Determining "estrogen dominance?" Maybe PE is making me worse!

[freyasam]

I've emailed with RP quite a bit. I wish he were still doing consults as my case doesn't seem to be easily tackled with the amount of time he has to answer emails... don't really get anywhere with email correspondence with him. That's not a criticism of him, as I know he's extremely busy.

 

[HDD]

Re: RP says glucose helps T4 to T3, then why fructose?
Postby haidut » Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:06 pm

dd99 wrote:
I just read haidut's comments in the Caffeine Is Bad For You thread (viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5381)

So, to summarise, for liver health, caffeine, high dose K2 and glycine/taurine?

They all work via different mechanisms so combining them would probably have additive effect, as caffeine and vitamin K2 had for me. Caffeine mainly forces the liver to flush its fat out into the bloodstream, so it's a great treatment for NAFLD and I posted a study on that. I believe vitamin K2 works by stabilizing the so-called Kuppfer cells in the liver:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupffer_cell
At least that's what the studies I have seen on PubMed say. Also, we know that quinones like K2 makes mitochondria work better, so that's probably another mechanism behind K2 effects.
Glycine's mechanism of action has not been definitively pinpointed yet but it is a potent antiinflammatory and Peat gives many explanations about its effects - antiestrogenic, antiserotonin, antiexcitotoxic, etc. All of these effects will be beneficial for liver.
Finally, taurine is also a big of an enigma for liver health but some of its good effects have to do with protecting the liver from lipid peroxidation effect, and in fact one study compared it to vitamin E and found their effects to be virtually identical. Taurine also forces bile release and that may "cleanse" the gallbladder and liver in a way.
So, if you are willing to ingest all of those I would recommend combining them for a week and then maybe falling back on caffeine and K2 as I believe they specifically target the liver and are not sedative unlike glycine and taurine.

And this thread-
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5652

 

[visionofstrength]

Yes, I'm hypothyroid but I cannot tolerate thyroid meds at all. I've tried four different kinds and I have extreme reactions of tachycardia, anxiety, and insomnia to microscopic doses (like just scraping off dust from a tablet with my fingernail).

My symptoms of hypothyroidism are: depression, fatigue, weight gain, cold extremities, acne, anxiety, insomnia, insatiable appetite, super light and short periods. Temps are low and pulse is high. I'm running on adrenaline.

I do not know of any reference in which Peat has ever claimed that one magic bullet of progesterone can work without other essentially dietary requirements, especially thyroid or its surrogates. In fact, I think it's fair to say that Peat would suggest thyroid first, and then progesterone, since adequate thyroid can itself adjust progesterone levels.

The progesterone and thyroid need to balance, along with small amounts of testosterone/DHEA (especially small for a woman). In order to achieve this balance, you also need sufficient fructose and B vitamins with your thyroid to avoid adrenaline rush, as well as magnesium/calcium/sodium/potassium and a number of other things as well, which I'm working with other members to summarize in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5551&start=30#p66013

Please consider that, as I think BingDing aptly said somewhere, high thyroid and low estrogen is what makes life feel good.* There are many ways to supplement thyroid, some going back thousands of years, such as fish head or chicken neck soup, and in a wide variety of thyroid products. You just need to find one that works for you.

*See viewtopic.php?f=56&t=5554&p=65882&hilit=thyroid#p65882

 

[tara]

I can't imagine eating that much [1 cup] sugar. I've seen a huge increase in tooth sensitivity the past year since eating this way. And I always rinse in water or baking soda/water after sugar or juice. But still. Going to the dentist soon and pretty sure I'll need a couple fillings; hopefully not more.

Sorry if I've asked this or you've answered it before, but how much are you eating? If 1 cup of sugar seems like a lot, does that mean you are not getting at least that much from all sugar sources? If not, that maybe a relevant factor?

 

[tara]

I've just read your glycogen storage thread. I know what you mean about being hungry and having to eat all the time, and spending a lot of time in the kitchen. I'm really hoping my glycogen storage will improve too. I've been gradually moving to more and more sugar, and I've been sleeping through the night without a snack for the last while, though could be drug effects too. I usually carry juice and dates etc wherever I go, and often chocolate and and sometimes OJ jellies. For me, paying attention to my daily rythm matters - if I eat a lot in the morning, and lots of prtein (+carbs) at lunch, generally the day goes better (though I still snack through the afternoon and evening too - just not as much). It mostly lines up with eating most when My appetite is strongest. You may have a similar or different rythm?

 

[freyasam]

I do not know of any reference in which Peat has ever claimed that one magic bullet of progesterone can work without other essentially dietary requirements, especially thyroid or its surrogates. In fact, I think it's fair to say that Peat would suggest thyroid first, and then progesterone, since adequate thyroid can itself adjust progesterone levels.

The progesterone and thyroid need to balance, along with small amounts of testosterone/DHEA (especially small for a woman). In order to achieve this balance, you also need sufficient fructose and B vitamins with your thyroid to avoid adrenaline rush, as well as magnesium/calcium/sodium/potassium and a number of other things as well, which I'm working with other members to summarize in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5551&start=30#p66013

Please consider that, as I think BingDing aptly said somewhere, high thyroid and low estrogen is what makes life feel good.* There are many ways to supplement thyroid, some going back thousands of years, such as fish head or chicken neck soup, and in a wide variety of thyroid products. You just need to find one that works for you.
f=56&t=5554&p=65882&hilit=thyroid#p65882

I'm reacting to every type of exogenous thyroid, including chicken neck soup. I can't find one that works for me because my body cannot tolerate it.

I've experimented quite a bit with B vitamins and minerals. I've tried pregnenolone and even beta blockers to be able to tolerate thyroid. It's pretty clear that my body cannot handle it. I'm not new to reading Peat's work or interacting in RP groups, just this one. So I am aware of nutritional requirements. But no matter how perfectly I am meeting them, I still cannot handle thyroid supplementation.

 

[freyasam]

I can't imagine eating that much [1 cup] sugar. I've seen a huge increase in tooth sensitivity the past year since eating this way. And I always rinse in water or baking soda/water after sugar or juice. But still. Going to the dentist soon and pretty sure I'll need a couple fillings; hopefully not more.

Sorry if I've asked this or you've answered it before, but how much are you eating? If 1 cup of sugar seems like a lot, does that mean you are not getting at least that much from all sugar sources? If not, that maybe a relevant factor?

I eat 2500-3500 calories, which I think is way too much for my level of physical activity. And the fact that I'm overweight confirms that. About 100 gm protein and 300-350 gm carbs. But that's how much I'm eating because I'm ALWAYS hungry. When I say that a cup of sugar seems too much, I mean a cup of white sugar. I get plenty of sugar in the from of fruit. I just don't see why I would need to eat a cup of white sugar when I can get fructose from fruit that also has other nutrients, unlike white sugar.

 

[tara]

I agree, that seems enough, and if you can get that much sugar in from nutritionally more complete fruits without needing to resort to refined sucrose, so much the better. :)

 

[freyasam]

So, it seems like there is really no answer to these issues of why I can't tolerate thyroid, why I can't improve glycogen storage, or why progest-e seems to be making me worse...

 

[visionofstrength]

So, it seems like there is really no answer to these issues of why I can't tolerate thyroid, why I can't improve glycogen storage, or why progest-e seems to be making me worse...

if you can't improve glycogen storage or progest-e isn't helping, it may be you need thyroid.

Why you can't tolerate a few micrograms of T3 or a chicken neck soup when you have adequate sugar and B vitamins? That would seem to be an outlier in my experience, so I can't help, I'm sorry.

 

[mujuro]

Yes, I'm hypothyroid but I cannot tolerate thyroid meds at all. I've tried four different kinds and I have extreme reactions of tachycardia, anxiety, and insomnia to microscopic doses (like just scraping off dust from a tablet with my fingernail).

My symptoms of hypothyroidism are: depression, fatigue, weight gain, cold extremities, acne, anxiety, insomnia, insatiable appetite, super light and short periods. Temps are low and pulse is high. I'm running on adrenaline.

I have a friend with the exact same issues and whom had the exact same reaction. She has PCOS and endometriosis, a family history of thyroid disorders and by looking at her, she lives on adrenaline - thin hair, skin problems, weight mostly on legs and hips. She is manic almost every day, year-round, but her body is an estrogenic mess. I gave her a sip of T3 suspended in water, no more than 3mcg and she was up all night. She is a real party girl, and she likened the experience to that of cocaine.

 

[beachbum]

Hello

I just wanted to add my experience. I'm a 51 yr old female. I had the same experience as you but worse. When I tried RP foods alone made me worse. What I ended up doing ( I can't tolerate supplements) I stopped all supplements and even then I couldn't use progesterone cream (or didn't realize I needed alot at first to get me out of estrogen dominance/extremely low progesterone). What I did was eat what made me feel better no matter what it was from bacon to chips. Then when I started feeling better I was able to make better meals and not eat junk (except the bacon my weakness ) when I started feeling stronger I started progesterone cream in large doses so I can overcome estrogen dominance even though my estrogen was low too (it's about ratio not taking estrogen to low, IMO). Hot flashes are a symptom of estrogen dominance. Here is a site that may help you

http://www.progesteronetherapy.com

The woman who created the site is retiring but read her story and how to dose.

I personally use about 400mgs a day. Still a work in progress for me but my hot flashes, insomnia, anxiety, cranial pressure, acne and other crap symptoms gone or in frequent to once in a blue moon. I do use RP principles but can't go full force. I'm trying to focus on foods only and progesterone cream now. Like I said I stopped all supplements. I'm thinking of ways to improve liver and gut function, IMO is key.

Thank for listening.
Beachbum