Keto Fixes My Insomnia And Caffeine Tolerance, Why?

Dino D

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Lets keep it short...
I eate everything I tried a lot of things, i had low carb periods, i read a lot on this forums, I'm almost obssesed with nutrition so i do ,,binge research" for many years... lets not go into details about me and my nutrition... i tried a lot of suplements and many approaches and nothing really works (now im focusing on copper, vitamin A, taurine and some other things, vitamin A could be working)
My problem: anxiety and tension, more like tension and feeling like wired, and on adrenalin (not the anxiety like fear or panic, **** that)... and insomnia, waking up at night and my brain is always thinking, evan when i sleep, it feels like that... i cant tolerate coffeine-adrenalin, stress and so on
when i go keto i sleep, on keto coffee relaxes me and i can drink a few cups...

i hate keto

Whats the mechanism?

I think its the saturated fat, when i do more ,,peat stuff" the saturated fat is not really there in my diet, then i go low fat... I read mattyb posts and maybe the solution is to get more then 70g fat per day, mostly saturated... and this will fix it

my labs are TOP, every blood marker is perfect or in range... only hashimoto is not, but evan that, the antybodys arent high!!!!

i see the liver thesis, fatty liver, cleanse it, improve the glycogen storage and what not... eating carbs, no matter what carbs never helps with sleep or caffein, it makes it worse... if i eat carbs a lot of carbs before bad i cant sleep!!!
mattyb also said that his coffeine intolerance went away when he added saturated fat...
the saturated fat idea i started yesterday so I dont know what will happen in few weaks but lets hear what you think aobut?
why keto makes me sleep, why i can drink coffee on keto... or did I just answered it to my self...(=saturated fat)

yea, salt also does not hepl me ;)
fiber or no fiber makes no difference, starch or no starch also, drinking to much liquids is the worst for me... bla bla
 

fradon

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Lets keep it short...
I eate everything I tried a lot of things, i had low carb periods, i read a lot on this forums, I'm almost obssesed with nutrition so i do ,,binge research" for many years... lets not go into details about me and my nutrition... i tried a lot of suplements and many approaches and nothing really works (now im focusing on copper, vitamin A, taurine and some other things, vitamin A could be working)
My problem: anxiety and tension, more like tension and feeling like wired, and on adrenalin (not the anxiety like fear or panic, **** that)... and insomnia, waking up at night and my brain is always thinking, evan when i sleep, it feels like that... i cant tolerate coffeine-adrenalin, stress and so on
when i go keto i sleep, on keto coffee relaxes me and i can drink a few cups...

i hate keto

Whats the mechanism?

I think its the saturated fat, when i do more ,,peat stuff" the saturated fat is not really there in my diet, then i go low fat... I read mattyb posts and maybe the solution is to get more then 70g fat per day, mostly saturated... and this will fix it

my labs are TOP, every blood marker is perfect or in range... only hashimoto is not, but evan that, the antybodys arent high!!!!

i see the liver thesis, fatty liver, cleanse it, improve the glycogen storage and what not... eating carbs, no matter what carbs never helps with sleep or caffein, it makes it worse... if i eat carbs a lot of carbs before bad i cant sleep!!!
mattyb also said that his coffeine intolerance went away when he added saturated fat...
the saturated fat idea i started yesterday so I dont know what will happen in few weaks but lets hear what you think aobut?
why keto makes me sleep, why i can drink coffee on keto... or did I just answered it to my self...(=saturated fat)

yea, salt also does not hepl me ;)
fiber or no fiber makes no difference, starch or no starch also, drinking to much liquids is the worst for me... bla bla

your issues are with adrenaline. adrenaline causes the muscle tension. dopmaine makes adrenaline

it is known that low carb/ no carb diets shunt the dopamine pathway. many peopel on keto report not having sugar craving, but also not being so alive as when on sugar. dopamine is linked with emotion, addiction, desire, excitment, anxiety. by not eating sugar you lower you dopamine response as sugar is a stimulant similar to cocaine another dopamine agonist. so by not eating carb/sugar you are lowering your dopamine response.

here is a women who became a full carnivore and she cured her bipolar. bipolar is a disregulation of dopamine with the brain making too much then making too litltle causing ups and down...mania and depression. Empirica: Experiences of a Five-Year Carnivore, Part I

so the peat diet increases dopamine because of all the sugar but for you it increases anxiety because you have a high sensitive brain. when you go keto you are lowing your brains response to food as meat/fat are not as stimulating as sugar.

i think you are sensitive to all stimulants sugar/caffeine/ maybe even spices.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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your issues are with adrenaline. adrenaline causes the muscle tension. dopmaine makes adrenaline

it is known that low carb/ no carb diets shunt the dopamine pathway. many peopel on keto report not having sugar craving, but also not being so alive as when on sugar. dopamine is linked with emotion, addiction, desire, excitment, anxiety. by not eating sugar you lower you dopamine response as sugar is a stimulant similar to cocaine another dopamine agonist. so by not eating carb/sugar you are lowering your dopamine response.

here is a women who became a full carnivore and she cured her bipolar. bipolar is a disregulation of dopamine with the brain making too much then making too litltle causing ups and down...mania and depression. Empirica: Experiences of a Five-Year Carnivore, Part I

so the peat diet increases dopamine because of all the sugar but for you it increases anxiety because you have a high sensitive brain. when you go keto you are lowing your brains response to food as meat/fat are not as stimulating as sugar.

i think you are sensitive to all stimulants sugar/caffeine/ maybe even spices.
that is true, I'm generally sensitive to every stimulant, evan suplements... but i wasnt before, i ,,know times" when sugar put me down 4 sleep... whats your suggestion? i dont think keto is the solution... i have been there and i never felt ok... weak, no pump, no libido, no emotions, constipation, feling super cold... and so on... ?
 

fradon

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that is true, I'm generally sensitive to every stimulant, evan suplements... but i wasnt before, i ,,know times" when sugar put me down 4 sleep... whats your suggestion? i dont think keto is the solution... i have been there and i never felt ok... weak, no pump, no libido, no emotions, constipation, feling super cold... and so on... ?


i did keto and crashed i don't have the adrennals for it. I need carbs and protein with littel fat.

i would say eat carbs like bread or rice with some protein like chicken, eggs, beef. back off on the fat. use fat as a brake as fat in the diet will slow down your metabolism and low fat in the diet will speed it up. i used to eat a lot of kerry gold butter but no more.

vegetables supply oxygen. these controls your oxidation rate. fast oxidizer burn through sugar quickly and then get hypoglyemia.

treat sugar as stimulants and drugs. pure sugar, fruit juices, coke should be used like whisky. I drink my orange juice in a shot glass and drink as needed. these stimulants will speed up your thyroid but too much and they will make you put on weight, or give you hypoglycemia aka over oxidize.

what's helping me is 1 meal in the morning then 1 meal in the eveing. a 8=9 of fasting in between. back off on high amounts of pure sugar. I treat orange juice like whisky and drink it in a shot glass. when you feel emotionally shunted or depressed then add some sugar to your diet and it will boost dopamine and thyroid but again too much will trigger serotonin and make you fat. find the line and don't cross it and what out for sugar binges.

use fat as a brake. when you notice your metabolism speeding up too fast add a little fat when you notice it slowing down stop the fat. best fat choices are butter or lard no oils not even olive oil or coconut oil. meat has plenty of fat in it already and the is less oxidizes than oils.

also work out. slow cardio or fast cardio. you gotta clean out your cells of they are clogged with fat creating insulin resistance which is what happens on keto. using bands for muscle works too. muscles give sugar a place to go and prevent high triglycerides and brain fog that happens when you get high blood sugar then low blood sugar swings.

last stop the caffiene. this is the single thing that has helped me. coffee was giving me brain fog so now i drink decaf.
 

Soundios

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@fradon I'd be interested in the source of your knowledge regarding these previous posts in this thread.
The reason I ask is because what you're saying matches my conclusions that I've formed through experience. Thanks in advance.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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i did keto and crashed i don't have the adrennals for it. I need carbs and protein with littel fat.

i would say eat carbs like bread or rice with some protein like chicken, eggs, beef. back off on the fat. use fat as a brake as fat in the diet will slow down your metabolism and low fat in the diet will speed it up. i used to eat a lot of kerry gold butter but no more.

vegetables supply oxygen. these controls your oxidation rate. fast oxidizer burn through sugar quickly and then get hypoglyemia.

treat sugar as stimulants and drugs. pure sugar, fruit juices, coke should be used like whisky. I drink my orange juice in a shot glass and drink as needed. these stimulants will speed up your thyroid but too much and they will make you put on weight, or give you hypoglycemia aka over oxidize.

what's helping me is 1 meal in the morning then 1 meal in the eveing. a 8=9 of fasting in between. back off on high amounts of pure sugar. I treat orange juice like whisky and drink it in a shot glass. when you feel emotionally shunted or depressed then add some sugar to your diet and it will boost dopamine and thyroid but again too much will trigger serotonin and make you fat. find the line and don't cross it and what out for sugar binges.

use fat as a brake. when you notice your metabolism speeding up too fast add a little fat when you notice it slowing down stop the fat. best fat choices are butter or lard no oils not even olive oil or coconut oil. meat has plenty of fat in it already and the is less oxidizes than oils.

also work out. slow cardio or fast cardio. you gotta clean out your cells of they are clogged with fat creating insulin resistance which is what happens on keto. using bands for muscle works too. muscles give sugar a place to go and prevent high triglycerides and brain fog that happens when you get high blood sugar then low blood sugar swings.

last stop the caffiene. this is the single thing that has helped me. coffee was giving me brain fog so now i drink decaf.
Thx, somwhow all of that makes seanse and sounds balanced im a way that couls work 4 me... its simple, i was overthinkimg heavily...

One more detail, just two meals? How much calories you get in and what is you macros ratio finally?
 

Cirion

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To put it simply: It's not the carbs, it's you.

Most people have a dysfunction with metabolizing carbs. That on top of way too many PUFA's, exacerbates the problem. Even too many SFA's can actually disturb the ability to regain insulin sensitivity, as I've personally learned.

Sugar does not make you fat. Someone who can not metabolize sugars well may gain some fat, but its not the fault of the sugar, its the fault of you not being able to metabolize them. Avoiding sugar will never solve the root problem. The quickest way to regain sensitivity is to eat a diet low in fat, moderate in protein, and high in carbs. Though I must stress - quickest, not least painful. Because if you have problems, this is gonna suck. I would recommend to slowly drop fat and replace with carbs as you can tolerate. This has been my strategy. I'm down to only about 20% calories from fat and 60% from carbs now, and I come from a history of Keto as well, so its possible.

I will add that I personally don't do well with too much straight sugar. Fruit is the most preferable source of sugar, I also have lots of maple syrup, milk, and some juices.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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To put it simply: It's not the carbs, it's you.

Most people have a dysfunction with metabolizing carbs. That on top of way too many PUFA's, exacerbates the problem. Even too many SFA's can actually disturb the ability to regain insulin sensitivity, as I've personally learned.

Sugar does not make you fat. Someone who can not metabolize sugars well may gain some fat, but its not the fault of the sugar, its the fault of you not being able to metabolize them. Avoiding sugar will never solve the root problem.
Agree... in some periods o couldnt eat carbs at all, big stress response... with peat i can now eat carbs, but still its not right... if i eat fruits or fruit juces i get super cold...
However what are your sugestions, do you support what fradon said or do you have something different?
I increased fat this weak, gained some weight and i feel slugish... lower libido and energy...
 

Cirion

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It's not an easy problem or a quick problem to fix. It's been a painful process for me. I had to eat a higher fat diet at first, gained a **** (insert favorite 4 letter word here lol) ton of weight, but managed to mostly normalize my temps and pulses finally through a high fat high protein high carb (high everything) diet. I don't necessarily recommend that, just what I did. When I finally realized I was getting too fat, I started the last week or two to drop the fats and replace them with carbs. I'm still not cured, but I can handle sugar a lot better now and keep temps up high without fats anymore.

I would say if you haven't normalized temps yet I would focus on temps by doing some or all of the following

- Keep house temp warm at all times
- Fruit
- Eat foods low in PUFA
- Sunlight / Bright incandescent bulbs
- Warm milk
- Wear warm clothing a lot, possibly even while asleep
- Hot showers, Hot baths
- Electrolytes seem to boost temps (Salt, Magnesium, Calcium)
- SFA's seem helpful for temps (coconut oil, MCT oil...)
- Eat warm foods, if you have liquids try to make sure they're warm as much as you can. I can tolerate cold liquids now but I couldn't at first.
- I don't recommend having carbs alone without protein or fat generally. I do sometimes, but I can handle it better now, but I still try not to.
- Sufficient calories in general
- I personally had better luck with temp gain by using high GLUCOSE fruits. I felt off if fructose was not balanced with glucose on about a 1:1 ratio.

Again I wouldn't say I'm cured yet but I can keep temps up 99F+ most of the day now, and usually wake up close to or at least 98F in the mornings.

I tried jumping straight into low fat high carb and it didn't end well for me. I could not keep up my energy or temps or satiety doing that.

BTW a statement was made "coconut oil oxidizes" and this is false. SFA's do not oxidize in the body. I would in fact focus on any SFA's especially ones that are high in stearic acid, one of which is coconut oil. I generally have 1-2 TBSP in the morning and that helps revv my metabolism up right away. SFA's CAN activate the randle cycle though, which means too much of even SFA's can inhibit carbohydrate metabolism. I think once you're cured the effects of randle cycle are not a big deal anymore, but if you already have insulin resistance, the effects of randle cycle can be brutal.

I would also recommend not fasting unless you can keep 98.6F+ temp while doing so. If you can, great. but I think most here can't do that. I sure can't still.

Currently on my lowered fat experiment I do about 4 carbs for every 1 gram of protein. Protein can lower blood sugar so you have to watch that and balance it out. Milk is popular here but I can't drink straight milk or I tank my blood sugar as milk is only about 1.5 carb per gram protein.

Lifting weights or some HIIT can be useful for improving insulin sensitivity. However, I don't recommend that until you feel ready. I want to get back into the gym but I still don't feel I have the energy to do so.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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It's not an easy problem or a quick problem to fix. It's been a painful process for me. I had to eat a higher fat diet at first, gained a **** (insert favorite 4 letter word here lol) ton of weight, but managed to mostly normalize my temps and pulses finally through a high fat high protein high carb (high everything) diet. I don't necessarily recommend that, just what I did. When I finally realized I was getting too fat, I started the last week or two to drop the fats and replace them with carbs. I'm still not cured, but I can handle sugar a lot better now and keep temps up high without fats anymore.

I would say if you haven't normalized temps yet I would focus on temps by doing some or all of the following

- Keep house temp warm at all times
- Fruit
- Eat foods low in PUFA
- Sunlight / Bright incandescent bulbs
- Warm milk
- Wear warm clothing a lot, possibly even while asleep
- Hot showers, Hot baths
- Electrolytes seem to boost temps (Salt, Magnesium, Calcium)
- SFA's seem helpful for temps (coconut oil, MCT oil...)
- Eat warm foods, if you have liquids try to make sure they're warm as much as you can. I can tolerate cold liquids now but I couldn't at first.
- I don't recommend having carbs alone without protein or fat generally. I do sometimes, but I can handle it better now, but I still try not to.
- Sufficient calories in general
- I personally had better luck with temp gain by using high GLUCOSE fruits. I felt off if fructose was not balanced with glucose on about a 1:1 ratio.

Again I wouldn't say I'm cured yet but I can keep temps up 99F+ most of the day now, and usually wake up close to or at least 98F in the mornings.

I tried jumping straight into low fat high carb and it didn't end well for me. I could not keep up my energy or temps or satiety doing that.

BTW a statement was made "coconut oil oxidizes" and this is false. SFA's do not oxidize in the body. I would in fact focus on any SFA's especially ones that are high in stearic acid, one of which is coconut oil. I generally have 1-2 TBSP in the morning and that helps revv my metabolism up right away. SFA's CAN activate the randle cycle though, which means too much of even SFA's can inhibit carbohydrate metabolism. I think once you're cured the effects of randle cycle are not a big deal anymore, but if you already have insulin resistance, the effects of randle cycle can be brutal.

I would also recommend not fasting unless you can keep 98.6F+ temp while doing so. If you can, great. but I think most here can't do that. I sure can't still.

Currently on my lowered fat experiment I do about 4 carbs for every 1 gram of protein. Protein can lower blood sugar so you have to watch that and balance it out. Milk is popular here but I can't drink straight milk or I tank my blood sugar as milk is only about 1.5 carb per gram protein.

I dont tolerate dairy, i bloat, get hemoroids, get stomach pain, evan blood in stool what is posibly from the hemorids, get weak and out of air, food intolerance test showed that im intolerant do dairy... al of those reactions are mild but there are there... once a had an trully alergic reaction to goat milk, a rush, out of air and so on...

yea, protein do lower my blood sugar, after eating eggs this happens especially, and i get super cold... eating eggs and juice also dont work, only starches make me warm, but they also charge my appetite and hunger and disturb my sleep... i can eat only two meals, in a few days i can establish this habit, but on the other side when i let my self go i'm always hungry, im evan sometimes hungry after i finis a super super big meal, i want to explode but i still could eat till I'm totally overstuffed... red meat also makes me feel stuffed... I dont know about calcium, i didnt really suplemented it not did i eat many calcium sources...

one more interesting fact:
i have tinitus for 3-4 years... thats how my preaty low helthalso started... the tinitus was severe, loud ringing... i fixed it with suplementing IRON... it almost went away, when i suplement iron i have so much more air and condicion, i can run much much more, i sleep better, a lot beter... but im not anemic, my blood results are good, iron in range, feritin 150-200 and suplementing iron always heps... still i didnt suplement it... maybe just 4 months in 4 years, one month at the time...
 

Cirion

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Dairy is a tricky one. It's a doubled edged sword. It is useful for many things like the calcium which helps promote a healthy metabolism. On the other hand, so many of us have such jacked up metabolisms that we can't metabolize dairy. I find that I do a little better with the lower fat or even skim milk. Milk is about the only way to get protein while also little iron, phosphorus, or PUFA's, which I think is one of many reasons Peat loves it though. Plus the calcium, as mentioned. Because it's almost impossible to avoid at least some PUFA's while on keto, this is one of many reasons why I think such a diet is misguided.

Yeah I was gonna mention starches. Starches are great at raising temps but I also found they raise it too much and then your temp tanks afterwards. I don't recommend them personally. I agree with Peat now that if you have problems, starch should be zero. Just my opinion though. Many would disagree.

I don't personally recommend eggs unless perhaps you can tolerate grass-fed raw eggs. Eggs cause me massive problems also, even still. I think it is primarily the PUFA's to blaim. PUFA's should be avoided at all costs during the healing phase IMO. Even Ray says that he can only tolerate maybe one or two eggs in one sitting. I would eat like 6 and feel horrible after. Like I had been hit with a tranquilizer dart. It was bad.

Calcium is super important and one of Peat's key tenents, one of the other reasons why he loves his milk. In particular, calcium relative to phosphorus. Meat is high in phosphorus. I don't even eat much meat anymore personally for this reason.

Don't know what to tell you if you can't handle any milk, maybe supplement some calcium carbonate or eggshell.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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Dairy is a tricky one. It's a doubled edged sword. It is useful for many things like the calcium which helps promote a healthy metabolism. On the other hand, so many of us have such jacked up metabolisms that we can't metabolize dairy. I find that I do a little better with the lower fat or even skim milk. Milk is about the only way to get protein while also little iron, phosphorus, or PUFA's, which I think is one of many reasons Peat loves it though. Plus the calcium, as mentioned.

Yeah I was gonna mention starches. Starches are great at raising temps but I also found they raise it too much and then your temp tanks afterwards. I don't recommend them personally. I agree with Peat now that if you have problems, starch should be zero. Just my opinion though. Many would disagree.

i can get away with cottage chease, and i didnt tried low fat milk with added sugar or honey... maybe i start slow with that...
still, how can i drink fruit juices or just eat fruit if they imediatily make me feel coold, sometimes jittery but just sometimes, then hungry, if i eat raw fruit i get also very easily bloated... cooked vegies or cooked starchy vegies seam to be much more tolerabre... or just a bit starch with some fat and proteins seams the best... like one to two potatos, chicken filet, wit 10gram of butter, and some salt... (ps. salt is much better in soups or in water, salt on food irritates my gut and bloats me) also, no one did truly explain why iron helps me... i know the theory that if you consume something toxic your metabolism can boost, you could feel better but i dont know about that, that everything gets better, no side effects... if i didnt focus on iron at critical times my tinnitus would drive me to suicide... i run record laps while on iron and so on... very strange because blood test indicate midle or high reference range on every iron feritin and other blood marker related to anemia...
 

Cirion

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At the end of the day, eat what gives you good temps and is maintainable for you. I think Ray would agree with this statement. Anything that improves your metabolism is a healthy food.

Yeah I think one reason why whole milk is bad is because most milk is from grain fed cows so that the fats are not good fats. Plus the pasteurization process I believe ruins the fats too.

Sounds weird but try salting fruit. I find that to be highly effective personally. Again, the fruits with higher glucose too - like oranges, grapes, to name a couple of my favorites. Apples and pears are high in fructose and I don't like them, they don't warm me up like the higher glucose fruits do. I used to eat a lot of apples and pears and I also felt cold a lot. I do think there is a thing as too much fructose now as such, at least relative to glucose.

Warm foods do help a lot tho early on in healing which is probably why you like the cooked foods.

I often "Cheat" to better handle cold liquids or foods (Layer on warm clothing, crank up the heat in my house)

Iron is a controversial subject. There is a forum member here who advocates high iron intake.
 
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Dino D

Dino D

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At the end of the day, eat what gives you good temps and is maintainable for you. I think Ray would agree with this statement. Anything that improves your metabolism is a healthy food.

Yeah I think one reason why whole milk is bad is because most milk is from grain fed cows so that the fats are not good fats. Plus the pasteurization process I believe ruins the fats too.

Sounds weird but try salting fruit. I find that to be highly effective personally. Again, the fruits with higher glucose too - like oranges, grapes, to name a couple of my favorites. Apples and pears are high in fructose and I don't like them, they don't warm me up like the higher glucose fruits do. I used to eat a lot of apples and pears and I also felt cold a lot. I do think there is a thing as too much fructose now as such, at least relative to glucose.

Warm foods do help a lot tho early on in healing which is probably why you like the cooked foods.

I often "Cheat" to better handle cold liquids or foods (Layer on warm clothing, crank up the heat in my house)

Iron is a controversial subject. There is a forum member here who advocates high iron intake.

DouglasEK i think... i messeged him, he says with feritin 150 or more there is no need to suplement iron, its more like i'm not using my iron and he gave me guidlines-vit A and b vitamins... this could be true because when i take iron some of that has to get used and i feel better... the rest is probbably toxic and gets stored or flushed, I dont know, but seams like I'm not using my iron that i have enough... we will see, my last resort will be suplementing iron one more time, I personaly also dont belive that this is good or that this could be the solution, but, lets be open minded evan to the big NONO... ok, thx for the reply and info :D thx :)
 
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tca300

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Saturated fat acts on/like GABA. Gives that nice calm, pleasant feel. Never slept better than when I was eating very low PUFA ( under 1 gram per day ) while consuming 4+ tablespoons of hydrogenated coconut oil.
 

Cirion

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Why did you stop having the hydrogenated coconut oil then out of curiosity? I know you posted it somewhere but I lost it, but which brand were you using?
 
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10 days of water fasting heals my insomnia as well. I assume its deep keto. However some carbs will bring it back.
 

fradon

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Thx, somwhow all of that makes seanse and sounds balanced im a way that couls work 4 me... its simple, i was overthinkimg heavily...

One more detail, just two meals? How much calories you get in and what is you macros ratio finally?

i do about 1000 to 1500 calories a day depending on activity level and metabolism. I'm in my 40's so metabolism is slower than when i was in my 20's so eating too much and I gain weight. my job is sedentary and stationary so i don't get a lot of activity to burn off excess calories so I tend to just fast at work for 8-9 hours.

macros
fat 5-20%
protein 30-50%
carbs 60-30%

the numbers are variable depending on hunger, craving, activity level, and mental clarity.
when my metabolism is slow and my stomach acid is low eating more protien just makes bloat so eating carbs is better.
 

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