why does saturated fat + carbs make me fat??

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
4,728
Alpha linoleic acid is one that comes to mind

Hmmm. I've taken ALA supplements in the past, and nothing at all like what you are describing.

The closest I've come to fat being stimulatory is using coconut oil in cooking, traditionally with potatoes. I usually get the faster heartbeat and rise and temp that Peat mentioned in his Coconut Oil article. But that usually has to be CO and some sort of carb. Didn't really notice it on it's own, or even using coconut creme in coffee.

I've never noticed any sort of stimulation after any sort of high pufa food, or even with things like butter and cream. Sometimes, I have noticed it after eating a steak (the famous "meat sweats,"), but that also seems to be more isolated. Maybe that has to do, in part, with the higher stearic acid content?
 

dukesbobby777

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
170
I suppose the long term effects of PUFA consumption could be equated to feelings of cocaine if one were to assume that the increased estrogen in the body were excitatory.

Acute effects of higher PUFA meals, for me, definitely have that feeling of torpor (post meal).
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
4,728
I suppose the long term effects of PUFA consumption could be equated to feelings of cocaine if one were to assume that the increased estrogen in the body were excitatory.

Then why isn't the general population staying up all night partying, rail thin, and having conversations with themselves in the bathroom mirror where they look themselves in the eye, and say, with 100% seriousness...

"YOU...... you OWN this town!"
 

dukesbobby777

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
170
Then why isn't the general population staying up all night partying, rail thin, and having conversations with themselves in the bathroom mirror where they look themselves in the eye, and say, with 100% seriousness...

"YOU...... you OWN this town!"

Lol, some probably are! Nothing surprises me these days.

I just mean excitatory as in estrogen dominant persons with wired, unstable and insomniac brains. Not the getting high/recreational side of it.
 

gaze

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,057
tim berzins from amplified vitality's viewpoint is that saturated fat is more likely than MUFA to cause lipolysis because he thinks saturated fat is preferentially stored which increases the size of the adipose tissues causing inflammation which ultimately leads to FFA release. His view is that fructose and saturated fat are the main causes of fatty liver and that lowering fat and increasing starch is the answer which also inhibits lipolysis and prevents FFA. Of course ray would disagree and say that pufa is preferentially stored, and that the fat created from fructose and saturated fat is protective against pufa, so im not sure. I know for a fact I do worse on starches than fruits, so I tend to lean with peat, but I haven't experimented much with lowering saturated fats and increasing olive oil instead. I think either way its important to keep fats at less than 30% just in general
 
Last edited:

dukesbobby777

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
170
tim berzins from amplified vitality's viewpoint is that saturated fat is more likely than MUFA to cause lipolysis because he thinks saturated fat is preferentially stored which increases the size of the adipose tissues causing inflammation. His view is that fructose and saturated fat are the main causes of fatty liver and that lowering fat and increasing starch is the answer. Of course ray would disagree and say that pufa is preferentially stored, and that the fat created from fructose and saturated fat is protective against pufa, so im not sure. I know for a fact I do worse on starches than fruits, so I tend to lean with peat, but I haven't experimented much with lowering saturated fats and increasing olive oil instead. I think either way its important to keep fats at less than 30% just in general

Are those his latest views? When I watched some of his videos (from a while back), he was very big on fruit and touched upon the blood sugar issue of starches.
 

gaze

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,057
Are those his latest views? When I watched some of his videos (from a while back), he was very big on fruit and touched upon the blood sugar issue of starches.
Thats what he said in the comment section on a post in the Ray peat facebook page a couple months ago. I can link the post but youd have to be in the group to see it. Hes still likes fruit and saturated fats, but favors starches and thinks the other two should be a lesser focus for people with liver fat. I think his video on "liver insulin resistant" touches on it.
 

Hans

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
2,712
So if you eat a diet that's high in saturated fat and carbs can you still be lean and healthy as long as you watch your caloric intake?
This type of diet seems so normal to me.

If you start the day with a basic breakfast of eggs with fruit, or eggs with sourdough toast & butter then you're already on the high fat, high carb path.
Then for lunch some 85/15 ground beef with a baked potato with butter.
Dinner of quesadillas.

Everything I eat is high-fat and high-carb. I just think it would be miserable eating any other way, but I also think my fat belly is miserable.
Most likely yes. It's just that if you eat high carb high fat but you want to control your calories, it might feel like you're eating too little.
Gut irritation can cause water retention, so cutting out starches can cause a drop in water weight and give the appearance of "leaning out" and fat loss.
 

Hans

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
2,712
saturated fat is more likely than MUFA to cause lipolysis because he thinks saturated fat is preferentially stored which increases the size of the adipose tissues causing inflammation which ultimately leads to FFA release
That's not true. Saturated fat overconsumption stimulates the synthesis of new fat cells, thus keeping their size (and inflammation) normal. PUFAs don't do this, leading to enlarged and inflamed adipocytes. Saturated fat also leads to slightly higher insulin levels, which inhibit lipolysis to a greater extent than PUFAs (and MUFAs).
His view is that fructose and saturated fat are the main causes of fatty liver and that lowering fat and increasing starch is the answer which also inhibits lipolysis and prevents FFA.
Fatty liver is because of excess lipolysis and lipogenesis and reduced ability of the liver cells to oxidize the fat fast enough. Inflammation (from endotoxins and PUFAs) causes excess lipolysis and these fatty acids accumulate in the liver as triglycerides. If they are PUFAs, they will also cause inflammation in the liver.
A highly reduced state (low NAD:NADH), hyperinsulinemia and elevated stress hormones stimulate lipogenesis which create fat from carbs. Starches are much more insulinogenic than fruit and are much more likely to cause gut irritation as well. Excess iron can also cause excess lipogenesis, whereas copper opposes it. As I've mentioned before, copper requirements go up on a high fructose diet.
Fruit is less insulinogenic and less likely to cause gut irritation, which reduces lipogenesis. Also, none of the human studies that I've seen has actually shown that fruit or fruit juice causes fatty liver, elevated trigs or cholesterol.
 

gaze

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,057
That's not true. Saturated fat overconsumption stimulates the synthesis of new fat cells, thus keeping their size (and inflammation) normal. PUFAs don't do this, leading to enlarged and inflamed adipocytes. Saturated fat also leads to slightly higher insulin levels, which inhibit lipolysis to a greater extent than PUFAs (and MUFAs).

Fatty liver is because of excess lipolysis and lipogenesis and reduced ability of the liver cells to oxidize the fat fast enough. Inflammation (from endotoxins and PUFAs) causes excess lipolysis and these fatty acids accumulate in the liver as triglycerides. If they are PUFAs, they will also cause inflammation in the liver.
A highly reduced state (low NAD:NADH), hyperinsulinemia and elevated stress hormones stimulate lipogenesis which create fat from carbs. Starches are much more insulinogenic than fruit and are much more likely to cause gut irritation as well. Excess iron can also cause excess lipogenesis, whereas copper opposes it. As I've mentioned before, copper requirements go up on a high fructose diet.
Fruit is less insulinogenic and less likely to cause gut irritation, which reduces lipogenesis. Also, none of the human studies that I've seen has actually shown that fruit or fruit juice causes fatty liver, elevated trigs or cholesterol.
I think I tend to agree with all of that. however, it does all ultimately come down to gut irritation, that's where most of the damage happens with health problems. and in america finding enough fruits to use as dietary staples that don't cause irritation is tough. Ray himself already avoids nearly every fruit because of improper growing methods causin the pectin to be problematic, and even then the OJ in america as well is quite junk at least from stores. farmers market oranges are great, but you need like 30 oranges per day to use fruit juice as 50% of the calories, which tends to break the bank quite a bit. the ultimate question of a peat diet is whether store bought OJ is better or white rice/potatoes. I think it's up to the individual but there's downsides to both
 

Hans

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
2,712
I think I tend to agree with all of that. however, it does all ultimately come down to gut irritation, that's where most of the damage happens with health problems. and in america finding enough fruits to use as dietary staples that don't cause irritation is tough. Ray himself already avoids nearly every fruit because of improper growing methods causin the pectin to be problematic, and even then the OJ in america as well is quite junk at least from stores. farmers market oranges are great, but you need like 30 oranges per day to use fruit juice as 50% of the calories, which tends to break the bank quite a bit. the ultimate question of a peat diet is whether store bought OJ is better or white rice/potatoes. I think it's up to the individual but there's downsides to both
Gut irritation is a big deal for sure, but most juice in America is made from concentrate with added sugar, and that's exactly the fruit juice they used in some of the studies. I prefer store-bought fruit juice over starches, but this is person specific if they react negatively to starches or not.
 

gaze

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,057
Gut irritation is a big deal for sure, but most juice in America is made from concentrate with added sugar, and that's exactly the fruit juice they used in some of the studies. I prefer store-bought fruit juice over starches, but this is person specific if they react negatively to starches or not.
I don't have much experience with concentrates, but the ordinary fruit juice in a carton that's not from concentrate is generally not that ripe, and i suspect many of them have added citric acid. I may try using frozen concentrate because I think that may be more likely to be packaged riper, although i'm not sure.

My main fascination with starch is from the anabolic properties of insulin. If we know insulin lowers FFA, lowers cortisol, puts amino acids into muscles, and can help build bones, it would seem like eating high insulin starches to the point at which it doesn't cause a insulin crash would be more beneficial then less insulinogenic fruits. of course the insulin crash, the endotoxin, gut irritation all increase cortisol and free fatty acids long term, which is why starch remains as a permanent question mark.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
haidut Saturated Fat (palmitate) Does NOT Activate TLR4 Scientific Studies 28
F Saturated Fat Does Not Clog The Arteries: Coronary Heart Disease Is A Chronic Inflammatory Condition Heart, Heart Rate, Blood Pressure 2
Mito Saturated Fat Does Not Clog The Arteries: Coronary Heart Disease Is A Chronic In Ammatory Condition Articles & Scientific Studies 2
haidut CNN: Saturated Fat Does NOT Clog Your Arteries; Stress And Inflammation Do Scientific Studies 29
Incen Does liver from grain-fed animals contain vitamin A? Meat, Organ Meat, Gelatin, Seafood 2
J How does Ray Peat make coffee? Ask For Help or Advice 8
U What does eggs offer to be important part of the diet? Diet 9
T Does adrenaline damage the nervous system? Ask For Help or Advice 3
L Does a Moderna vaccinated person cause harm to a non vaccinated person? Vaccines 15
JanP Does NDT supplement, T3/T4 or iodine raise PTH? Natural Dessicated Thyroid 2
Hgreen56 Does Gaba decrease metabolic rate? Diet 0
P Why Does Lowering Estrogen Slow My Hair Loss? (Interesting experience) Hair & Nails 4
Lokzo Does Lion's Mane Destroy Your Libido/Sex Drive?! Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 9
Frankdee20 Does dietary cholesterol intake increase it ? Cholesterol 8
ursidae >70 g of PUFA a day | Does diet even matter? Diet 72
TypicalJock Does food in plastic packaging effect the food? Ask For Help or Advice 1
tankasnowgod Milk, OJ, Cottage Cheese, Yogurt..... Does Temperature of these foods matter? Digestion 29
C Does Flowers Of Sulphur Only Benefit The Gut? Ask For Help or Advice 3
T Klonopin? How Does This Drug Do Nothing For Me? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 2
T Why Does Drinking Cause Suicidal Thoughts Now? Mental Issues 23
P Anti-Peat What Does Peat Have To Say About Tribal/indigenous Peoples Eating Pufa? Debate - Anti-Peat 22
jamies33 Does Believing In The Concept Of Karma Negate Belief In The Multiverse Theory? Meditation, Mindfullness, Religion, Spirituality 2
J Does Anyone Know Anything About Selleckchem Dot Com? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 0
H Does Tropical Weather Inhibit Metabolism? Metabolism 12
lvysaur Why Does Aspirin Lower My Bilirubin? Blood Work, Labs 1
F Does Anyone Have A Backup Of Tyw's Blog? Ask For Help or Advice 13
hominidnumber9 Why Does Finasteride Work For Some People? Hair & Nails 97
GelatinGoblin Does Sunlight Lower Thyroid And Steroids? Ask For Help or Advice 1
Hgreen56 Does The Potato Juice Have The Same Amount Of Carbohydrates As The Potato Itself? Diet 2
E My Mom Tested Positive For COVID Does COVID Develop Lung Nodules? Ask For Help or Advice 5
E Does Coffee Make You Fat And Anxious? Miscellaneous 5
Sexypizza Does Anyone Know Where I Can Buy Camphoric Acid? Digestion 5
R Does Anybody Have The Pdf Of Lysenko's Book On Heredity? Book Recommendations 0
bogbody Does This Look Like An OK Light Setup? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 4
N Why Does Hypothyroid Cause Puffy Face Thyroid and Hormones 2
S Does Vitamin C Increase Progesterone? Vitamins 12
C How Does Celery Do This? Skin 2
J Why Does Fresh Liver Taste So Good But Frozen Liver So Meh? Organ Meat 3
orewashin Why Does Coconut Oil/MCT Oil Burn My Throat? Coconut Oil 1
R Does Sugar Waste Magnesium? Ask For Help or Advice 4
I Does Famotadine Work As Well As Cyproheptadine? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 9
Velve921 What Does Everyone Thing Of Sooma For Sleep? It Has Glycine Ask For Help or Advice 0
T Does Sugar Raise Adrenaline? And What Causes Hypodypsia (lack Of Thirst) Ask For Help or Advice 8
A Does Aspirin Inhibit Mitochondrial Respiration? Aspirin 51
M Does "improving" Serotonin Receptors Help Or Hinder Serotonin Sensitivity? Ask For Help or Advice 5
N Thyroid- Does Everyone Take It Expecting To Eventually Come Off Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 33
U Does Anybody Else Experience Significant Mood Changes On High (er) Fat Diet? Diet 27
haidut Male Sexual Function Does NOT Require Estrogen Scientific Studies 20
L Does Lithium Orotate Dissolve In Water Like Aspirin? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 3
lyfe Does Gelatin Need To Set Before Consumed? Gelatin 8

Similar threads

Top