Applying Peat Principles To Low-Carb High-Saturated Fat: Incredible Results

Dave_Fit

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First off, a disclaimer perhaps: I'm not sick and have no major health issues, besides a (now healing) periodontitis and (a now completely banished) arthritic condition. I was not really overweight before, but I did have a bit of what I think was visceral fat (typical smallish beer/wheat belly).

Also, apologies for the riff on the other (veganism) thread's title.

I think this is very interesting, but for a totally different (to the veganism), and paradoxical, reason.

So, applying Peat "principles" to a lower carb, very high saturated fat diet works so much better, for me, than a high carb diet. My current macros are 65-70% fat (most of it saturated, linoleic intake remains consistently below 5g), 15-20% carbs (mostly fruit, honey, and milk), and the rest protein. Before, I was eating 55-60% carbs and 25-30% fat, so not quite inverted compared to now, but close. I have been eating this way for a bit more than a year by now.

All of the parameters that should normally be optimal on a high carb, low-moderate fat diet, for me are actually much more so on lower carbs. Those parameters that are normally associated with efficient glucose oxidation, high co2, low inflammation, etc. feel actually optimal vs. good now compared to before.

Many of the usual interventions touted around these parts, such as raising co2, supplementing with the fat soluble vitamins, aspirin, increasing the NAD/NADH ratio, etc. became either mostly redundant, or work even better now.

I've always had optimal co2 levels based on a bunch of parameters, and decreasing carb intake to 50-100g from 250-350g has changed absolutely nothing in that department. If anything, they have improved. Contrary to what is touted by some. Paradoxical?

No need to supplement the fat-solubles as I'm well over the RDA now with the high (mainly saturated) fat intake.

Aspirin does absolutely nothing for me now. I haven't had a single headache for over a year (but never really suffered from them very often), and all of my arthritic pains are completely gone (not like aspirin ever helped much there, but it did do something) mostly thanks to various quinones (including Pau D'Arco, Emodin, and Mk4). So, aspirin, for me, is now totally useless.

The quinones work much, much better now. I have cut the dose of my daily Kuinone and Lapodin by half, and the sciatica, shoulder, and wrist pains have not returned. Before cutting the carbs, this would invariably happen. Yes, the quinones are absolutely miraculous substances, I can't recommend them highly enough.

I've always been an efficient glucose oxidizer. In more recent times, I did suffer from the occasional temporary fatigue (requiring a 15-minute nap) following those huge carb-laden meals due to the massive insulin spike and subsequent physiological reactive hypoglycemia, but I learned to mitigate that by eating a bit more saturated fat with the carbs. But I really do believe that I have reached an even more optimal (for me) state in this regard. Suffice it to say that I am never tired now. I have to force myself to go to sleep, but when I do hit the bed I'm asleep in a matter of minutes, vs. feeling tired before but not being able to immediately fall asleep. I woke up refreshed before, but perhaps even more so now.

My blood glucose is much more optimal now. It was never problematic, but due to the see-sawing insulin inherent to high-carb diets, I was often hungry between meals, and sometimes (as mentioned above) would required a 15-minute nap.

I am no longer hungry, ever. I used to wake up with a gaping hole in my stomach that had to be filled at all costs. Now, I just enjoy eating for the sheer pleasure. And I don't skimp on the calories now, I never have. I can now eat lunch (even "just" a 200g pot of creme fraiche with a bit of honey and a fair bit of blueberries or strawberries, a nice espresso, and no longer start feeling ravenously hungry around 4-5pm. I could probably skip dinner without feeling hungry (so this is something to watch out for, I wouldn't ever recommend undereating), but I have a nice steak drowned in butter, or something, anyways, for the sheer pleasure of it.

I am no longer bloated. I used to grow a nice belly after carb-heavy meals, due to all that additional h2o and fermentation, probably. Probably also some cortisol involved (my cortisol generally feels lower now). Since fat provides 9 calories versus 4 gram-for-gram compared to carbs, and there are no gnarly fibers involved, I am ingesting much less volume and my stomach has not bloated in a long while now.

I have much more energy. I had a lot before, but have even more, now. Oxidizing fat produces much more ATP compared to oxidizing glucose, even though some people inexplicably sustain the opposite. All the talk about blocking fatty acid oxidation, lipolysis, and whatnot MUST start differentiating between PUFA and SATURATED fats. I would scream this from rooftops if it wasn't so cold out. All studies out there, especially animal studies, that portray fat in a negative light, are ALL using high-PUFA and low-SATURATED fat diets/chow.

Additionally, my temps have gone up, although I have always had good temps. From 36.7C - 36.9C to a steady 37C throughout the day. 36.8C upon waking (used to be 36.6C on waking). It is known that saturated fat increases brown thermogenic fat.

So there you have it. Sorry for for the long-winded post, I have probably bored you all enough for today.
Everything you said resonates with me, however I kind of did what you are doing but a little bit in reverse. I did a high SF diet 50%, with roughly 25% proteins and 25% carbs, PUFA around 7g a day, and lost 48 lbs over 6-7 months (The Croissant Diet). Initially while doing this diet I was unfamiliar with Ray, but people commented on my YouTube channel that my diet seemed very Ray Peat. (daily carrot, Pint of Haagen Dazs, ensuring micro nutrient intake was high) My BP while not bad before starting improved to better than 120/80, my blood glucose also not bad improved, I had lots of energy and a dead quiet stomach, no bloating, and was not hungry while eating a decent amount of calories, but I was in my calculations in a 10% deficit during my loss period. What you said about studies is something I would scream too, they are all high PUFA studies. I like this quote by RAY:

"Sugar helps the liver to make cholesterol, switching from starchy vegetables to sweet fruits will usually bring cholesterol levels up to normal. If the fat is mostly saturated, from milk, cheese, butter, beef, lamb or coconut oil, I think it's usually o.k. to get about 50% of the calories from fat, but since those natural fats typically contain around 2% polyunsaturated fats, I try to minimize my PUFA intake by having more fruit, and a little less fat, maybe 30 to 35%." - Ray Peat"

This quote could kind of be used as a guide for what I did without knowing much about Peat before. However after loosing the weight I wanted to try eating a more Peaty way and have increased my carbs considerably, and reduced my fat somewhat, more in line with the end of his quote. I have not gained any weight back, I definitely don't think I have more energy now than when on the higher SF and lower carbs. I may go back to the higher SF for a period and see what happens. I no longer eat in a deficit so that isn't an issue. Very cool to find your post. My daily calories while loosing were 2900, but now I eat 3400+ a day.
 

InChristAlone

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Everything you said resonates with me, however I kind of did what you are doing but a little bit in reverse. I did a high SF diet 50%, with roughly 25% proteins and 25% carbs, PUFA around 7g a day, and lost 48 lbs over 6-7 months (The Croissant Diet). Initially while doing this diet I was unfamiliar with Ray, but people commented on my YouTube channel that my diet seemed very Ray Peat. (daily carrot, Pint of Haagen Dazs, ensuring micro nutrient intake was high) My BP while not bad before starting improved to better than 120/80, my blood glucose also not bad improved, I had lots of energy and a dead quiet stomach, no bloating, and was not hungry while eating a decent amount of calories, but I was in my calculations in a 10% deficit during my loss period. What you said about studies is something I would scream too, they are all high PUFA studies. I like this quote by RAY:

"Sugar helps the liver to make cholesterol, switching from starchy vegetables to sweet fruits will usually bring cholesterol levels up to normal. If the fat is mostly saturated, from milk, cheese, butter, beef, lamb or coconut oil, I think it's usually o.k. to get about 50% of the calories from fat, but since those natural fats typically contain around 2% polyunsaturated fats, I try to minimize my PUFA intake by having more fruit, and a little less fat, maybe 30 to 35%." - Ray Peat"

This quote could kind of be used as a guide for what I did without knowing much about Peat before. However after loosing the weight I wanted to try eating a more Peaty way and have increased my carbs considerably, and reduced my fat somewhat, more in line with the end of his quote. I have not gained any weight back, I definitely don't think I have more energy now than when on the higher SF and lower carbs. I may go back to the higher SF for a period and see what happens. I no longer eat in a deficit so that isn't an issue. Very cool to find your post. My daily calories while loosing were 2900, but now I eat 3400+ a day.
Excellent find! Yes Peat has said either 50% carbs *or* 50% fat is good if the carbs are mostly sugars and the fats are saturated. I am finding the high fat is way more satisfying and satiating for me being I tend to undereat and andrenergic type symptoms when I'm not eating enough. Just can't get down enough carbs without lots of starch and the starch causes more insulin release.
 
OP
Jam

Jam

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Still doing carbs? I did similar macros except more fat less protein and that usually kept me stable but am going through the reactive hypoglycemia type symptoms (with perfect numbers) and starches cause me huge problems right now. I was really interested in how the fat worked out in the long run but then you switched it! I am doing way better on 60% fat than 55% carbs. Do you still think that can work?
Yep still doing carbs, less starch and fat (always saturated) during the warm months, more starch and fat during the winter, with 15-20% protein. The constants are: 1 liter of milk daily and low PUFA.

Everything you said resonates with me, however I kind of did what you are doing but a little bit in reverse. I did a high SF diet 50%, with roughly 25% proteins and 25% carbs, PUFA around 7g a day, and lost 48 lbs over 6-7 months (The Croissant Diet). Initially while doing this diet I was unfamiliar with Ray, but people commented on my YouTube channel that my diet seemed very Ray Peat. (daily carrot, Pint of Haagen Dazs, ensuring micro nutrient intake was high) My BP while not bad before starting improved to better than 120/80, my blood glucose also not bad improved, I had lots of energy and a dead quiet stomach, no bloating, and was not hungry while eating a decent amount of calories, but I was in my calculations in a 10% deficit during my loss period. What you said about studies is something I would scream too, they are all high PUFA studies. I like this quote by RAY:

"Sugar helps the liver to make cholesterol, switching from starchy vegetables to sweet fruits will usually bring cholesterol levels up to normal. If the fat is mostly saturated, from milk, cheese, butter, beef, lamb or coconut oil, I think it's usually o.k. to get about 50% of the calories from fat, but since those natural fats typically contain around 2% polyunsaturated fats, I try to minimize my PUFA intake by having more fruit, and a little less fat, maybe 30 to 35%." - Ray Peat"

This quote could kind of be used as a guide for what I did without knowing much about Peat before. However after loosing the weight I wanted to try eating a more Peaty way and have increased my carbs considerably, and reduced my fat somewhat, more in line with the end of his quote. I have not gained any weight back, I definitely don't think I have more energy now than when on the higher SF and lower carbs. I may go back to the higher SF for a period and see what happens. I no longer eat in a deficit so that isn't an issue. Very cool to find your post. My daily calories while loosing were 2900, but now I eat 3400+ a day.
I went through the exact same thing -- initial weight loss (although not much in my case, from 72-73kg to 70-71kg) and then staying there even after going high starch in this winter.

I used to get bloated from high starch meals, the worst offenders being potatoes and pasta, but discovered that following such meals with a tall glass of milk (and the usual coffee) pretty much solves it.

Here's an example of how I'm currently eating:
Screenshot 2022-01-22 112213.jpg

Screenshot 2022-01-22 112236.jpg
 

Havde

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from my experience,i used to struggle with carbs craving(already ate a 1 kilo honey jar at once),so i went on and off carbs for 2 years,until i realised that once you quench your carbs cravings wich might be related to your glycogen reserves,the sugary taste and enjoyrment get to 0,and then the sugary taste and enjoyement gradually come back during the day,so when i wake up,i draw my honey pot,i eat up until satiety and the sugary taste literally disapear and my mouth stop salivating so the honey stick to my mouth with 0 sugary taste,wich is between 150 and 250 grammes,then if i eat up honey 2 to 3 hours later,it will taste sugary only for 2 to 3 teaspoons and become back not enjoyable and not sugary,but if i wait 8 hours,it become back exeptional and i can eat arround 100 grammes and some before back not enjoyable and not sugary.if i quence my morning craving,i wont think about foods for 6 to 8 hours at least,if i dont and iam to mindfull about my consumption,and restrict my self to "reasonables amounts"i will crave it and think about it very quickly.i found the problem with watery fruits is that is quenche my thirst before it quench my carbs needs/craving,so i can not eat enough fruits at the morning to fullfith my reserves because the water contain will be disgust me and full up water up until my throath after 4 to 5 oranges,wich isnt more than 100 grammes of carbs.so i eat oranges up until i cant take the water anymore,and then i fullfith the rest of my crabs craving with honey or just honey.then during the day if my carb craving isnt to high i just eat some fruits to quench it.
Winnie the Pooh is that you? :D
 

Vins7

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Yep still doing carbs, less starch and fat (always saturated) during the warm months, more starch and fat during the winter, with 15-20% protein. The constants are: 1 liter of milk daily and low PUFA.


I went through the exact same thing -- initial weight loss (although not much in my case, from 72-73kg to 70-71kg) and then staying there even after going high starch in this winter.

I used to get bloated from high starch meals, the worst offenders being potatoes and pasta, but discovered that following such meals with a tall glass of milk (and the usual coffee) pretty much solves it.

Here's an example of how I'm currently eating:
View attachment 32713
View attachment 32714
How could milk fix the bloating due to starch?
 

GreekDemiGod

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Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't lipolysis ramped up on a high-fat diet, and you have higher levels of FFA in the bloodstream? What is the reason satiety is high on high-fat and you can go longer in-between meals? I've experienced it myself. But I think it's because you are running on fat.
 

jet9

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Yep still doing carbs, less starch and fat (always saturated) during the warm months, more starch and fat during the winter, with 15-20% protein. The constants are: 1 liter of milk daily and low PUFA.


I went through the exact same thing -- initial weight loss (although not much in my case, from 72-73kg to 70-71kg) and then staying there even after going high starch in this winter.

I used to get bloated from high starch meals, the worst offenders being potatoes and pasta, but discovered that following such meals with a tall glass of milk (and the usual coffee) pretty much solves it.

Here's an example of how I'm currently eating:
View attachment 32713
View attachment 32714
Jam, do you keep macros more or less similarly between 3 meals?

Or do you have more carbs at first meal of the day / more fats at last? Or other way around?
(not sure if foods in cronomer are in order you eat them so hard to understand)
 

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