Applying Peat Principles To Low-Carb High-Saturated Fat: Incredible Results

Jam

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First off, a disclaimer perhaps: I'm not sick and have no major health issues, besides a (now healing) periodontitis and (a now completely banished) arthritic condition. I was not really overweight before, but I did have a bit of what I think was visceral fat (typical smallish beer/wheat belly).

Also, apologies for the riff on the other (veganism) thread's title.

I think this is very interesting, but for a totally different (to the veganism), and paradoxical, reason.

So, applying Peat "principles" to a lower carb, very high saturated fat diet works so much better, for me, than a high carb diet. My current macros are 65-70% fat (most of it saturated, linoleic intake remains consistently below 5g), 15-20% carbs (mostly fruit, honey, and milk), and the rest protein. Before, I was eating 55-60% carbs and 25-30% fat, so not quite inverted compared to now, but close. I have been eating this way for a bit more than a year by now.

All of the parameters that should normally be optimal on a high carb, low-moderate fat diet, for me are actually much more so on lower carbs. Those parameters that are normally associated with efficient glucose oxidation, high co2, low inflammation, etc. feel actually optimal vs. good now compared to before.

Many of the usual interventions touted around these parts, such as raising co2, supplementing with the fat soluble vitamins, aspirin, increasing the NAD/NADH ratio, etc. became either mostly redundant, or work even better now.

I've always had optimal co2 levels based on a bunch of parameters, and decreasing carb intake to 50-100g from 250-350g has changed absolutely nothing in that department. If anything, they have improved. Contrary to what is touted by some. Paradoxical?

No need to supplement the fat-solubles as I'm well over the RDA now with the high (mainly saturated) fat intake.

Aspirin does absolutely nothing for me now. I haven't had a single headache for over a year (but never really suffered from them very often), and all of my arthritic pains are completely gone (not like aspirin ever helped much there, but it did do something) mostly thanks to various quinones (including Pau D'Arco, Emodin, and Mk4). So, aspirin, for me, is now totally useless.

The quinones work much, much better now. I have cut the dose of my daily Kuinone and Lapodin by half, and the sciatica, shoulder, and wrist pains have not returned. Before cutting the carbs, this would invariably happen. Yes, the quinones are absolutely miraculous substances, I can't recommend them highly enough.

I've always been an efficient glucose oxidizer. In more recent times, I did suffer from the occasional temporary fatigue (requiring a 15-minute nap) following those huge carb-laden meals due to the massive insulin spike and subsequent physiological reactive hypoglycemia, but I learned to mitigate that by eating a bit more saturated fat with the carbs. But I really do believe that I have reached an even more optimal (for me) state in this regard. Suffice it to say that I am never tired now. I have to force myself to go to sleep, but when I do hit the bed I'm asleep in a matter of minutes, vs. feeling tired before but not being able to immediately fall asleep. I woke up refreshed before, but perhaps even more so now.

My blood glucose is much more optimal now. It was never problematic, but due to the see-sawing insulin inherent to high-carb diets, I was often hungry between meals, and sometimes (as mentioned above) would required a 15-minute nap.

I am no longer hungry, ever. I used to wake up with a gaping hole in my stomach that had to be filled at all costs. Now, I just enjoy eating for the sheer pleasure. And I don't skimp on the calories now, I never have. I can now eat lunch (even "just" a 200g pot of creme fraiche with a bit of honey and a fair bit of blueberries or strawberries, a nice espresso, and no longer start feeling ravenously hungry around 4-5pm. I could probably skip dinner without feeling hungry (so this is something to watch out for, I wouldn't ever recommend undereating), but I have a nice steak drowned in butter, or something, anyways, for the sheer pleasure of it.

I am no longer bloated. I used to grow a nice belly after carb-heavy meals, due to all that additional h2o and fermentation, probably. Probably also some cortisol involved (my cortisol generally feels lower now). Since fat provides 9 calories versus 4 gram-for-gram compared to carbs, and there are no gnarly fibers involved, I am ingesting much less volume and my stomach has not bloated in a long while now.

I have much more energy. I had a lot before, but have even more, now. Oxidizing fat produces much more ATP compared to oxidizing glucose, even though some people inexplicably sustain the opposite. All the talk about blocking fatty acid oxidation, lipolysis, and whatnot MUST start differentiating between PUFA and SATURATED fats. I would scream this from rooftops if it wasn't so cold out. All studies out there, especially animal studies, that portray fat in a negative light, are ALL using high-PUFA and low-SATURATED fat diets/chow.

Additionally, my temps have gone up, although I have always had good temps. From 36.7C - 36.9C to a steady 37C throughout the day. 36.8C upon waking (used to be 36.6C on waking). It is known that saturated fat increases brown thermogenic fat.

So there you have it. Sorry for for the long-winded post, I have probably bored you all enough for today.
 
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youngsinatra

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Very interesting experience. Happy to hear that you are feeling good!

I think many people run into problems with low-carb, when they also overstress themselves in the name of hormesis - a lot of cold showers, fasting, overexercising and stuff like that. (one leads to another in my experience)

All that stress probably depletes a lot of valuable minerals and vitamins like sodium, magnesium, copper, B-vitamins...
When they are depleted in those and don‘t carefully replete these, their oxidative metabolism stops working because the necessary components of the ETC are missing - especially copper, K2, CoQ10 and magnesium. Then they run into exhaust, without adequate energetic resources, because they only run on anaerobic metabolism, which provides much much less ATP.
I think on a well formulated protocol this might work just fine - Terry Wahls Protocol is also pretty low carb but also very mitochondria-focused and she has great success with her clients. But she also stresses about organ meats, mineral-rich foods and so on.

Besides keeping PUFAs low, did you focus on other peat-ish aspects as well?
Like vitamin D, calcium:phosphate ratio?

Peace brother.
 

Jam

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Very interesting experience. Happy to hear that you are feeling good!

I think many people run into problems with low-carb, when they also overstress themselves in the name of hormesis - a lot of cold showers, fasting, overexercising and stuff like that. (one leads to another in my experience)

All that stress probably depletes a lot of valuable minerals and vitamins like sodium, magnesium, copper, B-vitamins...
When they are depleted in those and don‘t carefully replete these, their oxidative metabolism stops working because the necessary components of the ETC are missing - especially copper, K2, CoQ10 and magnesium. Then they run into exhaust, without adequate energetic resources, because they only run on anaerobic metabolism, which provides much much less ATP.
I think on a well formulated protocol this might work just fine - Terry Wahls Protocol is also pretty low carb but also very mitochondria-focused and she has great success with her clients. But she also stresses about organ meats, mineral-rich foods and so on.

Besides keeping PUFAs low, did you focus on other peat-ish aspects as well?
Like vitamin D, calcium:phosphate ratio?

Peace brother.

Yeah, totally agree with you about the damaging lifestyle choices that many low-carb dieters adopt.

As mentioned, I no longer supplement with vitamin D given that I get much more of it via food now, and try to get out in the sun as much as possible.

I get plenty of calcium (upwards of 1.5g) and it is always fairly well balanced with phosphate.

Cheers bro.
 

Jam

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So, I haven't tested my levels since I started the diet, but they have always been healthy. I can dig up my numbers later, but: lowish triglycerides, medium-high HDL, medium LDL. I have always had a high (% relative to other fats) intake of saturated fat and very low PUFA intake on the previous (lifelong) high-carb diet.
 

Jam

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FWIW, here's an example, of what I ate yesterday. The linoleic is a bit higher (6.7g) than it normally is (5g or less), due to the pork, although the pork I get from the butcher here is pastured and probably has even less PUFA than what cronometer reports. Ditto with the lardo, which for those not familiar with it is a raw, salt-cured cold cut made with the back fat of a specific breed of pastured pigs artisinally produced in the Tuscany region. It can be fried like bacon but I eat it raw, as is normally done. It contains a ton more vitamin D than what is reported, has a relatively high ratio of saturated fat, and low PUFA.
 

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Razvan

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I think you were eating too much fat before and also saturated fat is very calming along with calcium to phosphate ratio. I see your calcium to phosphate is ok so might be this. I don't think we should be eating carbs and fats together and before you were getting 30% of fats and that's too much in combination with carbs. Best approach is to eat only carbs and little protein until 6pm and eating saturated fat with protein only before bed(Cheese, cottage cheese,dark chocolate , coconut oil and salt) while having calcium more or equal to phosphate always during the day.
 

Jam

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I think you were eating too much fat before and also saturated fat is very calming along with calcium to phosphate ratio. I see your calcium to phosphate is ok so might be this. I don't think we should be eating carbs and fats together and before you were getting 30% of fats and that's too much in combination with carbs. Best approach is to eat only carbs and little protein until 6pm and eating saturated fat with protein only before bed(Cheese, cottage cheese,dark chocolate , coconut oil and salt) while having calcium more or equal to phosphate always during the day.
Thanks for the input. So, I've tried what you're proposing, and while it may work for some, I'll do without the ravenous, incessant hunger that comes from eating high carb/low fat meals. I was always starving, no matter how many carbs I could manage to shove down due to the insulin seesaw, until I was able to get some real hearty food down at the dinner table.
 

Nomane Euger

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Thanks for the input. So, I've tried what you're proposing, and while it may work for some, I'll do without the ravenous, incessant hunger that comes from eating high carb/low fat meals. I was always starving, no matter how many carbs I could manage to shove down due to the insulin seesaw, until I was able to get some real hearty food down at the dinner table.
from my experience,i used to struggle with carbs craving(already ate a 1 kilo honey jar at once),so i went on and off carbs for 2 years,until i realised that once you quench your carbs cravings wich might be related to your glycogen reserves,the sugary taste and enjoyrment get to 0,and then the sugary taste and enjoyement gradually come back during the day,so when i wake up,i draw my honey pot,i eat up until satiety and the sugary taste literally disapear and my mouth stop salivating so the honey stick to my mouth with 0 sugary taste,wich is between 150 and 250 grammes,then if i eat up honey 2 to 3 hours later,it will taste sugary only for 2 to 3 teaspoons and become back not enjoyable and not sugary,but if i wait 8 hours,it become back exeptional and i can eat arround 100 grammes and some before back not enjoyable and not sugary.if i quence my morning craving,i wont think about foods for 6 to 8 hours at least,if i dont and iam to mindfull about my consumption,and restrict my self to "reasonables amounts"i will crave it and think about it very quickly.i found the problem with watery fruits is that is quenche my thirst before it quench my carbs needs/craving,so i can not eat enough fruits at the morning to fullfith my reserves because the water contain will be disgust me and full up water up until my throath after 4 to 5 oranges,wich isnt more than 100 grammes of carbs.so i eat oranges up until i cant take the water anymore,and then i fullfith the rest of my crabs craving with honey or just honey.then during the day if my carb craving isnt to high i just eat some fruits to quench it.
 

Jam

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Well, I get enough carbs to fill up my glycogen tank, I just really don't see why I would want any more than that. I would probably need a bit more if I were an athlete (even though that is debatable), but I'm not -- 100g of carbs are more than enough for me. I've never felt better, am never tired, never hungry, and have huge energy reserves...
 

Jam

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I guess the whole point of this thread is: How can all metabolic markers be better (or in some cases, apparently better, as I lack recent bloods... but I'm not a huge fan of those and they can easily lead one down the wrong path -- like seeing a higher LDL and thinking it is negative) on a high saturated fat, low carbohydrate diet? I know why, but the thread may then have to be tagged with an "Anti-Peat" label, and that would be a shame, as I agree with most of Ray's ideas. Besides the limited carbs, which may or may not go against some real (or invented) Peat principles, most of the Peat-style markers and related interventions are improved or work even better now.

Like I said, a paradox, perhaps?
 

Razvan

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Thanks for the input. So, I've tried what you're proposing, and while it may work for some, I'll do without the ravenous, incessant hunger that comes from eating high carb/low fat meals. I was always starving, no matter how many carbs I could manage to shove down due to the insulin seesaw, until I was able to get some real hearty food down at the dinner table.
Indeed the foods you are eating are very healthy and nutritious,but i think that all the carbs you were eating
Thanks for the input. So, I've tried what you're proposing, and while it may work for some, I'll do without the ravenous, incessant hunger that comes from eating high carb/low fat meals. I was always starving, no matter how many carbs I could manage to shove down due to the insulin seesaw, until I was able to get some real hearty food down at the dinner table.
You probably were eating starch,maybe you also had problems with the carbs usage,all of it was converting to lactic acid.Lots of people convert the carbs into lactic acid. If carbs only (especially fructose from juices) make you feel very clear headed and gave you vibrant energy ( not anxious) and make your stamina better they are doing their job. If carbs make you tense and you go out of breath faster they are turning to lactic acid.
Saturated fats in the evening should make you sleepier.
If you are doing keep it up!
 

Nomane Euger

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Well, I get enough carbs to fill up my glycogen tank, I just really don't see why I would want any more than that. I would probably need a bit more if I were an athlete (even though that is debatable), but I'm not -- 100g of carbs are more than enough for me. I've never felt better, am never tired, never hungry, and have huge energy reserves...
how do you gauge that you filled your glycogen tank?
 

Jam

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Indeed the foods you are eating are very healthy and nutritious,but i think that all the carbs you were eating
You probably were eating starch,maybe you also had problems with the carbs usage,all of it was converting to lactic acid.Lots of people convert the carbs into lactic acid. If carbs only (especially fructose from juices) make you feel very clear headed and gave you vibrant energy ( not anxious) and make your stamina better they are doing their job. If carbs make you tense and you go out of breath faster they are turning to lactic acid.
Saturated fats in the evening should make you sleepier.
If you are doing keep it up!
I was eating starch, and fruit, honey and milk. I still am, just much less. I've always handled carbs quite well I believe. They have always made me clear-headed and always gave me tons of energy... for the first few hours after eating them, that is, If not accompanied by a decent amount of saturated fat (as in whole milk). After 3-4 hours I would become ravenously hungry, while maintaining the clear-headedness and energy. The hunger was highly annoying and is due to spiking insulin and blood glucose, and the subsequent reactive hypoglycemia, which is perfectly physiological.
 

GreekDemiGod

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FWIW, here's an example, of what I ate yesterday. The linoleic is a bit higher (6.7g) than it normally is (5g or less), due to the pork, although the pork I get from the butcher here is pastured and probably has even less PUFA than what cronometer reports. Ditto with the lardo, which for those not familiar with it is a raw, salt-cured cold cut made with the back fat of a specific breed of pastured pigs artisinally produced in the Tuscany region. It can be fried like bacon but I eat it raw, as is normally done. It contains a ton more vitamin D than what is reported, has a relatively high ratio of saturated fat, and low PUFA.
This seems like an oddly low-calorie diet. Those are macros typical for a dieting phase. What's your height and weight?
 

Jam

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how do you gauge that you filled your glycogen tank?
By the fact that I am nowhere near ketosis, but still manage to remain clear-headed and my ability to focus on work remains optimal throughout the entire day without fail. Also, the fact that I sleep uninterrupted throughout the night and wake up refreshed.
 

Razvan

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I guess the whole point of this thread is: How can all metabolic markers be better (or in some cases, apparently better, as I lack recent bloods... but I'm not a huge fan of those and they can easily lead one down the wrong path -- like seeing a higher LDL and thinking it is negative) on a high saturated fat, low carbohydrate diet? I know why, but the thread may then have to be tagged with an "Anti-Peat" label, and that would be a shame, as I agree with most of Ray's ideas. Besides the limited carbs, which may or may not go against some real (or invented) Peat principles, most of the Peat-style markers and related interventions are improved or work even better now.

Like I said, a paradox, perhaps?
LDL cholesterol is the cholesterol we eat from food and if it's high it doesn't mean we eat a lot of cholesterol ( one time i ate 24 eggs a day for a period and still had 86LDL)as I said is high if we are hypothyroid and we don't convert the cholesterol into hormones (pregnenolone, progesterone, testosterone),the cholesterol will remain in our blood and the measurements will be high and that's bad. Egg is such a good food for hormones only if you can use that cholesterol.
The masai tribe were eating so much animal fats and foods and they are used as exemple but that's wrong because I doubt they were hypothyroid and so they were converting the needed cholesterol to hormones ( that's why they were so androgenic.)
 

Jam

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This seems like an oddly low-calorie diet. Those are macros typical for a dieting phase. What's your height and weight?
Those calories are ideal for my weight/height/age. I'm only 170cm (5'7") and weigh 70kg. I'm stocky and have decent muscle mass.
 

Sefton10

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I am ingesting much less volume and my stomach has not bloated in a long while now.
This is a delicate balance and makes a big difference for satiety I think. Too much starch, fruit, liquid, fibre etc to feel “full“ without enough fat can often come with obvious downsides, likewise not enough substance and too much concentrated fat often leads to issues. Sounds like you’ve found your Goldilocks zone.
 
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