Starch weight gain?

Hans

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The insulin hypothesis has definitively not been debunked. Here’s a recent study illustrating the importance of insulin in the ratio of fat to lean mass loss in a caloric deficit.

Stimulated Insulin Secretion Predicts Changes in Body Composition Following Weight Loss in Adults with High BMI
I highly recommend that you check out the guy's work. At least if you're not going to check him out, other open-minded people reading this thread will.
Did you know that elevated insulin isn't just caused by carbs. Take an aspirin for example and watch your blood glucose and insulin drop from a meal. Two people can eat the same food and have completely different effects. One guy can have a small spike and another guy a big spike. So it's not a good idea to say avoid insulinogenic carbs.
The study you posted didn't show that high GI carbs resulted in less fat loss than low GI. It basically said that those who were insulin resistant or at least had elevated insulin lost the least fat. That says nothing about carbs.
 

Mr.Bollox

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Yes but to a lesser extent. Let's say you eat 2500 calories. And then you add only protein to 3500 calories from whey, gelatin or some kind of protein powder, you won't gain fat. If the protein is from food sources, you'll always get extra fat and that can make you fat.


Yes sugar counts for sure. Only in some animal models can they consume lots of (in a surplus) sugar and honey or fruit and not gain weight.
can the added tryptophan from more protein fatten you
what about protein converting to sugar and then to fat

also how come these animals can do that, is it because their metabolism is much better they can add extra sugar and not gain weight
 
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I've noticed I've gained 15-20 lbs since incorporating potatoes with coconut oil into my diet daily. Have you guys experienced weight gain on starch as well? Or is it a product of just including more fat in the diet?

“STARCH and GLUCOSE efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity. Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat" -Ray Peat
 

Mr.Bollox

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“STARCH and GLUCOSE efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity. Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat" -Ray Peat
the last thing isnt a certainty, you should be able to control food intake even if its starch? but even if you dont eat more there's still more weight gain than sugar right, gram per gram
 
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the last thing isnt a certainty, you should be able to control food intake even if its starch? but even if you dont eat more there's still more weight gain than sugar right, gram per gram

Here is more RP on the subject....

"Here's a currently often cited article which claimed to show that fructose causes "insulin resistance" compared to a starch diet, but careful reading would show that it confirms the powerful protective effect of fructose (and sucrose), since if the greater weight gain of the starch eaters continued beyond the short 5 weeks of the experiment, after a year the starchy rats would have weighed twice as much as the lean sugar eaters. The fructose limits insulin secretion, but intensifies metabolism, burning calories faster." -Ray Peat
 
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I've noticed I've gained 15-20 lbs since incorporating potatoes with coconut oil into my diet daily. Have you guys experienced weight gain on starch as well? Or is it a product of just including more fat in the diet?

This seems to be what happened to you....

"People on a standard diet will typically burn 200 or 300 more calories per day when that amount of sugar is added to their diet; but if extra fat is added, too, some of the extra calories are likely to be deposited as fat. It's important to watch the signs of changing heat production as the diet changes." -Ray Peat
 

Mr.Bollox

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Here is more RP on the subject....

"Here's a currently often cited article which claimed to show that fructose causes "insulin resistance" compared to a starch diet, but careful reading would show that it confirms the powerful protective effect of fructose (and sucrose), since if the greater weight gain of the starch eaters continued beyond the short 5 weeks of the experiment, after a year the starchy rats would have weighed twice as much as the lean sugar eaters. The fructose limits insulin secretion, but intensifies metabolism, burning calories faster." -Ray Peat
what about lactose and milk sugar should they be avoided
 
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what about lactose and milk sugar should they be avoided

I should think not....

"The presence of lactose in milk, and of fat, to slow absorption of the amino acids, helps to minimize the secretion of cortisol. The main protein of milk, casein, seems to have some direct antistress effects (Biswas, et al., 2003)." -Ray Peat
 
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what about lactose and milk sugar should they be avoided

"But “sugar” can also mean sucrose, lactose and maltose, the common “disaccharides”.

These are molecules that have 2 monosaccharides bound together.

1 Sucrose = 1 Glucose + 1 Fructose

1 Lactose = 1 Glucose + 1 Galactose

1 Maltose = 1 Glucose + 1 Glucose"

 

Mr.Bollox

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I should think not....

"The presence of lactose in milk, and of fat, to slow absorption of the amino acids, helps to minimize the secretion of cortisol. The main protein of milk, casein, seems to have some direct antistress effects (Biswas, et al., 2003)." -Ray Peat
interesting but many like skim milk, even Ray prefers skimmed right...
 
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interesting but many like skim milk, even Ray prefers skimmed right...

Yeah he said he drank whole milk for many years and because he was sedentary it put too much fat on him, the same with his ice cream. He says sugar in the presence of too much fat will make you fat. I think that is the potato problem. It isn't the potato that creates fat it is the added fats or sugars WITH the potatoes.
 

Mr.Bollox

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"But “sugar” can also mean sucrose, lactose and maltose, the common “disaccharides”.

These are molecules that have 2 monosaccharides bound together.

1 Sucrose = 1 Glucose + 1 Fructose

1 Lactose = 1 Glucose + 1 Galactose

1 Maltose = 1 Glucose + 1 Glucose"

that umzu website is interesting, didnt know they were also Peaty
theres always youtube adverts of theirs, one is for some kind of probiotic iirc, another is a blood flow supplement which has some pine bark extract (which I think isnt liked due to boosting nitric oxide or something)
 

Hans

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can the added tryptophan from more protein fatten you
what about protein converting to sugar and then to fat

also how come these animals can do that, is it because their metabolism is much better they can add extra sugar and not gain weight
Not at all. High protein studies usually use whey and they gain no fat.
I did some calculations a few years ago and it basically came down to 250g of protein might create 1g of fat.
Animals are just different (from each other and from us). Not sure of the mechanism.
 
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that umzu website is interesting, didnt know they were also Peaty
theres always youtube adverts of theirs, one is for some kind of probiotic iirc, another is a blood flow supplement which has some pine bark extract (which I think isnt liked due to boosting nitric oxide or something)

I wasn't promoting the website. It had a good explaination to your sugar question with lactose.
 
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