Thoughts On Starch

[zooma]

I've been eating a peat style diet for a few months now and I feel like I've made progress which is good. I'm currently drinking around 2L milk a day, 1L orange juice, a carrot and a few others bits (fruit, decent bread, meat, eggs) to make up the calories on a good day.

But I have two problems. Firstly, although I have cut down on liquid a lot, I think I'm still drinking too much. And I'm getting too many days now where i crave solid food, and also probably just some food that isn't sugary.

So I'm looking for opinions on whether dropping orange juice for white rice or pasta on more days will hinder me? I love OJ and still want to drink it on some days but I think this could solve both of my problems. I don't want to mess with the milk because it has been very good for me - a solid source of protein is something I've always had trouble getting enough of as well as being cheap/easy.

I currently don't think there is anything wrong with starch but I want to see if there is anything I'm missing. In the past I have thought it made me feel bad, but I think that was the PUFAs and other nasty things that come packaged with it so often. When I try and think about the most satisfying meals I've had recently (other than a dirty takeaway or two hitting the spot.. ) they have been starch based with saturated fats, decent proteins and spices for taste.

Thanks

 

[Such_Saturation]

Why not give it a try?

 

[zooma]

Ha well that is the plan, just wondered if anyone coming from a peat diet had tried it before :)

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Here is a good list of starches:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... h-staples/

I don't agree with everything McDougall says but that is a good list to reference. The big illusion about starch for me was eating fat free starch. It is impossible to even comprehend eating potatoes and rice without and oil, butter, or sour cream added to them. But for me, eating fat free starch is working. Potatoes are very nutritious. Peat said that they are almost a perfect food. I agree.

@Such, I know you don't eat starch. I'm curious as to how you stay satiated throughout the day while not eating starch.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Here is a good list of starches:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... h-staples/

I don't agree with everything McDougall says but that is a good list to reference. The big illusion about starch for me was eating fat free starch. It is impossible to even comprehend eating potatoes and rice without and oil, butter, or sour cream added to them. But for me, eating fat free starch is working. Potatoes are very nutritious. Peat said that they are almost a perfect food. I agree.

@Such, I know you don't eat starch. I'm curious as to how you stay satiated throughout the day while not eating starch.

It seems hard for me to answer... I eat to satiety... I mean there's more to satiety than just expanding the stomach.

 

[barbwirehouse]

If I remember correctly, Peat says that eating potatoes is good with a fat source like butter, coconut oil or tallow. They must of course be cooked and I think they're also preferred peeled.

 

[tara]

I think I get hungry more quickly after high-starch meals than high-sugar meals. I assume this is because of the higher insulin effect and subsequent lower blood sugars. This is the opposite of what I believed about the mechanism in 15 years of eating moderate-high starch and low sugar, during which my ability to last between meals deteriorated. I still want frequent feeding, but my experience does seem to support what Peat has said about sugar being more effective for refilling glycogen stores, keeping energy supply more stable, etc.

I think you get more of the minerals necessary for metabolising carbs from OJ than from rice (eg potassium, magnesium). I would keep at least some OJ every day if it agrees with you, or find other food sources of those minerals.

How about adding a bit of rice without reducing the OJ? Depending on your issues, rice may be easier on your digestion than bread. And/or try some potatoes if they agree with you - they have more useful minerals and protein than rice. When you eat starch, Peat suggests eating (or drinking) food containing sugar as well.
You can also reduce your fluid ratio by turning some of your milk into fresh cheese.

I have been gradually moving to more sugar and less starch over many months. If I'm craving starch, sugar doesn't fill the spot, so I go with it and eat a bit of starch (potato/rice/occasionally bread, all usually with butter). This happens less and less, and I eat much smaller portions of it than I used to. I think this is partly because I'm not relying on starch to be my carrier for salt - I salt eggs/liver/fish/meat heavily, and drinks lightly. You can choose to make changes at whatever pace you want, listening to what your body tells you about the changes on the way, and reversing when a change doesn't seem to be serving you.

 

[pboy]

persorption? I mean...it would be hard to tell without dissecting something...but like...just the vibe of starches kind of leads me to believe it would be the case

the liquid thing and therefore satiety can be a big issue that starches might be able to help with...but if you execute very well you can overcome that

dunno, maybe im trippin, but I don't think so...I guess the question or challenge for most people is, are you more afraid up hypotonicity(excess water) or starch persorption / endotoxin / serotonin

you don't think perhaps the satiety from starch is a serotonin thing?

 

[nikotrope]

When I crave solid food what I really crave is either salt or density (lots of calories). Of course starch will hit the spot because it's calorie dense, we rarely eat less than 50g of it (apart from the slice of bread here and there) and we put salt in it when we eat it. But then the insulin spike resulting from it can make things worse and then there's the endotoxin/serotonin thing.

In my case starch doesn't make me more satiated than liquids. It is just a matter of calories and liquid tonicity like pboy said. Too much hypotonic liquids and stress hormones will kick in. My most satisfying meals have been calorie dense, no matter the macronutrients (with enough salt if there's not enough carbs).

On a related note and related to other threads, I have been taking thiamine each time I eat starch since a few days and I feel better now when I eat starch, probably because it controls hyperglycemia that starch triggers. I need more time to be sure but it seems to be a nice way to control starch damages. Not that I will eat lots of starch everyday but when I eat out (or in vacation) it can be a great tool.

 

[Amazoniac]

Hi Zooma,

In my opinion, when starches are consumed as a side dish they are not problematic. One of the concerns is that most starches are complex carbs, a significant portion won't be digested at the upper part of the small intestines. They will reach areas that are less sterile and probably ferment. Especially if you consume them with fats, which is highly desirable.
So the main issue is how you are going to digest it. Healthy people have guts colonized to ferment them and generate beneficial compounds like SCFA. But, if you are not suited to handle complex carbs, the issues with toxic by-products start to become a real concern.
You will know if you can handle them in a matter of minutes!
The issue with insulin spikes and crashes are mitigated by eating them in the context of a meal.
White fleshed sweet potato, potato, cassava, taro, white rice, tapioca; are all good sources. Cook, cool for 2 days and reheat lightly before consuming for a bit of resistant starch.
The more water and heat involved when cooking, the more it will gelatinize and become available. So, cooking method will affect how they behave when digested. For less fermentation boil for a long time.

 

[zooma]

Some really good replies here, much appreciated :)

I think there is something to the whole salt/calorie density thing. I'm not taking in much salt at the moment and none of my foods are calorie dense. I'll try adding some sugar and salt to see if that solves the problem. Another thing that points to this is that I am actually drinking less now then I was pre-peat.

I'm going to hold off on upping the starch for now because I do eat it a few times a week currently anyway when I eat out.

Could I ask for everyone not eating starch, what calorie dense foods do you eat?

 

[nikotrope]

You could try greek yogurt if you don't have problems with yogurt. Or cheese. I love parmesan with fruit juice. Chocolate is dense too.

They are not "optimal" foods because they can cause problems for some people but it's probably better than starch.

 

[barbwirehouse]

You could try greek yogurt if you don't have problems with yogurt. Or cheese. I love parmesan with fruit juice. Chocolate is dense too.

They are not "optimal" foods because they can cause problems for some people but it's probably better than starch.

I eat greek yogurt, cheese and chocolate all the time. Just make sure to get the good stuff, raw milk cheese with animal rennet. Some people don't like the soya lecithin in chocolate

They're all nice in moderation, good protein and energy sources.

 

[zooma]

I'm quite lucky digestion-wise because as far as I know there aren't any foods that give me problems.

I'll try adding some greek yoghurt and parmesan, cheese is one of my favourite foods and should be a solid way to get some salt in without ruining the taste of my milk! I'll get some chocolate too - should help me avoid making some 'sub-optimal' choices if I get a craving.

One starchy food that I think I'll keep is bananas. As long as they are ripe they seem to do me good. Could you expand on the serotonin thing pboy? It isn't something I know a whole lot about, why would it help with satiety?

@barb - agreed about the food quality, when I first started I was drinking standard supermarket milk which did seem to give me a few problems, when I switched to better stuff the difference was apparent. I'll definitely carry this through to all other foods I add. It's the reason I don't eat eggs very often, the only half decent ones I can find are in a supermarket that is a pain to get to and they cost a fortune.

 

[pboy]

I think starch signals the body famine kind of thing so it slows nervous function, and therefore makes you seem satisfied because youre operating much slower on a metabolic level...its that 'serene' feel, but not in the way that makes you want to dance and spread love, its more of a feeling of a bubbled protection and submission and slow down of everything. Not that it feels bad...but if you are in that state too long, just like if society as a whole is, the bad influences just start ceeping in, things in life get backed up, and it becomes harder and harder to deal with. When the backup is sufficient to start effecting someone, like world bearing down and not enough energy to deal with, angst and resentment and like...attack mode or not caring about others, harmony and the environment, aggression and depression might ensue

ill also add that, it seems a good amount of sugar and protein and stuff, especially sugar, if its just like 1 starch meal, with enough other non starch food later that day or the morning the next day, the starch effects can be overcome...so its only a problem if you eat it all the time and never take a break (which unfortuneately most people in a lot of the world do)

 

[cout12]

I eat between 2 and 6 boiled potatoes everyday. I think ray thinks they are safe and I feel good on boiled potatoes. It doesn't feel bad like other starches. Not boiled potatoes don't feel that great though. It also has a decent amount of vitamins and protein so not only does it help with satiety it helps reach RDA. Rest is milk, juice and gelatin.

 

[mt_dreams]

If you believe you are taking in too much liquid, you could always try buying frozen oj concentrate, and just making it with less water (though Ray has warned about possible high levels of fluoride in some of the oj concentrates). Other options would be to increase salt to balance out the extra water, or sweating more.
i
Also keep in mind that rice pasta's starch is different from the starch in freshly cooked potatoes. Starch that is cooked then cooled (rice pasta, potato salad, etc) becomes resistant starch which is digested differently than fresh cooked starch. If you have high blood sugar levels or improper insulin function, the resistant starch might be beneficial. If you have high gut bacteria, the fresh starch might be a better choice.

 

[zooma]

@pboy that makes sense to me, cheers. I've been having starchy meals 1-2 times a week and it doesn't seem to have caused me any problems so that is good to know. I'll try not to have too many bananas although there is a good amount of sugar in them when ripe right?

I'm not really a huge fan of potatoes but from what I've read they do seem to be by far the best starch so I'll eat some in place of rice. I've also been meaning to try cooking/cooling rice or potato to give the whole resistant starch thing a go.

I'm going to try less milk in favour of yoghurt and cheese somedays, as well as more fruit or sugar in place of some OJ. Decided I don't want to stray too far from what is working for the time being - and I've also realised how much I'm enjoying the lack of food preparation.

 

[koganmj]

I simply can't get to sleep at night (let alone stay asleep) without consuming starch before bed. I function terribly without starch.

 

[BobbyDukes]

Avoiding starch is definitely a challenge for me. My body will get ravenous cravings for something starchy. Moments of weakness that I have to manage.

Does anyone know of the top of their head what Peat says about the amylase enzyme that humans are meant to have for breaking starch down? This would imply that we have been starch eaters. But I know, it doesn't mean it is good for us.