Applying Peat Principles To Low-Carb High-Saturated Fat: Incredible Results

[Jam]

LDL cholesterol is the cholesterol we eat from food and if it's high it doesn't mean we eat a lot of cholesterol ( one time i ate 24 eggs a day for a period and still had 86LDL)as I said is high if we are hypothyroid and we don't convert the cholesterol into hormones (pregnenolone, progesterone, testosterone),the cholesterol will remain in our blood and the measurements will be high and that's bad. Egg is such a good food for hormones only if you can use that cholesterol.
The masai tribe were eating so much animal fats and foods and they are used as exemple but that's wrong because I doubt they were hypothyroid and so they were converting the needed cholesterol to hormones ( that's why they were so androgenic.)

Well then consider me as originating from an Italian offshoot of the Masai tribe, I guess I don't agree that high LDL necessarily equates to low steroidogenesis. There are innumerable examples of people with sky-high LDL and very good steroidogenesis. Then again, I have never had high LDL, and it may be even lower now. I am certainly not deficient in the androgenic hormones. I have always been a bit low in estrogen, though. I am definitely also not hypothyroid.

 

[Jon2547]

First off, a disclaimer perhaps: I'm not sick and have no major health issues, besides a (now healing) periodontitis and (a now completely banished) arthritic condition. I was not really overweight before, but I did have a bit of what I think was visceral fat (typical smallish beer/wheat belly).

Also, apologies for the riff on the other (veganism) thread's title.

I think this is very interesting, but for a totally different (to the veganism), and paradoxical, reason.

So, applying Peat "principles" to a lower carb, very high saturated fat diet works so much better, for me, than a high carb diet. My current macros are 65-70% fat (most of it saturated, linoleic intake remains consistently below 5g), 15-20% carbs (mostly fruit, honey, and milk), and the rest protein. Before, I was eating 55-60% carbs and 25-30% fat, so not quite inverted compared to now, but close. I have been eating this way for a bit more than a year by now.

All of the parameters that should normally be optimal on a high carb, low-moderate fat diet, for me are actually much more so on lower carbs. Those parameters that are normally associated with efficient glucose oxidation, high co2, low inflammation, etc. feel actually optimal vs. good now compared to before.

Many of the usual interventions touted around these parts, such as raising co2, supplementing with the fat soluble vitamins, aspirin, increasing the NAD/NADH ratio, etc. became either mostly redundant, or work even better now.

I've always had optimal co2 levels based on a bunch of parameters, and decreasing carb intake to 50-100g from 250-350g has changed absolutely nothing in that department. If anything, they have improved. Contrary to what is touted by some. Paradoxical?

No need to supplement the fat-solubles as I'm well over the RDA now with the high (mainly saturated) fat intake.

Aspirin does absolutely nothing for me now. I haven't had a single headache for over a year (but never really suffered from them very often), and all of my arthritic pains are completely gone (not like aspirin ever helped much there, but it did do something) mostly thanks to various quinones (including Pau D'Arco, Emodin, and Mk4). So, aspirin, for me, is now totally useless.

The quinones work much, much better now. I have cut the dose of my daily Kuinone and Lapodin by half, and the sciatica, shoulder, and wrist pains have not returned. Before cutting the carbs, this would invariably happen. Yes, the quinones are absolutely miraculous substances, I can't recommend them highly enough.

I've always been an efficient glucose oxidizer. In more recent times, I did suffer from the occasional temporary fatigue (requiring a 15-minute nap) following those huge carb-laden meals due to the massive insulin spike and subsequent physiological reactive hypoglycemia, but I learned to mitigate that by eating a bit more saturated fat with the carbs. But I really do believe that I have reached an even more optimal (for me) state in this regard. Suffice it to say that I am never tired now. I have to force myself to go to sleep, but when I do hit the bed I'm asleep in a matter of minutes, vs. feeling tired before but not being able to immediately fall asleep. I woke up refreshed before, but perhaps even more so now.

My blood glucose is much more optimal now. It was never problematic, but due to the see-sawing insulin inherent to high-carb diets, I was often hungry between meals, and sometimes (as mentioned above) would required a 15-minute nap.

I am no longer hungry, ever. I used to wake up with a gaping hole in my stomach that had to be filled at all costs. Now, I just enjoy eating for the sheer pleasure. And I don't skimp on the calories now, I never have. I can now eat lunch (even "just" a 200g pot of creme fraiche with a bit of honey and a fair bit of blueberries or strawberries, a nice espresso, and no longer start feeling ravenously hungry around 4-5pm. I could probably skip dinner without feeling hungry (so this is something to watch out for, I wouldn't ever recommend undereating), but I have a nice steak drowned in butter, or something, anyways, for the sheer pleasure of it.

I am no longer bloated. I used to grow a nice belly after carb-heavy meals, due to all that additional h2o and fermentation, probably. Probably also some cortisol involved (my cortisol generally feels lower now). Since fat provides 9 calories versus 4 gram-for-gram compared to carbs, and there are no gnarly fibers involved, I am ingesting much less volume and my stomach has not bloated in a long while now.

I have much more energy. I had a lot before, but have even more, now. Oxidizing fat produces much more ATP compared to oxidizing glucose, even though some people inexplicably sustain the opposite. All the talk about blocking fatty acid oxidation, lipolysis, and whatnot MUST start differentiating between PUFA and SATURATED fats. I would scream this from rooftops if it wasn't so cold out. All studies out there, especially animal studies, that portray fat in a negative light, are ALL using high-PUFA and low-SATURATED fat diets/chow.

Additionally, my temps have gone up, although I have always had good temps. From 36.7C - 36.9C to a steady 37C throughout the day. 36.8C upon waking (used to be 36.6C on waking). It is known that saturated fat increases brown thermogenic fat.

So there you have it. Sorry for for the long-winded post, I have probably bored you all enough f

Thanks for the input. So, I've tried what you're proposing, and while it may work for some, I'll do without the ravenous, incessant hunger that comes from eating high carb/low fat meals. I was always starving, no matter how many carbs I could manage to shove down due to the insulin seesaw, until

First off, a disclaimer perhaps: I'm not sick and have no major health issues, besides a (now healing) periodontitis and (a now completely banished) arthritic condition. I was not really overweight before, but I did have a bit of what I think was visceral fat (typical smallish beer/wheat belly).

Also, apologies for the riff on the other (veganism) thread's title.

I think this is very interesting, but for a totally different (to the veganism), and paradoxical, reason.

So, applying Peat "principles" to a lower carb, very high saturated fat diet works so much better, for me, than a high carb diet. My current macros are 65-70% fat (most of it saturated, linoleic intake remains consistently below 5g), 15-20% carbs (mostly fruit, honey, and milk), and the rest protein. Before, I was eating 55-60% carbs and 25-30% fat, so not quite inverted compared to now, but close. I have been eating this way for a bit more than a year by now.

All of the parameters that should normally be optimal on a high carb, low-moderate fat diet, for me are actually much more so on lower carbs. Those parameters that are normally associated with efficient glucose oxidation, high co2, low inflammation, etc. feel actually optimal vs. good now compared to before.

Many of the usual interventions touted around these parts, such as raising co2, supplementing with the fat soluble vitamins, aspirin, increasing the NAD/NADH ratio, etc. became either mostly redundant, or work even better now.

I've always had optimal co2 levels based on a bunch of parameters, and decreasing carb intake to 50-100g from 250-350g has changed absolutely nothing in that department. If anything, they have improved. Contrary to what is touted by some. Paradoxical?

No need to supplement the fat-solubles as I'm well over the RDA now with the high (mainly saturated) fat intake.

Aspirin does absolutely nothing for me now. I haven't had a single headache for over a year (but never really suffered from them very often), and all of my arthritic pains are completely gone (not like aspirin ever helped much there, but it did do something) mostly thanks to various quinones (including Pau D'Arco, Emodin, and Mk4). So, aspirin, for me, is now totally useless.

The quinones work much, much better now. I have cut the dose of my daily Kuinone and Lapodin by half, and the sciatica, shoulder, and wrist pains have not returned. Before cutting the carbs, this would invariably happen. Yes, the quinones are absolutely miraculous substances, I can't recommend them highly enough.

I've always been an efficient glucose oxidizer. In more recent times, I did suffer from the occasional temporary fatigue (requiring a 15-minute nap) following those huge carb-laden meals due to the massive insulin spike and subsequent physiological reactive hypoglycemia, but I learned to mitigate that by eating a bit more saturated fat with the carbs. But I really do believe that I have reached an even more optimal (for me) state in this regard. Suffice it to say that I am never tired now. I have to force myself to go to sleep, but when I do hit the bed I'm asleep in a matter of minutes, vs. feeling tired before but not being able to immediately fall asleep. I woke up refreshed before, but perhaps even more so now.

My blood glucose is much more optimal now. It was never problematic, but due to the see-sawing insulin inherent to high-carb diets, I was often hungry between meals, and sometimes (as mentioned above) would required a 15-minute nap.

I am no longer hungry, ever. I used to wake up with a gaping hole in my stomach that had to be filled at all costs. Now, I just enjoy eating for the sheer pleasure. And I don't skimp on the calories now, I never have. I can now eat lunch (even "just" a 200g pot of creme fraiche with a bit of honey and a fair bit of blueberries or strawberries, a nice espresso, and no longer start feeling ravenously hungry around 4-5pm. I could probably skip dinner without feeling hungry (so this is something to watch out for, I wouldn't ever recommend undereating), but I have a nice steak drowned in butter, or something, anyways, for the sheer pleasure of it.

I am no longer bloated. I used to grow a nice belly after carb-heavy meals, due to all that additional h2o and fermentation, probably. Probably also some cortisol involved (my cortisol generally feels lower now). Since fat provides 9 calories versus 4 gram-for-gram compared to carbs, and there are no gnarly fibers involved, I am ingesting much less volume and my stomach has not bloated in a long while now.

I have much more energy. I had a lot before, but have even more, now. Oxidizing fat produces much more ATP compared to oxidizing glucose, even though some people inexplicably sustain the opposite. All the talk about blocking fatty acid oxidation, lipolysis, and whatnot MUST start differentiating between PUFA and SATURATED fats. I would scream this from rooftops if it wasn't so cold out. All studies out there, especially animal studies, that portray fat in a negative light, are ALL using high-PUFA and low-SATURATED fat diets/chow.

Additionally, my temps have gone up, although I have always had good temps. From 36.7C - 36.9C to a steady 37C throughout the day. 36.8C upon waking (used to be 36.6C on waking). It is known that saturated fat increases brown thermogenic fat.

So there you have it. Sorry for for the long-winded post, I have probably bored you all enough for today.

I've been doing the type of diet that you are on, more or less, and it works great for me. And I agree with what you said about making a distinction between PUFA and Saturated fats. If I had a dollar for every time the two were conflated.

 

[Braveheart]

Well, I get enough carbs to fill up my glycogen tank, I just really don't see why I would want any more than that. I would probably need a bit more if I were an athlete (even though that is debatable), but I'm not -- 100g of carbs are more than enough for me. I've never felt better, am never tired, never hungry, and have huge energy reserves...

Same for me....

 

[OccamzRazer]

Hi Jam, I'm brand new here but wanted to chime in. After much experimentation I've stumbled onto a very similar way of eating!

Doing best on a high fat, low carb diet that includes most Peat principles. I eat ~ 250 grams of fat a day (almost all of it from coconut oil, beef, and whole milk) and be sure to stay under 5 grams PUFA.

 

[Razvan]

Hi Jam, I'm brand new here but wanted to chime in. After much experimentation I've stumbled onto a very similar way of eating!

Doing best on a high fat, low carb diet that includes most Peat principles. I eat ~ 250 grams of fat a day (almost all of it from coconut oil, beef, and whole milk) and be sure to stay under 5 grams PUFA.

Oh ***t...

 

[cjm]

No need to supplement the fat-solubles as I'm well over the RDA now with the high (mainly saturated) fat intake.

Aspirin does absolutely nothing for me now. I haven't had a single headache for over a year (but never really suffered from them very often), and all of my arthritic pains are completely gone (not like aspirin ever helped much there, but it did do something) mostly thanks to various quinones (including Pau D'Arco, Emodin, and Mk4). So, aspirin, for me, is now totally useless.

The quinones work much, much better now. I have cut the dose of my daily Kuinone and Lapodin by half, and the sciatica, shoulder, and wrist pains have not returned. Before cutting the carbs, this would invariably happen. Yes, the quinones are absolutely miraculous substances, I can't recommend them highly enough.

Very cool!

For better or worse, I'm following my girlfriend down the Keto path. I'm trailing behind so I can pick up fresh oranges and honey and save my sanity. She is counting carbs, no more than 25g a day. Peat is too dominant in this brain to abandon him for a second, for better or worse, lol. Sugar gets no criticism from me, and that might be a problem. Ad lib consumption might be 500g on a Saturday night between pizza and 7-11. I'm actually excited to try this. My girlfriend cooks and is motivated. Easier to abstain from junk when it's a near religious aversion to carbs for her atm.

Love my Vitamin E, did you ever supplement previously with good results?

Same observations with aspirin.

LOVE the quinones. MK-4 picked me up out of some dark holes.

Additionally, my temps have gone up, although I have always had good temps. From 36.7C - 36.9C to a steady 37C throughout the day. 36.8C upon waking (used to be 36.6C on waking). It is known that saturated fat increases brown thermogenic fat.

Awesome.

I was always starving, no matter how many carbs I could manage to shove down due to the insulin seesaw, until I was able to get some real hearty food down at the dinner table.

Yeah, more frequent real food feedings, less room for bullshite.

I've never felt better, am never tired, never hungry, and have huge energy reserves...

Awesome. You're running on automatic.

This is a delicate balance and makes a big difference for satiety I think. Too much starch, fruit, liquid, fibre etc to feel “full“ without enough fat can often come with obvious downsides, likewise not enough substance and too much concentrated fat often leads to issues. Sounds like you’ve found your Goldilocks zone.

Agreed. Pretty inspiring given all the positive changes.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Oh ***t...

Haha what

 

[AndrogenicJB]

I think you were eating too much fat before and also saturated fat is very calming along with calcium to phosphate ratio. I see your calcium to phosphate is ok so might be this. I don't think we should be eating carbs and fats together and before you were getting 30% of fats and that's too much in combination with carbs. Best approach is to eat only carbs and little protein until 6pm and eating saturated fat with protein only before bed(Cheese, cottage cheese,dark chocolate , coconut oil and salt) while having calcium more or equal to phosphate always during the day.

what's wrong with mixing carbs fat and protein in each meal. If you were to eat only protein and fat in the afternoon how would you refill muscle glycogen if you had worked out in the evening.

 

[Razvan]

what's wrong with mixing carbs fat and protein in each meal. If you were to eat only protein and fat in the afternoon how would you refill muscle glycogen if you had worked out in the evening.

No, that was a way of doing it for people who can barely oxideze carbs. When adding too much fat to carbs even tho it is saturated fat you interact with the randle cycle and if you are unhealthy you can't utilize glucose. At your age this isn't a problem especially when eating 80g of fat a day.
Some people replenish the glycogen during the day and at night they only eat fat which can be very relaxing before sleeping.
If you keep a max of 20g of fat per meal you should be fine.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

No, that was a way of doing it for people who can barely oxideze carbs. When adding too much fat to carbs even tho it is saturated fat you interact with the randle cycle and if you are unhealthy you can't utilize glucose. At your age this isn't a problem especially when eating 80g of fat a day.
Some people replenish the glycogen during the day and at night they only eat fat which can be very relaxing before sleeping.
If you keep a max of 20g of fat per meal you should be fine.

What about if you have all your fat in the morning - my current breakfast is around 60g fat, 150 carbs 72 grams of protein. Also for some reason since I have been increasing my sat fat intake, before it was more mufa with olive oil etc, my libido has noticely dropped

 

[Jam]

No, that was a way of doing it for people who can barely oxideze carbs. When adding too much fat to carbs even tho it is saturated fat you interact with the randle cycle and if you are unhealthy you can't utilize glucose. At your age this isn't a problem especially when eating 80g of fat a day.
Some people replenish the glycogen during the day and at night they only eat fat which can be very relaxing before sleeping.
If you keep a max of 20g of fat per meal you should be fine.

Excessively spiking insulin with a high-fat meal can be problematic for obvious reasons, and it has nothing to do with the Randle Cycle, which occurs on a cellular level and not systemically. And in such cases, the more saturated the fats, the better the outcome, so no, I don't agree with that statement at all. Saturated fat can lead to local insulin resistance in the adipocytes, blunting the effects of insulin thus resulting in less fat being stored than when eating large amounts of PUFA with carbs. In my opinion, If protein intake is high enough, mixing carbs with saturated fat is not an issue at all.

Love my Vitamin E, did you ever supplement previously with good results?

I don't supplement with Vitamin E, my PUFA intake is so low that I don't really see the need for anything beyond what I get from the diet.

 

[OccamzRazer]

For better or worse, I'm following my girlfriend down the Keto path. I'm trailing behind so I can pick up fresh oranges and honey and save my sanity. She is counting carbs, no more than 25g a day. Peat is too dominant in this brain to abandon him for a second, for better or worse, lol. Sugar gets no criticism from me, and that might be a problem. Ad lib consumption might be 500g on a Saturday night between pizza and 7-11. I'm actually excited to try this. My girlfriend cooks and is motivated. Easier to abstain from junk when it's a near religious aversion to carbs for her atm.

Have you ever tried eating low carb, but not ketogenic? Like 100 grams a day? There might still be room for some fruit + honey that way lol.

For me ~100 grams of daily CHO provides the reduced cravings of keto without the associated tiredness...

 

[Jam]

Have you ever tried eating low carb, but not ketogenic? Like 100 grams a day? There might still be room for some fruit + honey that way lol.

For me ~100 grams of daily CHO provides the reduced cravings of keto without the associated tiredness...

Yeah this is what works best for me. Enough protein (120+ grams), 50-100g of carbs as fruit and honey with as little starch as possible, and the rest from as much saturated fat as I can gobble down. The satiety is insane, with absolutely zero bloating.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Yeah this is what works best for me. Enough protein (120+ grams), 50-100g of carbs as fruit and honey with as little starch as possible, and the rest from as much saturated fat as I can gobble down. The satiety is insane, with absolutely zero bloating.

Yes! Glad you're getting such great results. How long did it take for you to dial in this way of eating? For me, about 5 years - I'm 26 now - but better late than never.

The no-bloating thing is one of my favorite aspects of it. I can eat 4-5,000 calories a day with no bloating or digestive issues.

 

[cjm]

Have you ever tried eating low carb, but not ketogenic? Like 100 grams a day? There might still be room for some fruit + honey that way lol.

For me ~100 grams of daily CHO provides the reduced cravings of keto without the associated tiredness...

Haha, daily CHO. Yeah, low-ish carb is what gonna end up happening. I'll eat the keto meals and add juice.

Yeah this is what works best for me. Enough protein (120+ grams), 50-100g of carbs as fruit and honey with as little starch as possible, and the rest from as much saturated fat as I can gobble down.

I could chug a pint of heavy cream right now.

 

[Jam]

Haha, daily CHO. Yeah, low-ish carb is what gonna end up happening. I'll eat the keto meals and add juice.



I could chug a pint of heavy cream right now.

Haha, tell me about it . My favorite "snack" (can replace an entire meal if on the run) is a 200g pot of crème fraiche with honey and a fistful of whatever berries I have lying around.

 

[Jam]

Yes! Glad you're getting such great results. How long did it take for you to dial in this way of eating? For me, about 5 years - I'm 26 now - but better late than never.

The no-bloating thing is one of my favorite aspects of it. I can eat 4-5,000 calories a day with no bloating or digestive issues.

Actually, I've pretty much always been eating like this. The only problem, previously, was the starch. Coming from a northern Italian background, a plate of some form of pasta (risotto drowned in extra butter and parmesan was my favorite) was a daily event for me. All I really did, about a year ago, was replace the pasta with more protein and more dairy, basically.

 

[OccamzRazer]

Actually, I've pretty much always been eating like this. The only problem, previously, was the starch. Coming from a northern Italian background, a plate of some form of pasta (risotto drowned in extra butter and parmesan was my favorite) was a daily event for me. All I really did, about a year ago, was replace the pasta with more protein and more dairy, basically.

Ah gotcha, even better then. Is it true that the traditional Italian diet is relatively lower in carbs (and higher in fats) than many mainstream sources reflect? I've heard people say that about traditional French cuisine.

 

[cjm]

Haha, tell me about it . My favorite "snack" (can replace an entire meal if on the run) is a 200g pot of crème fraiche with honey and a fistful of whatever berries I have lying around.

"It's all right here right now on Cafeteria Fraiche!" "La-la-la-la-la fraaaaaiche" "Ugh, that's so hot, look at that crust" {ref; South Park)

That's decadent, lol.

All I really did, about a year ago, was replace the pasta with more protein and more dairy, basically.

Do you cheat or crave pasta or other starch? Probably not. Starch is a mouthfeel, bellyfeel, for me. I wouldn't crave it if it didn't convince me it was soothing. Could just be the gluten opioids. Admit it, bread carries butter like a boss.

 

[Jam]

Ah gotcha, even better then. Is it true that the traditional Italian diet is relatively lower in carbs (and higher in fats) than many mainstream sources reflect? I've heard people say that about traditional French cuisine.

Yes, although it depends on the region, every region has a different cuisine, but yeah generally speaking this is true.