why does saturated fat + carbs make me fat??

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
4,779
i think you can not vegatable oil compare with real food.
oil got rancid very quickly and that's makes it very unhealthy.
Like fish oil supplements become very quickly toxic when exposed to sunlight and/or higher temp.
But i think pufa from eating whole foods like avocado, fish, nuts are less toxic.

Well, of course. Foods that contain less of a toxin than other foods are obviously going to be less toxic.

Corn and Soybean oil have about 60% of their fat from PUFA, and they are pure fat. So, 100g of either is going to give you roughly 60g of PUFA.

Avocado only has about 10-15% of it's fat from PUFA, and 100g of avocado only contains about 2g of PUFA. So, to get the same amount of PUFA from avocados, you'd have to eat 3 kilos of them.

Atlantic Salmon has about 35-40% of it's fat from PUFA, and to get to that same 60g of PUFA, you'd have to eat about 1.5 kilos.

I don't know anyone that eats 3 kilos (over 6 pounds) of avocados every day. 100g of soybean oil is easier to hit, if you eat a lot of processed foods and at restaurants. And eating 3 pounds of salmon is also doable, though rare. That's part of the reason why Peat pointed out the issues of people on fishing boats developing problems from eating lots of fatty fish.

I think the PUFA in fish, nuts, and avocado is just as toxic as the PUFA in vegetable oils, but there is just less of it.
 
Last edited:

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
4,779
This is surprising and seems to go against what ray teaches...pufa being the worst offender. In my experience dairy fat is more fattening then coconut oil, and i think that has to do with the special mct makeup of coconut oil many of spoken of. But i think vegetable oils would be more fattening then dairy or beef fat and i have found this to be true.
Well, as the general population has eaten more PUFA and Vegetable Oils, the general population has gotten more obese.

PUFA.png

pufa-obesity-B.jpg

obesity.jpg
 

mrchibbs

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2017
Messages
2,329
Location
Atlantis
I think you've affected your ability to metabolize carbs with years of keto.

That's the main factor IMO, not the combination of sat fat + carbs.

I recommend Danny's clip of Kyle Mamounis here:

 

Perry Staltic

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
Messages
381
Well, as the general population has eaten more PUFA and Vegetable Oils, the general population has gotten more obese.


Does sugar include high fructose corn syrup?
 

TheSir

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
521
saturated fat is more fattening than pufa.
Traditionally Peat has talked about farmers who were trying to fatten up their cattle with coconut oil, only to completely fail at it. He said that PUFA is used very much because it allows the cattle to gain more weight.
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
4,779
That graph may have more to do with the change in 1998 of the criteria for obesity rather than sugar consumption.


If that were the case, you should see a big spike right at 1998. You don't. So it's likely the graph is under a constant definition, be that the new or old.

Regardless, Obesity continutes to go up in the 2000's, which is all under a constant definition, as sugar intake (and carb intake) go down.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2018
Messages
182
I think you've affected your ability to metabolize carbs with years of keto.

That's the main factor IMO, not the combination of sat fat + carbs.

I recommend Danny's clip of Kyle Mamounis here:


Could you kindly summarize what it says? I have difficulty in translating :( does it talk about FAO inhibition to promote glucose metabolism?
 

GreekDemiGod

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
1,569
Location
Europe
In the mainstream view of nutrition, this is common sense and they warn that the combination of high carb / sugar + high fat / SFA is the most fattening and damaging with respect to overall health and cardiovascular disease risk.
That's why for weight loss you either go the high carb & low/very-low fat route or the low carb & high/very-high fat.
I have no basis for this statement, but I think balanced macros only work for someone in an exceptional state of health.
 

bzmazu

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
1,440
Location
Corozal, Belize
In the mainstream view of nutrition, this is common sense and they warn that the combination of high carb / sugar + high fat / SFA is the most fattening and damaging with respect to overall health and cardiovascular disease risk.
That's why for weight loss you either go the high carb & low/very-low fat route or the low carb & high/very-high fat.
I have no basis for this statement, but I think balanced macros only work for someone in an exceptional state of health.
Yes...your body burns carbs preferentially and stores the fat if you are in a caloric surplus.
 

lampofred

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
2,862
i did keto years ago before peating and i never had a problem eating so much saturated fat whilst very low carb, in fact i lost tons of weight from saturated fat ALONE, but as soon as i combine saturated fats with carbs, its a huge problem - belly bloat, sluggish liver, constantly tired.

low carb + high sat fat = no problems
high carb + no fat = no problems
high carb + monounsaturated/ polyunsaturated = no problems
high carb + saturated fat = tired, bloated, sluggish liver etc.

so what is the issue with saturated fats + carbs???

low carb + high sat fat = burning fat so you don't put on fat
high carb + no fat = you are running on carbs and metabolism is fast so no fat accumulates
high carb + unsaturated fat = unsaturated fat is triggering your adrenals to cause you to burn fat instead of sugar, but it's an unhealthy wasting/cachexia type metabolism
high carb + sat fat = you are running on carbs but the high fat intake slows metabolism & allows fat to accumulate
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
4,779
high carb + unsaturated fat = unsaturated fat is triggering your adrenals to cause you to burn fat instead of sugar, but it's an unhealthy wasting/cachexia type metabolism
Still haven't seen any long term evidence of this. As PUFA has skyrocketed, so has obesity.

How come we are in the midst of an "Obesity Epidemic," and not an "Anorexia Epidemic?"
 

GelatinGoblin

Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2020
Messages
450
In the mainstream view of nutrition, this is common sense and they warn that the combination of high carb / sugar + high fat / SFA is the most fattening and damaging with respect to overall health and cardiovascular disease risk.
That's why for weight loss you either go the high carb & low/very-low fat route or the low carb & high/very-high fat.
I have no basis for this statement, but I think balanced macros only work for someone in an exceptional state of health.

The other way around. For example Saturated Fat does not affect Glucose Oxidation (Krebs) whereas Polyunsaturated fatty acids extend it at times to something like 15 minutes, the process is pretty much instant without any fat intake or low FFA in the blood, AFAIK this leads to massive Insulin overproduction and well you can guess the rest...
Nothing isn't quite as harmful as sugar (or maybe pure Starch Glucose like potato :wtf ) with PUFA.
But in-general maybe keep fat low with a nice sugar meal. low-medium sat with a big starch meal and some gelatin broth is very anti-stress, especially with something like butter with potato and salt with the broth. Mmm...
 

lampofred

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
2,862
Still haven't seen any long term evidence of this. As PUFA has skyrocketed, so has obesity.

How come we are in the midst of an "Obesity Epidemic," and not an "Anorexia Epidemic?"

PUFA isn't all the same, some PUFA causes you to go into torpor, other PUFA acts like cocaine, but at its core what the unsaturation does is lower your sense of balance.
 

tankasnowgod

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
4,779
PUFA isn't all the same, some PUFA causes you to go into torpor, other PUFA acts like cocaine, but at its core what the unsaturation does is lower your sense of balance.

While I doubt this, which "PUFA" do you think is like Cocaine? Omega 6? Omega 3? Omega 7? CLA? Which one?
 

Hans

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
2,717
@Hans Could you give your opinion? Thanks
Saturated fat with sugar tastes amazing and it's too easy to overeat on it. Just drink coffee with cream and sugar and you'll know what I'm talking about.
You almost always find saturated fat with high carb foods, such as potatoes and butter, coffee, sugar and cream, milkshakes, ice cream, etc., but you also find high carb with high PUFA, such as baked goodies, etc.
Both groups that eat PUFA or SFA with carbs are fat. If you control calories, both groups will lose fat. One group will be healthier than the other group, but it's also highly individual. Some people simply don't do that well on dairy fat, but better on red meat fat, so they have to experiment accordingly.

Many studies find that one diet is better than the other in the short term (few weeks to a few months), however, they both result in the same weight loss or weight gain over the course of 1+ year. The only macro that speeds up fat loss or prevents excess weight gain is protein. And not a lot of people eat enough protein.
 

ursidae

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
481
While I doubt this, which "PUFA" do you think is like Cocaine? Omega 6? Omega 3? Omega 7? CLA? Which one?
IME omega 3, eating raw salmon felt like electricity was running through me. It’s a pity raw meat is not for the immunocompromised like me
 
Last edited:

Steve

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Messages
239
Saturated fat with sugar tastes amazing and it's too easy to overeat on it. Just drink coffee with cream and sugar and you'll know what I'm talking about.
You almost always find saturated fat with high carb foods, such as potatoes and butter, coffee, sugar and cream, milkshakes, ice cream, etc., but you also find high carb with high PUFA, such as baked goodies, etc.
Both groups that eat PUFA or SFA with carbs are fat. If you control calories, both groups will lose fat. One group will be healthier than the other group, but it's also highly individual. Some people simply don't do that well on dairy fat, but better on red meat fat, so they have to experiment accordingly.

Many studies find that one diet is better than the other in the short term (few weeks to a few months), however, they both result in the same weight loss or weight gain over the course of 1+ year. The only macro that speeds up fat loss or prevents excess weight gain is protein. And not a lot of people eat enough protein.
So if you eat a diet that's high in saturated fat and carbs can you still be lean and healthy as long as you watch your caloric intake?
This type of diet seems so normal to me.

If you start the day with a basic breakfast of eggs with fruit, or eggs with sourdough toast & butter then you're already on the high fat, high carb path.
Then for lunch some 85/15 ground beef with a baked potato with butter.
Dinner of quesadillas.

Everything I eat is high-fat and high-carb. I just think it would be miserable eating any other way, but I also think my fat belly is miserable.
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
haidut Saturated Fat (palmitate) Does NOT Activate TLR4 Scientific Studies 28
F Saturated Fat Does Not Clog The Arteries: Coronary Heart Disease Is A Chronic Inflammatory Condition Heart, Heart Rate, Blood Pressure 2
Mito Saturated Fat Does Not Clog The Arteries: Coronary Heart Disease Is A Chronic In Ammatory Condition Articles & Scientific Studies 2
haidut CNN: Saturated Fat Does NOT Clog Your Arteries; Stress And Inflammation Do Scientific Studies 29
Incen Does liver from grain-fed animals contain vitamin A? Meat, Organ Meat, Gelatin, Seafood 2
J How does Ray Peat make coffee? Ask For Help or Advice 8
U What does eggs offer to be important part of the diet? Diet 9
T Does adrenaline damage the nervous system? Ask For Help or Advice 3
L Does a Moderna vaccinated person cause harm to a non vaccinated person? Vaccines 15
JanP Does NDT supplement, T3/T4 or iodine raise PTH? Natural Dessicated Thyroid 2
Hgreen56 Does Gaba decrease metabolic rate? Diet 0
P Why Does Lowering Estrogen Slow My Hair Loss? (Interesting experience) Hair & Nails 4
Lokzo Does Lion's Mane Destroy Your Libido/Sex Drive?! Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 9
Frankdee20 Does dietary cholesterol intake increase it ? Cholesterol 8
ursidae >70 g of PUFA a day | Does diet even matter? Diet 72
TypicalJock Does food in plastic packaging effect the food? Ask For Help or Advice 1
tankasnowgod Milk, OJ, Cottage Cheese, Yogurt..... Does Temperature of these foods matter? Digestion 29
C Does Flowers Of Sulphur Only Benefit The Gut? Ask For Help or Advice 3
T Klonopin? How Does This Drug Do Nothing For Me? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 2
T Why Does Drinking Cause Suicidal Thoughts Now? Mental Issues 23
P Anti-Peat What Does Peat Have To Say About Tribal/indigenous Peoples Eating Pufa? Debate - Anti-Peat 22
jamies33 Does Believing In The Concept Of Karma Negate Belief In The Multiverse Theory? Meditation, Mindfullness, Religion, Spirituality 2
J Does Anyone Know Anything About Selleckchem Dot Com? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 0
H Does Tropical Weather Inhibit Metabolism? Metabolism 12
lvysaur Why Does Aspirin Lower My Bilirubin? Blood Work, Labs 1
F Does Anyone Have A Backup Of Tyw's Blog? Ask For Help or Advice 13
hominidnumber9 Why Does Finasteride Work For Some People? Hair & Nails 97
GelatinGoblin Does Sunlight Lower Thyroid And Steroids? Ask For Help or Advice 1
Hgreen56 Does The Potato Juice Have The Same Amount Of Carbohydrates As The Potato Itself? Diet 2
E My Mom Tested Positive For COVID Does COVID Develop Lung Nodules? Ask For Help or Advice 5
E Does Coffee Make You Fat And Anxious? Miscellaneous 5
Sexypizza Does Anyone Know Where I Can Buy Camphoric Acid? Digestion 5
R Does Anybody Have The Pdf Of Lysenko's Book On Heredity? Book Recommendations 0
bogbody Does This Look Like An OK Light Setup? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 4
N Why Does Hypothyroid Cause Puffy Face Thyroid and Hormones 2
S Does Vitamin C Increase Progesterone? Vitamins 12
C How Does Celery Do This? Skin 2
J Why Does Fresh Liver Taste So Good But Frozen Liver So Meh? Organ Meat 3
orewashin Why Does Coconut Oil/MCT Oil Burn My Throat? Coconut Oil 1
R Does Sugar Waste Magnesium? Ask For Help or Advice 4
I Does Famotadine Work As Well As Cyproheptadine? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 9
Velve921 What Does Everyone Thing Of Sooma For Sleep? It Has Glycine Ask For Help or Advice 0
T Does Sugar Raise Adrenaline? And What Causes Hypodypsia (lack Of Thirst) Ask For Help or Advice 8
A Does Aspirin Inhibit Mitochondrial Respiration? Aspirin 54
M Does "improving" Serotonin Receptors Help Or Hinder Serotonin Sensitivity? Ask For Help or Advice 5
N Thyroid- Does Everyone Take It Expecting To Eventually Come Off Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 33
U Does Anybody Else Experience Significant Mood Changes On High (er) Fat Diet? Diet 27
haidut Male Sexual Function Does NOT Require Estrogen Scientific Studies 20
L Does Lithium Orotate Dissolve In Water Like Aspirin? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 3
lyfe Does Gelatin Need To Set Before Consumed? Gelatin 8

Similar threads

Top