Is It Really Possible To Ditch The Starch?

[DaveFoster]

Hi Zachs,
One of the things that struck me was the large mismatch between your calorie intake, which from what you say is probably pretty close to your calorie burn, and cronometers estimate of your burn - out by almost half.

I noticed this as well. CRON-O-meter is designed for people who calorie restrict, so they slow their metabolic rate over time.

 

[supercoolguy]

Somebody needs to create a starch algorithm that plugs into the Cronometer and connects directly to the cardiovascular system showing the effects that, can be monitored by a Spider Monkey, THEN they can run the info into another data base of people that live at high altitudes. Compare the two.....Then launch a New App that tracks the starch molecule via GPS and sends text alerts every 2min to the users mobile device.

 

[Such_Saturation]

That will have to wait for the Galileo Positioning System, accurate enough to discern our head from our

 

[Dutchie]

Funny....this article came by on FB today. Apparently,according to research green tea contains some kind of abstract which reduces starch absorption.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... -food.html

 

[tara]

Hi Zachs,
One of the things that struck me was the large mismatch between your calorie intake, which from what you say is probably pretty close to your calorie burn, and cronometers estimate of your burn - out by almost half.

I noticed this as well. CRON-O-meter is designed for people who calorie restrict, so they slow their metabolic rate over time.

Yes indeed. It may also have some basis in studies that estimate calorie intake based on a few typically underestimated self reports. I'm in the habit of recommending cronometer, but warning people that the calorie requirements are generally underestimated. Zachs' post illustrated it so well.

 

[Such_Saturation]

The free apps are the same. You manage to get someone to install them and use them for micronutrients, then they immediately start freaking out about "calorie goals". Might as well avoid the expense of Cronometer and get them the free ones.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I recently read something about chips that was talking about how many chip companies actually use potato flour as the base of the chip, which is crazy. Thats not even a real chip. Thats nothing like a fresh potato fried in coconut oil.

What exactly is/are the problem(s) you see with potato flour? Curious on your view because I also eat lots of potato.

You eat lots of potato or lots of potato flour?

I think the problem with flour is that it is flour. I think when Ray talks about starch particles, he's talking about flour products. This is something I'm looking into. I posit that it's the size of the particles that matter. So if there was a way to make "thick" flour to where to particles were much larger, such as may be the case with "stone-ground" flour as opposed to what a milling machine does, I think there is a difference.

A milling machine does something to the starch that is super unnatural, in that the human gut would never be exposed to a powder so fine. Even chocolate powder is a flour and it's not a starch. Many things can be made into flour and I think they cause problems because of what they do once they pass the gut wall. They wouldn't be able to do this if they weren't milled so fine. Thats' not to say all processing is "bad" because sugar cane is processed but it's not a flour.

 

[janus]

You eat lots of potato or lots of potato flour?

Potato. Never had the flour but am curious to try some recipes with it.

I think the problem with flour is that it is flour. I think when Ray talks about starch particles, he's talking about flour products. This is something I'm looking into. I posit that it's the size of the particles that matter. So if there was a way to make "thick" flour to where to particles were much larger, such as may be the case with "stone-ground" flour as opposed to what a milling machine does, I think there is a difference.

Hmm. I always thought the biggest problem with starches was their inability to be broken down enough to be fully digested.

A milling machine does something to the starch that is super unnatural, in that the human gut would never be exposed to a powder so fine. Even chocolate powder is a flour and it's not a starch. Many things can be made into flour and I think they cause problems because of what they do once they pass the gut wall. They wouldn't be able to do this if they weren't milled so fine. Thats' not to say all processing is "bad" because sugar cane is processed but it's not a flour.

I guess if the starch particles go directly into the bloodstream. Not sure if that doesn't already happen with regular digestion of starch. Dutch cocoa and masa harina are softened with alkali, so you might be able to do the same with potato.

 

[tara]

I was under the impression that the potential persorption problem with starches was about the small hard grains of starch. If they are thoroughly cooked in liquids, don't they gelatinise and no longer pose this threat? This might be rapidly absorbed and pose issues with sudden blood glucose rises, and they might be deficient in accompanying minerals, but not so much a persorption issue any more? I figure as thickener, this beats carrageenan, guar gum, and other gums commonly used in commercial 'food'.
I occasionally add a little starchy root flour to make desserts - eg custard, or thickened fruit puree. I guess it might be a goer for gluten free gravy, or thickened soups, though I don't have this habit?

Does this seem consistent with Peat's views?

 

[PeatThemAll]

That really is, it surprised me how much I was eating when I punched it in. But pufa is less than 10g or 2% of calories so it is still pretty ideal in that regard.

It's summer now and Iv beeN sweating like crazy so I can't say for certain that temps are higher but they are definitely optimal, pulse also is really good. I havnt experienced cold hands or feet in a long time. Calorie burn has to be at an all time high or else I'm just not utilizing a lot of the fat I'm eating but pooping is down to once or twice a day and I feel quite empty most of the time which is the biggest difference from the high carb days. I much prefer it. Energy is definitely better as well, I'm awake all day with no crash and nice and sleepy around bedtime.

for this thread and the detailed updates.

Any changes since your last post?

 

[PeatThemAll]

If you are "craving starch" eat a tablespoon of coconut oil with salt on top. Mystery solved

There are two problems with this. 1. A tablespoon of coconut oil is only 130 calories. 2. There’s no carbohydrate there, thus leaving him unsatisfied and without energy. Fat is not used for ATP production, glucose is. Starch=glucose.

That is only a practical example with the purpose of learning that a starch craving is not in fact a craving for starch. You only need to do it once.

So basically you're saying it's a caloric or caloric via high caloric density food fix, and the nature of the fix doesn't matter? By that logic, alcohol would be a good fix too, short-term.

 

[SQu]

post 105265 By that logic, alcohol would be a good fix too, short-term.

I have been wondering whether that's why some chronic dieters and 'weight watchers' get too fond of their glasses of wine.

 

[PeatThemAll]

post 105719

post 105265 By that logic, alcohol would be a good fix too, short-term.

I have been wondering whether that's why some chronic dieters and 'weight watchers' get too fond of their glasses of wine.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. I've seen enough Jeckyll & Hyde transformations, subtle and not so subtle, to believe of much of a kick this type of 'fuel' can give. For some, there's no (legal) equal.

 

[James IV]

I know this thread is older, but I wanted to see how Zachs is doing. I've had some serious ups and downs in my healing journey, and I am coming to a similar conclusion as to what works best for my body.

Interestingly, I know Dr Peat had said that a bacteria free colon would be ideal, and while that's likely impossible in a real life setting; A diet based around saturated fat, and simple sugars (particularly monosaccharides), with some easily assimilated protein, and very low fiber would keep most of your digestion in the small intestine, and would theoretically keep the colon fairly sparse.

My turning point was one weekend when I ate nothing but ice cream and salt for 48 hours. Interestingly I started having huge bowl movements that looked and smelled like they had been inside me for a long time. I had some weird symptoms I'm attributing to detox, but overall I felt much better than I have in a long time. When I went back to more whole fruit and starch, everything seemed to slow down again.

I'm currently doing salted whole milk and honey as my main source of calories, with bone broths containing small
Amounts of soft meat and anti fungal low residue veggies like mushrooms and carrots. I'm spitting out anything I can't chew into liquid.

Too early to tell anything, but it would be cool to get an update from Zachs.

 

[tyler]

I know this thread is older, but I wanted to see how Zachs is doing. I've had some serious ups and downs in my healing journey, and I am coming to a similar conclusion as to what works best for my body.

Interestingly, I know Dr Peat had said that a bacteria free colon would be ideal, and while that's likely impossible in a real life setting; A diet based around saturated fat, and simple sugars (particularly monosaccharides), with some easily assimilated protein, and very low fiber would keep most of your digestion in the small intestine, and would theoretically keep the colon fairly sparse.

My turning point was one weekend when I ate nothing but ice cream and salt for 48 hours. Interestingly I started having huge bowl movements that looked and smelled like they had been inside me for a long time. I had some weird symptoms I'm attributing to detox, but overall I felt much better than I have in a long time. When I went back to more whole fruit and starch, everything seemed to slow down again.

I'm currently doing salted whole milk and honey as my main source of calories, with bone broths containing small
Amounts of soft meat and anti fungal low residue veggies like mushrooms and carrots. I'm spitting out anything I can't chew into liquid.

Too early to tell anything, but it would be cool to get an update from Zachs.

Hey man, Zachs was banned unfortunately.
Definitely missing his insight..

 

[Jayfish]

This is quite the interesting thread, thanks for bumping it up!

 

[bobbybobbob]

I don't know about this starch persorption concern. I've never heard anyone other than Peat even mention it. I'm a bit skeptical. As far as I recall his evidence was rats and some blood draws from students, or something like that. It doesn't seem to be corroborated anywhere else as a valid thing to worry about.

Starch is to be eaten with butter/cheese/milk/cream. Who the hell eats dry toast, plain potatoes, or pasta without sauce? The fat mitigates any persporption and possibly also probably helps prevent any endotoxin absorption.

I'm gonna go ahead and lay my $20 down that a good pizza (no bad oil in the dough) is a perfectly fine food.

 

[Peater Piper]

There's a couple of interesting comments about persorption at the end of this article. I'm not so sure it's a huge concern either, given how many cultures eat substantial amounts of starch without issue. A bigger concern may be dysbiosis. If the intestinal flora in the colon is a mess, then starch could exacerbate the issue even further.

Glutinous Thoughts: Persorption of Resistant Starch Granules: Should We Be Worried?

 

[damngoodcoffee]

The starch being evil thing made sense to me because when i was a vegan eating mainly starch i felt horrible and my teeth went to ***t really fast.
But nowadays when i eat a good amount of animal products and juice, sugar etc. i feel fine. (and i eat starch at every meal).
Not eating starch is no way to live imo. Unnatural, unfun. And i don't think one needs a huge amount of fat with the starch, just what's naturally in low fat meat, cheese, eggs, coconut milk etc. And fructose helps a lot too.
This is my conclusion.

 

[DaveFoster]

I like starch, but it always makes me feel awful. Every single time. All my posts on starch say the same thing because I keep trying to reintroduce it, but I continue to suffer for it.

Now salted, fried meat seems to give no problems in reasonable quantities, and seasoned chicken breast with some fruit (or juice/milk) is pretty delicious.