Do you feel best on A) "normal" 3x meals of meat/starch/veggies or B) "Peat style" no starch milk/meat/fruit diet?

Do you feel best eating A) meat/starch/veggies or B) "Peat" no starch milk/meat/fruit diet?

  • A) "Normal diet" with 3-4x daily meals of meat, starch (white rice/potatoes), veggies

    Votes: 30 51.7%
  • B) "Peat style diet" no starch - milk, meat, fruit, honey grazing type diet

    Votes: 28 48.3%

  • Total voters
    58

Korven

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I am curious to hear what people here respond best to.

Personally my CFS symptoms are way, way better on a strict "Peat" diet of milk, meat and fruits/honey with very little fiber, but downsides are that I have an extremely hard time gaining weight and my bowel movements are not perfect. Also doesn't seem to be the best diet for liver health with all the fructose and dietary fat. Also after a few weeks of eating this way I start getting some strong cravings for "proper" filling meals with starch, meat, vegetables and salt. Though any time I try going back to a meat and rice type of diet my health starts deteriorating again so I don't really have a choice.
 

Vinero

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Why not pick the best of both worlds? That's what I'm doing. Milk+meat+starch+sugar


For starches I use white rice and white bread/flour. No potatoes, whole grains or beans because soluble fiber feeds gut bacteria which cause hypothyroid/serotonin symptoms for me. I also get acne, dry skin and eczema from too much solube fibers.
For sugars I just use refined sugar added in my milk. Honey on bread. Maple syrup on pancakes. Orange juice is probably ok too but I don't want to drink too much liquids since that lowers my body temperature. The only liquid I drink is milk to maximize my calcium intake.
 
Last edited:

metabolizm

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I don't have massive cravings for either fruit (sugar) or milk, so it would be foolish to have them as the main staples of my diet. I've tried consuming both more than I actually crave them, and it never ends well. I suspect a lot of people on this forum are making this very mistake and running into problems because of it.

I seem to have terrible issues with most starches except white rice and, to a lesser extent, well-cooked potatoes, so I have to include them. I love bread, but I just cannot digest it properly. It's probably just as well, because gluten may well be toxic.

I enjoy veggies (particularly spinach, courgette, onions, peppers), so I incorporate them into most meals.

Three meals a day seems to work best, with minimal snacking in between.
 

Jennifer

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A low-fat dairy, fruit, honey type diet works best for me, but I prefer 3 large meals and snacking in between. I tolerate starch but not as much as fruit and honey and I stopped craving it long ago. Same with veggies—I never crave them, but I crave milk like crazy so I figure I’m just getting my veggies via the milk.
 

Vinero

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Lol, I have no idea how you can reap the benefits of "no starch" while simultaneously eating a lot of starch?
By choosing starches with a low soluble fiber content, such as white rice and white bread/flour. These safe starches don't feed the bad gut bacteria which create toxins. I experience a massive difference in how I feel based on the type of starch I eat. Potatoes (which are very high in soluble fibers) eaten 3x times a day give me serotonin/endotoxin symptoms with itching skin. White rice or white bread/flour eaten 3 times a day makes me feel good, no skin problems.
(4) Soluble Fiber Causes Liver Cancer, Insoluble And Antibiotics Prevent/stop It | Ray Peat Forum
 

Korven

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Why not pick the best of both worlds? That's what I'm doing. Milk+meat+starch+sugar


For starches I use white rice and white bread/flour. No potatoes, whole grains or beans because soluble fiber feeds gut bacteria which cause hypothyroid/serotonin symptoms for me. I also get acne, dry skin and eczema from too much solube fibers.
For sugars I just use refined sugar added in my milk. Honey on bread. Maple syrup on pancakes. Orange juice is probably ok too but I don't want to drink too much liquids since that lowers my body temperature. The only liquid I drink is milk to maximize my calcium intake.

I've tried this a couple times now and it doesn't work for me. When I do milk + refined starches or potatoes my digestion and transit time slows down quite a bit. From there on I get massive endotoxin poisoning problems. The only way I can sort of tolerate starch is if I cut out dairy, though I still get issues.

The only way I can be functional is if I eat the "strict Peat diet" of animal products and fruits/honey. Still don't understand why I get cravings for starches when I feel so bad after eating them.
 

tankasnowgod

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By choosing starches with a low soluble fiber content, such as white rice and white bread/flour. These safe starches don't feed the bad gut bacteria which create toxins. I experience a massive difference in how I feel based on the type of starch I eat. Potatoes (which are very high in soluble fibers) eaten 3x times a day give me serotonin/endotoxin symptoms with itching skin. White rice or white bread/flour eaten 3 times a day makes me feel good, no skin problems.
(4) Soluble Fiber Causes Liver Cancer, Insoluble And Antibiotics Prevent/stop It | Ray Peat Forum

It's cool that you get good results from that. I personally saw some good results from eating both sugar and starches when learning about Peat's ideas, but have found eliminating starches (or keeping their use to rare occasions) gave superior results.
 

Vinero

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It's cool that you get good results from that. I personally saw some good results from eating both sugar and starches when learning about Peat's ideas, but have found eliminating starches (or keeping their use to rare occasions) gave superior results.
I have tried to cut out starch recently, and significantly upped my sugar intake. Problem is I got a nasty white coated tongue. I don't know what this is, but this is not a good sign. Eating starch again and cutting out the sugar eliminates the white tongue. I don't know why sugar seems to cause this. Maybe it's because lower sodium intake and higher water intake when I'm not eating starch. Starches are a good vehicle for sodium after all. That's a benefit of starch, that it has a high sodium and low water content which is pro-thyroid.
 

Vinero

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I've tried this a couple times now and it doesn't work for me. When I do milk + refined starches or potatoes my digestion and transit time slows down quite a bit. From there on I get massive endotoxin poisoning problems. The only way I can sort of tolerate starch is if I cut out dairy, though I still get issues.

The only way I can be functional is if I eat the "strict Peat diet" of animal products and fruits/honey. Still don't understand why I get cravings for starches when I feel so bad after eating them.
I wonder why milk + starch would decrease transit time? Does eating meat and starch also causes low transit time? When I was eating the low vitamin A diet (white rice + meat) I absolutely needed magnesium to have normal transit time. A person on Grants forum called his bowel movements on just meat and rice "gut concrete". I do think eating adequate fats such as butter, coconut oil, cocoa butter or maybe olive oil can help to prevent constipation.
 

Korven

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I have tried to cut out starch recently, and significantly upped my sugar intake. Problem is I got a nasty white coated tongue. I don't know what this is, but this is not a good sign. Eating starch again and cutting out the sugar eliminates the white tongue. I don't know why sugar seems to cause this. Maybe it's because lower sodium intake and higher water intake when I'm not eating starch. Starches are a good vehicle for sodium after all. That's a benefit of starch, that it has a high sodium and low water content which is pro-thyroid.

Milk, sugar, fruits are cold/damp-forming foods according to both Ayurvedic teachings and TCM. One symptom being a white coated tongue. Maybe there's some truth in that? I believe you need quite robust digestive function to do well on milk. On the other hand complex carbohydrates also need a lot of pancreatic digestive juice to be broken down completely.
 

nikotrope

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By choosing starches with a low soluble fiber content, such as white rice and white bread/flour. These safe starches don't feed the bad gut bacteria which create toxins. I experience a massive difference in how I feel based on the type of starch I eat. Potatoes (which are very high in soluble fibers) eaten 3x times a day give me serotonin/endotoxin symptoms with itching skin. White rice or white bread/flour eaten 3 times a day makes me feel good, no skin problems.
(4) Soluble Fiber Causes Liver Cancer, Insoluble And Antibiotics Prevent/stop It | Ray Peat Forum
Same, very bad digestion issues with potatoes, legumes, and such. But I feel good on white rice and bread (or even pasta). At the same time, I still have some digestive issues whatever I eat (whether it’s no starch or not) and I don’t know how to fix it.
I have tried to cut out starch recently, and significantly upped my sugar intake. Problem is I got a nasty white coated tongue. I don't know what this is, but this is not a good sign. Eating starch again and cutting out the sugar eliminates the white tongue. I don't know why sugar seems to cause this. Maybe it's because lower sodium intake and higher water intake when I'm not eating starch. Starches are a good vehicle for sodium after all. That's a benefit of starch, that it has a high sodium and low water content which is pro-thyroid.
Yes, I also get white tongue from more sugar. Would love a solution to that!
 

Korven

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I wonder why milk + starch would decrease transit time? Does eating meat and starch also causes low transit time? When I was eating the low vitamin A diet (white rice + meat) I absolutely needed magnesium to have normal transit time. A person on Grants forum called his bowel movements on just meat and rice "gut concrete". I do think eating adequate fats such as butter, coconut oil, cocoa butter or maybe olive oil can help to prevent constipation.

Yeah it's kind of a mystery to me. When I eat white rice I need some fiber along with it to help drag it along the digestive tract. More fat in my diet definitely improves transit time.
 
Last edited:

Sefton10

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Whole Jersey milk, fruit, honey, eggs, beef/lamb, feta cheese, bone broth and mushrooms works well for me as baseline. Haven’t had starch in quite a while now a don’t crave it at all anymore.

4 biggish meals, no snacking in between. I stick to a roughly 12 hour eating window as that helps my sleep, not eating a couple of hours before bed helps too. I make sure I get enough fat (extra from cocoa butter) and protein during the early part of day (breakfast like a king) and supplement magnesium and B1, with nutritional yeast for extra B vitamins.

No coffee. I suspect that could be an issue for many who cut out starch and rely on fruit/sugar, especially if they don’t get enough fat. It definitely screws me up whenever I add it back.
 

gaze

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Whole Jersey milk, fruit, honey, eggs, beef/lamb, feta cheese, bone broth and mushrooms works well for me as baseline. Haven’t had starch in quite a while now a don’t crave it at all anymore.

4 biggish meals, no snacking in between. I stick to a roughly 12 hour eating window as that helps my sleep, not eating a couple of hours before bed helps too. I make sure I get enough fat (extra from cocoa butter) and protein during the early part of day (breakfast like a king) and supplement magnesium and B1, with nutritional yeast for extra B vitamins.

No coffee. I suspect that could be an issue for many who cut out starch and rely on fruit/sugar, especially if they don’t get enough fat. It definitely screws me up whenever I add it back.
how much liquid do you drink in a meal ? edit: oh wait i thought you drank juice, eating fruit instead of juice makes it way easier to have meals without starch
 

gaze

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I don't have massive cravings for either fruit (sugar) or milk, so it would be foolish to have them as the main staples of my diet. I've tried consuming both more than I actually crave them, and it never ends well. I suspect a lot of people on this forum are making this very mistake and running into problems because of it.

I seem to have terrible issues with most starches except white rice and, to a lesser extent, well-cooked potatoes, so I have to include them. I love bread, but I just cannot digest it properly. It's probably just as well, because gluten may well be toxic.

I enjoy veggies (particularly spinach, courgette, onions, peppers), so I incorporate them into most meals.

Three meals a day seems to work best, with minimal snacking in between.
when i massively push the milk + juice as the two main staples, i quickly lose sense of my cravings. i don't know if i'm hungry, thirsty, want salt, want protein etc.
 

Sefton10

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how much liquid do you drink in a meal ? edit: oh wait i thought you drank juice, eating fruit instead of juice makes it way easier to have meals without starch
Yes, fruit rather than juice. I have maybe a cup and a half of OJ or apple juice a day as I mix that with the magnesium acetate I make (mag carbonate and vinegar). Usually a cup of warm milk with each meal. 1 - 2 cups of bone broth with dinner. That’s pretty much all the liquid I have. If it’s particularly warm or I’m more active than normal, I might have some coconut water.
 

Nemo

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I have tried to cut out starch recently, and significantly upped my sugar intake. Problem is I got a nasty white coated tongue. I don't know what this is, but this is not a good sign. Eating starch again and cutting out the sugar eliminates the white tongue.

Likely candida: white tongue candida at DuckDuckGo

The corners of my mouth cracked over the winter and wouldn't heal (angular cheilitis). Some websites say that's caused by candida.

Ray says candida becomes a problem when you're hypothyroid:


I had stopped taking thyroid late the previous summer and I had done nothing about supplementing D3 over the winter. At the same time, I kept eating only sugar, no starch.

The corners of my mouth healed quickly when I returned to supplementing thyroid and my Vitamin D3 levels went back up.
 
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