Is It Really Possible To Ditch The Starch?

[damngoodcoffee]

While starch definitely has its negatives, i still feel like it's calming, grounding and warming. I haven't been able to be without starch for more than a day. I get into that annoying fatigued adrenaline-state, can't concentrate, have no stamina for basic activities and feel like i'm about to have a panick attack. I try to eat a lot of sugar, protein, salt and some butter/coconut oil but at some point i just feel like i can't put any of this in my mouth anymore, give me the starch!! Then i eat some starch and feel calm right away. Is it just that i have to eat 24/7? And put huge amounts of salt into everything? It seems really unrealistic lifestyle to be eating all the time (and still not feel optimal). At least starch with its downsides, gives me the energy to go few hours without eating and feel good.
Is it all just some starch-withdrawal? Should i just fight through it? (sounds a lot like some vegan or low carb-detox/purity-rabbit hole... :? )

 

[narouz]

While starch definitely has its negatives, i still feel like it's calming, grounding and warming. I haven't been able to be without starch for more than a day. I get into that annoying fatigued adrenaline-state, can't concentrate, have no stamina for basic activities and feel like i'm about to have a panick attack. I try to eat a lot of sugar, protein, salt and some butter/coconut oil but at some point i just feel like i can't put any of this in my mouth anymore, give me the starch!! Then i eat some starch and feel calm right away. Is it just that i have to eat 24/7? And put huge amounts of salt into everything? It seems really unrealistic lifestyle to be eating all the time (and still not feel optimal). At least starch with its downsides, gives me the energy to go few hours without eating and feel good.
Is it all just some starch-withdrawal? Should i just fight through it? (sounds a lot like some vegan or low carb-detox/purity-rabbit hole... :? )

We were talking about this over in another thread a while back...
http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6718&p=82009&hilit=starch+addictive#p82009

 

[jyb]

I get into that annoying fatigued adrenaline-state, can't concentrate, have no stamina for basic activities and feel like i'm about to have a panick attack.

That's stress and energy deficiency, you're doing the opposite of Peat principles. The diet you have is harming you, no matter what supplements you're taking or not taking.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I'm sorry if this is an unnecessary thread. I suppose i would just like to hear more about peoples experiences about the possible withdrawal, or has it just been a walk in the park to quit eating starch.
Yeah jyb i don't really like to torture myself, if i crave the starch(or whatever) i will eat it. :)

 

[Nicholas]

you can't make the assumption that not eating starch is what is causing your lack of energy, etc. and i say that being a starch-eater. when you say "sugar" do you mean table sugar? if so, that would explain a lot of the problem. salt excess, too. but even that is not the only variable. are you eating enough, eating frequently enough, getting fruit/veg fiber, nutrient deficient, getting bad sleep, etc. craving starches specifically sounds to me like a general calorie deficiency. you can eat starches and not madly crave them or feel them to be the bulk of your diet. i would look at all the other variables and balance them first and *then* begin adding a *little* bit of starch consistently. there can be great health benefits and nutrient density with root vegetables. a good safe way to begin root vegetables is to roast them till they are very soft. mix potatoes with less starchy parsnips to balance the starch - and even add sweet potatoes for even more added nutrients. boiling roots increases the insoluble fiber content. let roasted roots cool in the fridge and only eat them cold or slightly re-heated. in the beginning, balance starch with fruits so you have good fiber to push things along. do not add butter like peat recommends because this could confuse the experimentation process.

 

[pboy]

its possible, not easy, but possible. I tried to eat some starch the other night....after not having had any for about...***t, 4 months now...and it was laughable, so yea...its like I don't know how I survived growing up on such things, or at any point in my life....tasteless chalk that had me with each bite craving for other things ravenously, yet I finished it. My 24 GI cycle pushed back...like I could tell I was still passing that meal out, the next n ight and morning after that. The way I felt was basically grotesque, as if I had doen something terrible, and it wasn't in my head, my breath got hot and nasty which never happens, and just random odors and ***t...it was like holy dam, starch isn't food. Maybe peeps think im exaggerating, maybe im sensitive, and have high ideals...but its definitely a huge notch down. The biggest thing too was that I was craving cheese the whole time, and only that...everything else looked like...it would only make the problem worse, it was surely a calcium thing, so in that sense alone, the parathyroid offense that starches...all but a few roots, bring, is pretty bad right there, and the GI stagnation is also so bad its like 2 different worlds. When im working and in public I sometimes cant even relate to the zombieness and overall malaise that people have...its like are you all dumb? Wake up!...then after that starch meal, I was like...oh, that's why

 

[Nicholas]

i can relate to pboy's experience but only with grain products. grains seem like a very lifeless thing to eat (never tried grains prepared in traditional ways). as pboy says in another thread:

"ill also add that, it seems a good amount of sugar and protein and stuff, especially sugar, if its just like 1 starch meal, with enough other non starch food later that day or the morning the next day, the starch effects can be overcome...so its only a problem if you eat it all the time and never take a break (which unfortuneately most people in a lot of the world do)"

i think this is the overlooked matter and what causes so many people to say starch cannot be in your diet. are all the other variables balanced? eating too much starch? the wrong kind for you? do you not eat starches for a week, the rest of your diet is screwed, and then binge on starches because you're mad hungry? do you add tons of fat to them? do you cook them improperly? there are too many great nutrients to miss out on if you can handle them....and calorie density for people who are very physically active or people who, for whatever reason, need less liquid in their diet.

 

[Such_Saturation]

calorie density

 

[Nicholas]

S_S: 1cup of grapes=62 calories. 1cup of potatoes=116 calories.
i may have missed it, but another factor that is not brought into the discussion often with starch is that if you have a high caloric demand and eat predominately carbohydrates, some people have a new set of problems by having to get all of those carb calories from fruit. fruits can be problematic because of the often low quality and from the water content.

 

[Zachs]

i swapped Starch for saturated fat, Best dietary decision yet.

 

[Zachs]

S_S: 1cup of grapes=62 calories. 1cup of potatoes=116 calories.
i may have missed it, but another factor that is not brought into the discussion often with starch is that if you have a high caloric demand and eat predominately carbohydrates, some people have a new set of problems by having to get all of those carb calories from fruit. fruits can be problematic because of the often low quality and from the water content.

I would say one should get most of their carbs from lactose and other simple sugars. Fruit after that, getting the bulk of your calories from fruit can be problematic, I'm starting to think the majority of fruit is a net negative on health.

 

[Such_Saturation]

A cup of grapes has around 110 kcal

 

[YuraCZ]

I feel exactly like you damngoodcoffee without starches.. Rice and potatoes are essential for me for many reasons. Unfortunately I don't have the access to good quality fruits like a someone in the Thailand and I can't drink OJ or eat dried fruits..

 

[damngoodcoffee]

you can't make the assumption that not eating starch is what is causing your lack of energy, etc. and i say that being a starch-eater. when you say "sugar" do you mean table sugar? if so, that would explain a lot of the problem. salt excess, too. but even that is not the only variable. are you eating enough, eating frequently enough, getting fruit/veg fiber, nutrient deficient, getting bad sleep, etc. craving starches specifically sounds to me like a general calorie deficiency. you can eat starches and not madly crave them or feel them to be the bulk of your diet. i would look at all the other variables and balance them first and *then* begin adding a *little* bit of starch consistently. there can be great health benefits and nutrient density with root vegetables. a good safe way to begin root vegetables is to roast them till they are very soft. mix potatoes with less starchy parsnips to balance the starch - and even add sweet potatoes for even more added nutrients. boiling roots increases the insoluble fiber content. let roasted roots cool in the fridge and only eat them cold or slightly re-heated. in the beginning, balance starch with fruits so you have good fiber to push things along. do not add butter like peat recommends because this could confuse the experimentation process.

By sugar i mean OJ, grapes, lactose, and some table sugar in my coffee and sometimes in milk. I'm not eating some crazy amount of salt. Yeah getting enough calories is kinda challenging to me, but even when i have eaten a lot i still crave starch. Not really when i'm just at home chilling but when i've been active i get that restless feeling that won't shut down without starch. Maybe i'm just additected to that sedative starch-coma. :p My sleep has been quite nice lately. About 8-10 hours a night. Oh man i definitely can't eat starch without butter. Did enough of that on my vegan-days. It's a real job to get it down and it doesn't feel too good in my stomach.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

i swapped Starch for saturated fat, Best dietary decision yet.

I'm definitely a friend of butter and coconut oil as it is, but this is something i've been thinking about. Are those your main sources? How do you use them without starch?

 

[YuraCZ]

I would say one should get most of their carbs from lactose and other simple sugars. Fruit after that, getting the bulk of your calories from fruit can be problematic, I'm starting to think the majority of fruit is a net negative on health.

What other simple sugars besides lactose and then fruits? sugar(sucrose) ? It's like you saying sugar(sucrose) > potatoes for example..? lol

 

[mt_dreams]

Is is possible to ditch the starch? Yes.

If you have been consuming it often, there will be a transition phase once you stop that may last a month or so as your digestion bacteria either die off or switch to the other fuel sources. This will sometimes feel like you are not full even though you just ate a meal, and sometimes it will be a strong craving for the starch. Feeding these gut bacteria starch has an effect similar to opium, so it's understandable the feeling you are experiencing.

If not eating starch is stressing you out, the best bet would be to continue to eat it while you fix other possible problem areas.

If you want to make the no starch process easier, maybe trying something that will remove/kill off some of the bacteria. things like pau d'arco, flower of sulfur, carrots if you tolerate, etc.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

If you have been consuming it often, there will be a transition phase once you stop that may last a month or so as your digestion bacteria either die off or switch to the other fuel sources. This will sometimes feel like you are not full even though you just ate a meal, and sometimes it will be a strong craving for the starch. Feeding these gut bacteria starch has an effect similar to opium, so it's understandable the feeling you are experiencing.

Thanks man, i was thinking there might be this kinda action happening. Has Ray talked about this?
Maybe i should just clear my calender for a month and just chill at home to avoid stress during this time.

 

[Nicholas]

another quote from pboy on a thread about starch and fat gain: "Another thing about starch is you have to consider the source. If the food is abundant in potassium and other electryolytes like root vegetables, youll be able to store all the sugar as glycogen, because some amount is required to do so...but if its an empty source like grains or sweetener, its more likely to become fat because the body has to get it out of the blood stream, and if not able to use elecs to store it as glycogen, it is more likely to become fat."

I'm curious how many people here have had endotoxin issues with moderate eating of potatoes (low starch types like new or golden), turnips, parsnips, sweet potatoes, and other root vegetables? and were you sure that it was endotoxin? did you roast them or boil them? and were you sure that it created endotoxin issues and not some other variable in your diet? and were you positive of this? i've heard others say this, but i believe grain starches are a whole other category and have to be considered in a separate discussion.

what i am coming to see is that the best position is to always assume any natural food is not inherently bad for us....it's just a matter of making use of that food.

 

[Such_Saturation]

If you are "craving starch" eat a tablespoon of coconut oil with salt on top. Mystery solved