meals). Eating less often means less stress on the digestive system. I guess you could eat fruit all day long without putting strain on the digestive system, but I don't have time for that. So, I'm experimenting with eating less often, but bigger meals.

    Totally agree, modern society is destroying traditions with its focus of productivity.

    My grandma always comments on the luminosity of a room. She also told me how light is important for newborns. Meanwhile, I was thought to keep the lights off to reduce energy costs and was keeping the blinds on for privacy. It seems that some time during the 20th century we discredited the knowledge of elders in favour of science.
     
  13. OP
    Mufasa

    Mufasa Member

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    I personally take both white and whole wheat sourdough bread made in a traditional french way. If sourdough is done right it decreases gluten, phytic acid and fiber.
     
  14. encerent

    encerent Member

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    Wheat makes me have the best bowel movements.
     
  15. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    +1 for sourdough, although personally I like the taste of white bread the best. However I stick to my theoretical guns with sourdough, deactivating more of the gluten particles.

    The lowered calcium/phosphate ratio of bread compared to pasta must be why I can eat bread (along with butter/cream cheese and sugar) no problems, but pasta gives me joint pain.

    Bread has been a positive introduction into my diet, combined with maybe a banana, some yogurt and coffee, I usually feel very good and satiated, and I even notice an increase in cognition and ability to sit and focus.

    There’s theory and experience. In theory, starch is bad and milk is good, however personal in vitro experiments have lead me to conclude the opposite for milk and certain starches.
     
  16. Sourdoughbanana

    Sourdoughbanana Member

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    Fruit mixes really poorly with other foods, however it’s typically the perfect snack to replenish liver glycogen (1 fruit per hour does the job) plus there’s little insulin spiking. It is also very satiating and mixes quite well with dairy, which keeps the serotonin imbalance in check. Your 25g figure probably comes from the fact that sedentary people don’t really burn more than 25g of glycogen per hour - that is, unless they train.

    On the other hand, wheat is absolutely terrible for blood sugar control, auto immunity (which you can’t realize right now after a few occurrences of eating bread, however good it tastes), inflammation which goes hand in hand with insulin resistance, and so on. That sodium/potassium ratio is awful as well.

    Peat has written extensively on starch vs sugar, id recommend giving his articles another read.
     
  17. Nighteyes

    Nighteyes Member

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    Yeah you are right that shipping all that water weight probably bumps up the price; I Think there is certainly no flouridated water added to the brand I use. I can taste that from a mile away.. after living in Australia and New Zealand I have come to appreciate the water quality in northern europe. Flouridated water tastes awful and kills my metabolism.

    On-topic note: I generally love wheat-bread as well. Use it almost daily. Probably provides some selenium and b-vitamins that I am otherwise missing. Or maybe the starch particles are comfortably numbing my brain .. really Warming comforting Food though... and cheese (raw goats of course) just doesnt go as well with anything else ..hmm
     
  18. OP
    Mufasa

    Mufasa Member

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    From the label of the bread I eat, it is more like 1g PUFA per 100g of carb. That is I think more acceptable. Orange juice is 0.4g.

    Btw, Im not sure which food wouldnt be terryfying if you try to get 1000 gram of carbs from it in a day. With Orange Juice, you would ingest 12L of water, with rice a huge amount of arsenic, with potatoes, you need 5kg of potatoes, which has a huge amount of fiber, that would be extremely hard to digest in a day.

    I think that was is optimal is super dependent on context. I can think of contexts where wheat is the optimal source of carb for that moment.

    Personally, I have sometimes been undereating, because I felt there was no good options in a given context. I just want to say that wheat may be an option, as it is for me.

    For example, if you dont feel good with drinking a huge amount of fruit juices/milk/soda. Or not being able to afford a lot of fruit. Or you in places where you can not prepare or buy a meal with potatoes/rice and you dont feel like preparing at home and taking with you. Etc.
     
  19. OP
    Mufasa

    Mufasa Member

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    Im not sure the same holds for sourdough bread.
     
  20. Runenight201

    Runenight201 Member

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    As Matt stone would encourage, better to be fed than chronically starving due to negative fact seeking induced orthorexia =P
     
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