Applying Peat Principles To Veganism: Incredible Results

[Ritchie]

So as the title implies, I have been eating a vegan/plant based diet for the past 2.5 years or so. For about 3 years before that I was following a very well adhered to Peat inspired diet of milk, cheese, fruits, fruit juice, sugars, liver, some gelatinous meat cuts, gelatin, eggs, coffee, chocolate. Like many I didn't feel great eating this way and issues were arising.. Metabolism wasn't good, sleep wasn't great, and was getting what seemed to be endotoxic and estrogenic symptoms despite doing everything in attempt to achieve the opposite. I kept at it, read all of Peat's works along with reading a lot of this forum. The more I researched and thought about all the factors, though, the more my path led me toward a plant based diet and the more I realised certain foods I was eating were likely causing me health detriment despite eating them in an attempt to achieve optimal health. A lot here may not agree but I would say that a Peat perspective and paradigm approach to nutrition actually leads to a more plant based way of eating when thought about logically and consistently, particularly when some of his lets say weaker claims are thought through and ironed out.
I am now completely plant based. I eat lots of sweet juicy fruits, lots of orange juice and sugars, I eat lots of legumes such as lentils, black beans, red kidney beans, chic peas and the like. I eat cooked leafy greens and other cooked vegetables including mushrooms. I eat coconut oil, avocado, some nuts like almonds, dark chocolate, coffee, potatoes, rice, sweet potatoes, drink coke regularly and in general eat quite liberally. No meat and no dairy, no eggs although I do have some oysters once a month for the b12. I have progressively felt better and better, my temps have come up strongly, heart rate is good and strong, sleep is fantastic, feeling calm yet energised with a clear mindstate and my gym training is insane, recovery good and feeling very strong.
Now, I didn't want to make a post like this here until I had given it some time to adjust properly and see how the results are and how I'm feeling. After two and a half years I can 100% say that this is the best i've felt, best i've looked as well. I don't take any supplements anymore and don't feel I need them, I used to take t3 and t4 along with a bunch of other Peaty sups like cypro and pregnenolone and dhea, but have completely cut all that out and feel so much better for it. My bloods are on point, had them done recently and T is strong, estrogen low, thyroid at really good levels and everything else is great.
From the Peat perspective, I can think of a few reasons as to why this is working so well:
1.Very low tryptophan, methionine and cysteine as the plant based proteins are naturally low in these amino acids.
2. Zero heme iron.
3. Zero mamillian estrogens from the meat, dairy and eggs.
4. High energy, high sugar, high carbohydrate.
5. Low PUFA, good amount of coconut oil to keep the balance of saturated to unsaturated fats in a good ratio.
6. No IGF-1 or casomorphins from the dairy.
7. Zero of the controversial preformed vitamin A found in meat, liver, eggs, dairy.
8. Good quality protein from the legumes, potatoes, etc with very good amino acid profile.
9. Low phosphorus since animal products are the highest in this mineral.
10. No potential for eating oxidised cholesterol.
I'll leave it at that for now..
If anyone has any questions, critiques, challenges or anything else let me know, happy to answer and engage in discussion..

 

[redsun]

So as the title implies, I have been eating a vegan/plant based diet for the past 2.5 years or so. For about 3 years before that I was following a very well adhered to Peat inspired diet of milk, cheese, fruits, fruit juice, sugars, liver, some gelatinous meat cuts, gelatin, eggs, coffee, chocolate. Like many I didn't feel great eating this way and issues were arising.. Metabolism wasn't good, sleep wasn't great, and was getting what seemed to be endotoxic and estrogenic symptoms despite doing everything in attempt to achieve the opposite. I kept at it, read all of Peat's works along with reading a lot of this forum. The more I researched and thought about all the factors, though, the more my path led me toward a plant based diet and the more I realised certain foods I was eating were likely causing me health detriment despite eating them in an attempt to achieve optimal health. A lot here may not agree but I would say that a Peat perspective and paradigm approach to nutrition actually leads to a more plant based way of eating when thought about logically and consistently, particularly when some of his lets say weaker claims are thought through and ironed out.
I am now completely plant based. I eat lots of sweet juicy fruits, lots of orange juice and sugars, I eat lots of legumes such as lentils, black beans, red kidney beans, chic peas and the like. I eat cooked leafy greens and other cooked vegetables including mushrooms. I eat coconut oil, avocado, some nuts like almonds, dark chocolate, coffee, potatoes, rice, sweet potatoes, drink coke regularly and in general eat quite liberally. No meat and no dairy, no eggs although I do have some oysters once a month for the b12. I have progressively felt better and better, my temps have come up strongly, heart rate is good and strong, sleep is fantastic, feeling calm yet energised with a clear mindstate and my gym training is insane, recovery good and feeling very strong.
Now, I didn't want to make a post like this here until I had given it some time to adjust properly and see how the results are and how I'm feeling. After two and a half years I can 100% say that this is the best i've felt, best i've looked as well. I don't take any supplements anymore and don't feel I need them, I used to take t3 and t4 along with a bunch of other Peaty sups like cypro and pregnenolone and dhea, but have completely cut all that out and feel so much better for it. My bloods are on point, had them done recently and T is strong, estrogen low, thyroid at really good levels and everything else is great.
From the Peat perspective, I can think of a few reasons as to why this is working so well:
1.Very low tryptophan, methionine and cysteine as the plant based proteins are naturally low in these amino acids.
2. Zero heme iron.
3. Zero mamillian estrogens from the meat, dairy and eggs.
4. High energy, high sugar, high carbohydrate.
5. Low PUFA, good amount of coconut oil to keep the balance of saturated to unsaturated fats in a good ratio.
6. No IGF-1 or casomorphins from the dairy.
7. Zero of the controversial preformed vitamin A found in meat, liver, eggs, dairy.
8. Good quality protein from the legumes, potatoes, etc with very good amino acid profile.
9. Low phosphorus since animal products are the highest in this mineral.
10. No potential for eating oxidised cholesterol.
I'll leave it at that for now..
If anyone has any questions, critiques, challenges or anything else let me know, happy to answer and engage in discussion..

Please don't say oysters once a month are your only B12 source and you don't take B12 supplements because if that is that case you are going to get screwed over big time once B12 stores get low. B12 can only be absorbed in small amounts(2mcg every few hours). I don't care for another vegan thread but I felt the need to say this as even though I really dislike vegans, there's no reason for my enemies to get permanent nerve damage or worse

 

[Tenacity]

Please don't say oysters once a month are your only B12 source and you don't take B12 supplements because if that is that case you are going to get screwed over big time once B12 stores get low. B12 can only be absorbed in small amounts(2mcg every few hours). I don't care for another vegan thread but I felt the need to say this as even though I really dislike vegans, there's no reason for my enemies to get permanent nerve damage or worse

I agree with your advice but you paint with too broad a brush.

 

[Waremu]

Please don't say oysters once a month are your only B12 source and you don't take B12 supplements because if that is that case you are going to get screwed over big time once B12 stores get low. B12 can only be absorbed in small amounts(2mcg every few hours). I don't care for another vegan thread but I felt the need to say this as even though I really dislike vegans, there's no reason for my enemies to get permanent nerve damage or worse

Similar issue with zinc as well, but much worse due to the shorter life. One can't eat their full RDA of zinc in one sitting and it last them all day. So ideally, eating small amounts of zinc with each meal probably is one of the better ways to manage and maintain a healthy zinc status. A person can only consume enough zinc at a meal to last them two-thirds of their day. Some people avoid dairy and most zinc foods and think if they just have one oyster a day in one sitting or a few oysters once a week they are fine, but the body can't build up zinc and use it later like it can with B-12. The zinc issue is then further exacerbated if the person is masturbating/having sex 2-3 times per day or lactating, or trying to add muscle.

 

[redsun]

Similar issue with zinc as well, but much worse due to the shorter life. One can't eat their full RDA of zinc in one sitting and it last them all day. So ideally, eating small amounts of zinc with each meal probably is one of the better ways to manage and maintain a healthy zinc status. A person can only consume enough zinc at a meal to last them two-thirds of their day. Some people avoid dairy and most zinc foods and think if they just have one oyster a day in one sitting or a few oysters once a week they are fine, but the body can't build up zinc and use it later like it can with B-12.

Completely forgot about the zinc, good point. The B12 once a month was like a red flag that stood out above all else. Number one worst way to deal with B12, which only happens when one is ignorant about how B12 has to be absorbed.

 

[Ritchie]

Please don't say oysters once a month are your only B12 source and you don't take B12 supplements because if that is that case you are going to get screwed over big time once B12 stores get low. B12 can only be absorbed in small amounts(2mcg every few hours). I don't care for another vegan thread but I felt the need to say this as even though I really dislike vegans, there's no reason for my enemies to get permanent nerve damage or worse

My B12 is in the high percentile from my most recent bloods and has been throughout this entire period I've been eating plant based. But thanks for the tip i'll keep an eye on it, perhaps I'll eat oysters once a fortnight instead or get a B12 spray and have some of that once a week.

 

[redsun]

My B12 is in the high percentile from my most recent bloods and has been pretty much throughout this entire period I've been eating plant based. But thanks for the tip i'll keep an eye on it, perhaps I'll eat oysters once a fortnight instead or get a B12 spray and have some of that once a week.

I'm not familiar with how B12 tests work and whether they can measure how much you have in storage but there's quite a bit in storage that can last years.

 

[Ritchie]

Similar issue with zinc as well, but much worse due to the shorter life. One can't eat their full RDA of zinc in one sitting and it last them all day. So ideally, eating small amounts of zinc with each meal probably is one of the better ways to manage and maintain a healthy zinc status. A person can only consume enough zinc at a meal to last them two-thirds of their day. Some people avoid dairy and most zinc foods and think if they just have one oyster a day in one sitting or a few oysters once a week they are fine, but the body can't build up zinc and use it later like it can with B-12. The zinc issue is then further exacerbated if the person is masturbating/having sex 2-3 times per day or lactating, or trying to add muscle.

Whenever I plug a day of eating into chronometer my zinc levels are high. Are you aware that legumes like lentils and chickpeas have heaps of zinc in them? Same with almonds and oats among other things.

 

[Ritchie]

I'm not familiar with how B12 tests work and whether they can measure how much you have in storage but there's quite a bit in storage that can last years.

I think they measure your levels pretty accurately.

 

[redsun]

I think they measure your levels pretty accurately.

Yes, but I dont know if they measure storage B12 in the liver, if thats even possible. You may have normal B12 in the blood but when liver storage lowers enough would you get deficiency symptoms. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on this could chime in. I do know 100% there is B12 storage in the liver that can last for years without B12 intake.

Whenever I plug a day of eating into chronometer my zinc levels are high. Are you aware that legumes like lentils and chickpeas have heaps of zinc in them? Same with almonds and oats among other things.

The antinutrients in these foods greatly lower bioavailability of zinc and other minerals.

 

[Cirion]

I'm noticing the same. My only problem with vegan tho is I started to get too low protein and other problems. Also, starches have their own problems I found. Additionally, many starches are actually even higher in cystein/tryptophan than meat on a per gram protein basis. That said, I've never been able to get better waking temps than I was eating vegan. I also couldn't lose weight though on vegan, and that's a problem since I still have lots of weight to lose.

Currently, I'm back to more "normal" eating and that includes meat, but like you said, I'm finding I have to mega-dose T3 and the like to make it work, which seems sub-optimal to me, you shouldn't have to mega dose T3, but until I find a better option, it's what I'm doing for now.

 

[Cirion]

For all the haters, he has been doing it for 3 years and it seems like he's going strong. I for one noticed some symptoms far sooner, so I feel like if he was gonna get symptoms, he woulda got them far before now.

I still deep down feel like vegan is the answer. My waking temps are trash with meat in the diet. I'm only back to meat for the time being because meat + T3 is actually seemingly finally making me lose weight. Waking temps still trash even with T3, so not even T3 can counteract the anti metabolic effects of meat fully =/

 

[Ritchie]

Yes, but I dont know if they measure storage B12 in the liver, if thats even possible. You may have normal B12 in the blood but when liver storage lowers enough would you get deficiency symptoms. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on this could chime in. I do know 100% there is B12 storage in the liver that can last for years without B12 intake.

The doc told me that the bulk of people he sees with B12 deficiency eat a diet high in meat and dairy so there must be something else going on there that causes issues with B12 in people. In any case my B12 levels are high and I'm feeling good so I'll keep monitoring it and see how it goes, and perhaps eat oysters a bit more regularly like once a week or fortnight.

The antinutrients in these foods greatly lower bioavailability of zinc and other minerals.

That's a claim thrown around a lot.. Be great if you could get a bit more specific about these "anti nutrients", along with some evidence?
From experience this doesn't seem to be the case and my blood test results are certainly reflecting good amounts of zinc and all the other minerals. I've also seen a lot of research done showing that this concern of anti nutrients is completely alleviated when the food in question is prepared and cooked properly, which is also reflecting my experience.

 

[Cirion]

The doc told me that the bulk of people he sees with B12 deficiency eat a diet high in meat and dairy so there must be something else going on there that causes issues with B12 in people. In any case my B12 levels are high and I'm feeling good so I'll keep monitoring it and see how it goes, and perhaps eat oysters a bit more regularly like once a week or fortnight.

Yes, I posted an article awhile back that said meat eaters have the same chance to be B12 deficient as vegans. The counter-argument was well, that's because the average person eats low quality meat, but I don't buy that argument personally.

Could you post a sample day or two on cronometer? Thanks =)

 

[Waremu]

Whenever I plug a day of eating into chronometer my zinc levels are high. Are you aware that legumes like lentils and chickpeas have heaps of zinc in them? Same with almonds and oats among other things.

Yes, I am aware of that. Plant foods on average are still inferior to animal foods when it comes to not only zinc sources, but zinc utilization. One can get zinc from properly prepared plant foods if they so choose, but they likely would have to consume much more to make up for the decreased absorption, etc. Legumes/grains have anti-nutrients such as phytates which can impede zinc absorption. Vegan circles keep trying to downplay the effect of phytates, but it has been observed and studied as a real problem, particualry in poor countries where the diet is largely grain based, where poor zinc levels or deficiencies have been seen and studied. Soaking helps reduce them, but doesn't reduce them mostly or completely. Even other co-factors including animal protein (and other nutrients) itself increases zinc absorption/utilization, even of zinc containing plant foods such as legumes:

Effect of protein level and protein source on zinc absorption in humans. - PubMed - NCBI

"The effect of increasing levels of various protein sources on zinc absorption from a legume-based meal was studied in humans with the use of a radionuclide technique. The meals were extrinsically labelled with 65Zn and absorption was determined from measurements of the whole-body retention of the isotope. The mean fractional zinc absorption for the 13 meals was 24.7 +/- 6.9% and was only influenced by the protein content of the meal to a limited extent (r = 0.45). However, the amount of zinc absorbed from the meals was strongly correlated with both the protein (r = 0.85) and zinc content (r = 0.86): 5.9 +/- 1.7 mumol of zinc was absorbed from the basal bean meal which had the lowest protein content; the addition of low zinc chicken doubled the protein content and increased zinc absorption to 10.3 +/- 2.0 mumol; the addition of zinc-rich beef also doubled the protein content, however, zinc absorption was increased to 15.9 +/- 4.7 mumol. It is concluded that the zinc content of the main protein source of the diet determines the amount of zinc absorbed to a large extent. However, relatively small amounts of animal protein can significantly improve the value of a legume-based meal as a source of zinc."

 

[redsun]

The doc told me that the bulk of people he sees with B12 deficiency eat a diet high in meat and dairy so there must be something else going on there that causes issues with B12 in people. In any case my B12 levels are high and I'm feeling good so I'll keep monitoring it and see how it goes, and perhaps eat oysters a bit more regularly like once a week or fortnight.

That's a claim thrown around a lot.. Be great if you could get a bit more specific about these "anti nutrients", along with some evidence?
From experience this doesn't seem to be the case and my blood test results are certainly reflecting good amounts of zinc and all the other minerals. I've also seen a lot of research done showing that this concern of anti nutrients is completely alleviated when the food in question is prepared and cooked properly, which is also reflecting my experience.

Yes certain preparations can be made to reduce anti-nutrients.

Oxalates, tannins, phytic acid, phenolics to name a few. You can easily research these anti nutrients which affect mineral absorption big time.

Your doc is full of ***t. Animal foods are B12 sources but gut damage which is all too common nowadays can affect B12 absorption. The average american diet is plant based anyway, most eat very little dairy and eggs and even less meat and the meat is often chicken which is a garbage B12 source. Humans were getting B12 from organs and seafood mostly, later did we get access to milk which is a good B12 source. If you eat a good amount of eggs, milk, and red meat daily you will 100% not get B12 deficiency assuming you dont have a condition that affects absorption. Milk isnt even necessary, eggs and red meat would be more than enough and organs and seafood even better.

Keep in mind vegans are told to take B12(which 99% do) while "meat eaters"(which is a misnomer since most people eat very little meat and very poor quality aka low B12 meat) dont think twice about it because they eat chicken nuggets, hot dogs and bacon and a steak once in a blue moon at a restaurant.

 

[Ritchie]

I'm noticing the same. My only problem with vegan tho is I started to get too low protein and other problems. Also, starches have their own problems I found. Additionally, many starches are actually even higher in cystein/tryptophan than meat on a per gram protein basis. That said, I've never been able to get better waking temps than I was eating vegan. I also couldn't lose weight though on vegan, and that's a problem since I still have lots of weight to lose.

Currently, I'm back to more "normal" eating and that includes meat, but like you said, I'm finding I have to mega-dose T3 and the like to make it work, which seems sub-optimal to me, you shouldn't have to mega dose T3, but until I find a better option, it's what I'm doing for now.

Rice and potatoes both have very low tryptophan, methionine and cysteine levels. Haven't looked at the other starches..

Yeah I don't think it's good to be constantly taking T3 as a means to ramp up your metabolism. I think it could have a place in the beginning if you're metabolism is completely tanked, but to me it's a sign of there being a systemic issue if you have to keep taking it chronically.

 

[Waremu]

A large percentage of doctors today are not only a major cause of deaths in the US, but are also glorified drug dealers for their big pharma pimps. Many of them are grossly overweight and/or smoke or eat or poorly. I'll get advice from an ER doctor if in a accident. They do great work. Outside of that, the profession itself, to a large percentage of common folk, has lost quite a bit of credibility. In many ways, they're akin to the common personal trainers I see at the gyms here with bad physiques that eat at the McDonalds next door on break.

 

[Ritchie]

Yes, I am aware of that. Plant foods on average are still inferior to animal foods when it comes to not only zinc sources, but zinc utilization. One can get zinc from properly prepared plant foods if they so choose, but they likely would have to consume much more to make up for the decreased absorption, etc. Legumes/grains have anti-nutrients such as phytates which can impede zinc absorption. Vegan circles keep trying to downplay the effect of phytates, but it has been observed and studied as a real problem, particualry in poor countries where the diet is largely grain based, where poor zinc levels or deficiencies have been seen and studied. Soaking helps reduce them, but doesn't reduce them mostly or completely. Even other co-factors including animal protein (and other nutrients) itself increases zinc absorption/utilization, even of zinc containing plant foods such as legumes:

Effect of protein level and protein source on zinc absorption in humans. - PubMed - NCBI

"The effect of increasing levels of various protein sources on zinc absorption from a legume-based meal was studied in humans with the use of a radionuclide technique. The meals were extrinsically labelled with 65Zn and absorption was determined from measurements of the whole-body retention of the isotope. The mean fractional zinc absorption for the 13 meals was 24.7 +/- 6.9% and was only influenced by the protein content of the meal to a limited extent (r = 0.45). However, the amount of zinc absorbed from the meals was strongly correlated with both the protein (r = 0.85) and zinc content (r = 0.86): 5.9 +/- 1.7 mumol of zinc was absorbed from the basal bean meal which had the lowest protein content; the addition of low zinc chicken doubled the protein content and increased zinc absorption to 10.3 +/- 2.0 mumol; the addition of zinc-rich beef also doubled the protein content, however, zinc absorption was increased to 15.9 +/- 4.7 mumol. It is concluded that the zinc content of the main protein source of the diet determines the amount of zinc absorbed to a large extent. However, relatively small amounts of animal protein can significantly improve the value of a legume-based meal as a source of zinc."

Thanks for the article, I'll have a look at it. Like I said above, my bloods show high levels of zinc and the other minerals so I don't seem to be having any issues with absorption or utilisation.

 

[Ritchie]

A large percentage of doctors today are not only a major cause of deaths in the US, but are also glorified drug dealers for their big pharma pimps. Many of them are grossly overweight and/or smoke or eat or poorly. I'll get advice from an ER doctor if in a accident. They do great work. Outside of that, the profession itself, to a large percentage of common folk, has lost quite a bit of credibility. In many ways, they're akin to the common personal trainers I see at the gyms here with bad physiques and eat at the McDonalds next door on break.

Yeah sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that most people suffering from B12 deficiency eat alot of meat, dairy and eggs. That was the only reason I referenced the doc, because he told me that was his exact experience when I was getting my bloods done.