Targeted Fat Gain?

[Apple2Pear2018]

What about topical application (rubbing oil on your boobs and butt) of oleic acid rich fat like beef tallow or macadamia oil? Or lipofilling substances, that are supposed to increase adipocyte proliferation where you rub them, like some wrinkle creams and hand creams with volufiline or voluplus? hopefully @haidut has some input, lately I've been focusing on how to optimize the female cosmetic / aesthetic side of a lifestyle that lowers all serum estrogen.
Since estradiol is what's responsible for a flat stomach and wide hips in girls, I've been thinking raising estradiol and testosterone while lowering dht and estrone is the way to go

Waist-to-Hip Ratio, but Not Body Mass Index, Is Associated with Testosterone and Estradiol Concentrations in Young Women

 

[DaveFoster]

One of the hottest butts I ever had the pleasure of knowing was a really firm one on a girl who used to do a lot of gymnastics.

High jumpers.

Basically estradiol + testosterone = anabolic PAWG
Estrone = ssbbw

Interesting.

 

[schultz]

Um. You mean other than all the factors that involve being a human being, not just a physique?

lol. I think men don't completely understand this about women since men are so visual with their sexual preference. From my experience it doesn't take much for an attractive man to become repulsive to a woman based off of his personality.

Since estradiol is what's responsible for a flat stomach and wide hips in girls, I've been thinking raising estradiol and testosterone while lowering dht and estrone is the way to go

I doubt that estradiol is responsible for a flat stomach.

Estradiol should only be high once a month in women. After this progesterone should come in an "neutralize" it. Unfortunately he study you linked didn't measure progesterone.

The study did mention that higher testosterone is associated with WHR. They made a guess and assumed that the testosterone was being turned into estrogen in the body of the women with ideal WHR, though they admit it could be testosterone itself or even androgens like DHT.

"We found that women having the smallest WHRs during the fertile phase also had the greatest salivary concentrations of testosterone and estradiol. Since testosterone is the precursor of estradiol, our finding could suggest these women might have a higher turnover of estradiol, which, in turn, favors fat deposition in hips and buttocks. However, using the estradiol/testosterone ratio as a proxy of testosterone-to-estradiol conversion did not yield significant results. However, high levels of the nonaromatizable androgen dihydrotestosterone and of sex-hormone binding globulin that inhibit fat accumulation in the abdomen might also contribute to reducing the waist."

"As mentioned above, the metabolic pathways need to be unraveled. Nonetheless, our study shows that testosterone or its metabolites have effects in determining female body shape."


Progesterone needs to be measured to get an idea of how "estrogenic" these women really are.

DHT might have some local actions in women that we don't yet understand. @haidut posted a study showing that DHT can cause breast growth in women, yet in men they use it to treat male breast growth. Hormone research is in its infancy IMO and we are not going to get very far with it if the culture keeps thinking of estrogen as the female hormone and testosterone as the male hormone. They need to research the local action of hormones as well as the complex interaction of hormones. Measuring estrogen mid cycle and proclaiming that high estrogen is doing "A" or "B" is not very helpful. This kind of logic would have people measuring estrogen in pregnant women and thinking estrogen is the hormone of pregnancy when in reality a large dose of estrogen can cause abortion. The only reason it doesn't normally cause abortion (given its high level) is because progesterone is there to protect against it.

 

[Apple2Pear2018]

We found that women having the smallest WHRs during the fertile phase also had the greatest salivary concentrations of testosterone and estradiol. Since testosterone is the precursor of estradiol, our finding could suggest these women might have a higher turnover of estradiol, which, in turn, favors fat deposition in hips and buttocks. However, using the estradiol/testosterone ratio as a proxy of testosterone-to-estradiol conversion did not yield significant results. However, high levels of the nonaromatizable androgen dihydrotestosterone and of sex-hormone binding globulin that inhibit fat accumulation in the abdomen might also contribute to reducing the waist."

Interesting!!! And exciting, and now I'm concerned about the saw palmetto I've put into my female body, doesn't it cause post finesteride syndrome-like androgen loss in the men that use it? Before finding Ray's work I had crashed all of my hormone levels with a fat free fruitarian diet where I started to get a fat belly from what I now understand was my liver making saturated fat from all the fructose during my state of pufa-depletion, but being totally ignorant I got diagnosed with PCOS or metabolic syndtome, and was put on (by my naturopath) a regimine of saw palmetto, chaste berry (vitex), raw maca, which I now know was a persorption / goiterogen nightmare, and since I was coming from HCLF fruitarian diet she ran blood panels and found EFA deficiency and put me on flax, chia, algal oil, the pufa works; and had me follow Dr. Micheal Gregor's How Not to Die diet, which is the worst, she also wanted to put me on birth control but I didn't want to start then since I avoided it for health concerns, and I really didn't want to take metformin because I had studied the nutrition of high carb low fat (HCLF) diets I studied it's mechanism of action, it switches cells into low energy glycolysis, which looked to me like it would switch them to an anerobic cancer like metabolism, and all this BS came to a screeching hault while I was researching targeted fat gain and I found (through instagram) that cyproheptadine is famous for making women curvy and sexy (check the aptamin or cyproheptadine tags on instagram to see for yourself) I've still never been able to get any cyproheptadine even though it's what led me to Ray Peat's work and it's been over a year of studying Ray Peat's work I think it's the missing link to becoming like a natty iggy azelia :'(

Hormone research is in its infancy IMO and we are not going to get very far with it if the culture keeps thinking of estrogen as the female hormone and testosterone as the male hormone. They need to research the local action of hormones as well as the complex interaction of hormones.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[schultz]

Interesting!!! And exciting, and now I'm concerned about the saw palmetto I've put into my female body, doesn't it cause post finesteride syndrome-like androgen loss in the men that use it? Before finding Ray's work I had crashed all of my hormone levels with a fat free fruitarian diet where I started to get a fat belly from what I now understand was my liver making saturated fat from all the fructose during my state of pufa-depletion, but being totally ignorant I got diagnosed with PCOS or metabolic syndtome, and was put on (by my naturopath) a regimine of saw palmetto, chaste berry (vitex), raw maca, which I now know was a persorption / goiterogen nightmare, and since I was coming from HCLF fruitarian diet she ran blood panels and found EFA deficiency and put me on flax, chia, algal oil, the pufa works; and had me follow Dr. Micheal Gregor's How Not to Die diet, which is the worst, she also wanted to put me on birth control but I didn't want to start then since I avoided it for health concerns, and I really didn't want to take metformin because I had studied the nutrition of high carb low fat (HCLF) diets I studied it's mechanism of action, it switches cells into low energy glycolysis, which looked to me like it would switch them to an anerobic cancer like metabolism, and all this BS came to a screeching hault while I was researching targeted fat gain and I found (through instagram) that cyproheptadine is famous for making women curvy and sexy (check the aptamin or cyproheptadine tags on instagram to see for yourself) I've still never been able to get any cyproheptadine even though it's what led me to Ray Peat's work and it's been over a year of studying Ray Peat's work I think it's the missing link to becoming like a natty iggy azelia :'(




I couldn't agree more!

So how do you feel now?

I didn't know cypro had this internet following for weight gain, lol. Apparently there is some weight gain product called Apetamin which has cypro + lysine and b-vitamins. Cypro does stimulate appetite, but aside from that I wonder if there is a mechanism or some way in which it changes the distribution of fat? It's not outside the realm of possibilities, especially since cypro does so many things. The best thing it does is lower serotonin and serotonin is connected to estrogen, prolactin, cortisol, so it probably has something to do with one or all of these (assuming it actually is doing what these girls say it is doing). It could be these women are just finally eating enough lol.

This is a very interesting topic (fat distribution thing)! I'm going to have to do some research

EDIT: Here is an interesting thread

Cyproheptadine Blocks Cortisol Excess Due To Hypoglycemia / Estrogen

Excess cortisol seems to be able to cause people to put weight on their stomach (look up people with Cushings syndrome) so it's definitely possible cyproheptadine could help produce a healthy weight gain in women.

 

[Ras]

... I've still never been able to get any cyproheptadine...

Why not get it from Haidut?

 

[YourUniverse]

Cypro is OTC in Canada. My local pharmacy (Shopper's) ordered it for me, but it wasn't held in store. 24 hour wait.

 

[tara]

lol. I think men don't completely understand this about women since men are so visual with their sexual preference. From my experience it doesn't take much for an attractive man to become repulsive to a woman based off of his personality.

+1
And being exclusively focussed on his appearance, to the neglect of other important factors, would be one way to turn some of us off.

Also, conversely, a man with various components of kindness, integrity, intelligence, competence, conversational skill, humour, etc can often attract women quite effectively, with quite a wide range of body shapes.

 

[schultz]

Cypro is OTC in Canada. My local pharmacy (Shopper's) ordered it for me, but it wasn't held in store. 24 hour wait.

Shoppers around me carries it. They always seem suspicious as to why you want it though.

You live in Mississauga? You're like an hour from me. I'm in Wainfleet (yep, middle of nowhere!)

+1
... a man with various components of kindness, integrity, intelligence, competence, conversational skill, humour, etc

Do those qualities come in supplement form? Maybe Idealabs is working on one...

 

[YourUniverse]

Shoppers around me carries it. They always seem suspicious as to why you want it though.

You live in Mississauga? You're like an hour from me. I'm in Wainfleet (yep, middle of nowhere!)

Ha, cool! They have internet down there?!? Kidding

 

[schultz]

Ha, cool! They have internet down there?!? Kidding

lol, barely. When we first moved here I had to use my phone internet. Had a 2GB limit.

 

[lvysaur]

The further you go down the body the less androgenic receptors the muscles have. Which is why calves are so small on most guys. As for asian calves, that is largely just length of bone and the muscle can look much larger/condensed.

Forearms themselves are not inherently attractive to women, but general wrist circumfrience indicates "frame" which indicates good bones/Strength. Frame is generally correlated with Height/Width/Strength which is why women find big forarms attractive.

Legs have little sex appeal on men, exept glutes which is what ur mom was refrencing

I don't think Asian calves have anything to do with leg length. I've seen lots of short guys with poorly developed calves.

My wrist circumference definitely increased with aspirin/sugar, but your mileage may vary

And women don't care about guys' glutes lol

 

[smith]

bumpity for... Subcutaneous fat?

 

[smith]

Fun fact- Commiphora Mukul, Pueraria, Macelignan, Sarsparorelin, Zhi-Mu and some others indicated in this T H I C C and highly informative thread are said to increase what we want to increase.
Lipo-filling (FAT) stimulation action on topicals