18 Year Old With Chronic Fatigue

Regina

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Hi all, thanks for the replies!

Im still reading them so excuse me if i don't reply to something.
...
You are such a smart girl. Sometimes when I read posts on this forum, I have a picture in my mind of the person's age and then get blown away when I learn they are in the 20's or even teens. You are incredibly self aware and have amazingly sleuthed out where to find insightful direction.
I didn't figure out the relational dynamics in my home were, um, "off" , until I was in my 40's. I tend to look for the pony. And my coping strategies (subconscious) were to become invisible, did a lot of song-writing and poetry/prose, was a loner, did a lot of wandering, got a mohawk and fronted a hard-core punk band.
But better awareness then would have helped me avoid getting ensnared into this familiar dynamics later in life. That's the best lesson. Learn to see it quickly in other people and move on. Avoid those ensnarements.
The dynamic manifests differently in each kid. I was popular but in a neutral, non-clicky way. They thought I was cool. So I could have had all the friends I wanted. Heck I could have been a cult hero. But for my close (dyadic) girl friends, they tended, in retrospect, to be bullies. Why didn't I pick the lovely ones or the ones who really wanted to know me???? Too bad for me that I did not see the relational magnet at play.
I don't know if this applies but there is a zen saying (a koan/riddle) that says, "To live with a difficult person. Nirvana."
But the great lesson is to know what to avoid and be able to see it sooner , so you invest in healthy relationships with your self and others.
One of the dogs I've adopted along way, the one that I have now, was probably the worst dog in the world. lol. Every imaginable behavior issue. But he taught me more about dogs than probably 1000 would have. He forced me to understand him thoroughly, 'swallow him whole'. I'll take good care of him for the rest of his life but I will not take on another one like him again. Because of him, I can quickly suss out any dog. I gained a reputation in the city to accompany people to dog parks with their dogs so they can understand the behaviors that go in there with their own dog and others.
I've never had a puppy. Always rescuing basket cases. But when I do finally get one, it's going to be the breed of my choice and from the best breeder in the world I can find. Because that's what I deserve.
 
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OP
Amber

Amber

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You are such a smart girl. Sometimes when I read posts on this forum, I have a picture in my mind of the person's age and then get blown away when I learn they are in the 20's or even teens. You are incredibly self aware and have amazingly sleuthed out where to find insightful direction.
I didn't figure out the relational dynamics in my home were, um, "off" , until I was in my 40's. I tend to look for the pony. And my coping strategies (subconscious) were to become invisible, did a lot of song-writing and poetry/prose, was a loner, did a lot of wandering, got a mohawk and fronted a hard-core punk band.
But better awareness then would have helped me avoid getting ensnared into this familiar dynamics later in life. That's the best lesson. Learn to see it quickly in other people and move on. Avoid those ensnarements.
The dynamic manifests differently in each kid. I was popular but in a neutral, non-clicky way. They thought I was cool. So I could have had all the friends I wanted. Heck I could have been a cult hero. But for my close (dyadic) girl friends, they tended, in retrospect, to be bullies. Why didn't I pick the lovely ones or the ones who really wanted to know me???? Too bad for me that I did not see the relational magnet at play.
I don't know if this applies but there is a zen saying (a koan/riddle) that says, "To live with a difficult person. Nirvana."
But the great lesson is to know what to avoid and be able to see it sooner , so you invest in healthy relationships with your self and others.
One of the dogs I've adopted along way, the one that I have now, was probably the worst dog in the world. lol. Every imaginable behavior issue. But he taught me more about dogs than probably 1000 would have. He forced me to understand him thoroughly, 'swallow him whole'. I'll take good care of him for the rest of his life but I will not take on another one like him again. Because of him, I can quickly suss out any dog. I gained a reputation in the city to accompany people to dog parks with their dogs so they can understand the behaviors that go in there with their own dog and others.
I've never had a puppy. Always rescuing basket cases. But when I do finally get one, it's going to be the breed of my choice and from the best breeder in the world I can find. Because that's what I deserve.

Thanks for your reply. When you called me smart it made me very happy lol :)
 
OP
Amber

Amber

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Hi guys,

I went to the doctor to get a magnesium blood test which showed elevated magnesium levels in my blood. My blood pressure was also way too low like always but it had gotten even lower since supplementing high doses of magnesium. My doctor told me to stop taking magnesium and increase my calcium intake. My sodium levels were also too low which i understand is a consequence of supplementing high doses of magnesium since calcium and sodium work together outside of the cell and magnesium would then in turn decrease calcium levels which would also decrease sodium levels? Im not sure about this but it makes sense to me.

So to increase my calcium intake, im gonna try 1L of skim milk daily which supplies 1200mg calcium and stop the magnesium supplements.
 

Marcus1000

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Feb 25, 2017
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Hi guys,

I went to the doctor to get a magnesium blood test which showed elevated magnesium levels in my blood. My blood pressure was also way too low like always but it had gotten even lower since supplementing high doses of magnesium. My doctor told me to stop taking magnesium and increase my calcium intake. My sodium levels were also too low which i understand is a consequence of supplementing high doses of magnesium since calcium and sodium work together outside of the cell and magnesium would then in turn decrease calcium levels which would also decrease sodium levels? Im not sure about this but it makes sense to me.

So to increase my calcium intake, im gonna try 1L of skim milk daily which supplies 1200mg calcium and stop the magnesium supplements.
Hello Amber,

Make sure you drink the skim milk on room temp or a bit higher, straight out of the fridge (very cold) it seems much harder to digest for many people.
Also I am wondering how much calories you take in currently?
 
OP
Amber

Amber

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Hello Amber,

Make sure you drink the skim milk on room temp or a bit higher, straight out of the fridge (very cold) it seems much harder to digest for many people.
Also I am wondering how much calories you take in currently?

Hi,

Im eating around 2200-2400 calories atm, with atleast 70 grams of protein.
 

DaveFoster

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Check out my log; it's called "Dave's Recovery Log," without the comma. I cured myself of chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. I'm going to make a podcast episode on the topic as well.
 

Mito

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Dec 10, 2016
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Hi guys,

I went to the doctor to get a magnesium blood test which showed elevated magnesium levels in my blood. My blood pressure was also way too low like always but it had gotten even lower since supplementing high doses of magnesium.
Which blood test did your doctor run, serum or red blood cell? What dose of magnesium were your supplementing with?
 
OP
Amber

Amber

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Which blood test did your doctor run, serum or red blood cell? What dose of magnesium were your supplementing with?

Hi,

It was a serum test which i now just found out is not accurate. My doc said it was a little elevated so i should stop supplementing it. The doses i supplemented varied a little but it was usually in the 800-1400mg range. The magnesium i used was either glycinate or malate.
 

Mito

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It was a serum test which i now just found out is not accurate.
It's not that the serum test is not accurate, it's just not useful for determining magnesium deficiency unless you are extremely deficient. This is because magnesium is primarily an intracellular mineral so you need a test that measures the amount of magnesium inside the cell to determine a magnesium deficiency. High serum magnesium probably indicates poor kidney function or supplementing at such a high rate that the kidneys can't clear the excess fast enough. Peat talks about how adequate thyroid function is necessary for cells to take up serum magnesium so that could also be involved.

The doses i supplemented varied a little but it was usually in the 800-1400mg range. The magnesium i used was either glycinate or malate.
That is a pretty high dose unless know you are magnesium deficient. And both magnesium glycinate and magnesium malate are usually very well absorbed.
 
OP
Amber

Amber

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It's not that the serum test is not accurate, it's just not useful for determining magnesium deficiency unless you are extremely deficient. This is because magnesium is primarily an intracellular mineral so you need a test that measures the amount of magnesium inside the cell to determine a magnesium deficiency. High serum magnesium probably indicates poor kidney function or supplementing at such a high rate that the kidneys can't clear the excess fast enough. Peat talks about how adequate thyroid function is necessary for cells to take up serum magnesium so that could also be involved.

That is a pretty high dose unless know you are magnesium deficient. And both magnesium glycinate and magnesium malate are usually very well absorbed.

Thanks for your reply, very helpful. Last few weeks i noticed i got extremely bloated from the magnesium so i tried to lower my dose. Right now im consuming more calcium to try and balance it.

Do you have any more advice for me?
 

Mito

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Thanks for your reply, very helpful. Last few weeks i noticed i got extremely bloated from the magnesium so i tried to lower my dose. Right now im consuming more calcium to try and balance it.

Do you have any more advice for me?
If your doctor tests for magnesium again, request the RBC magnesium test. It measures intracellular magnesium for the red blood cells which a much better indication of magnesium status.

If you continue to get bloating or any gut irritation at all from magnesium supplements, I would consider trying this one https://www.swansonvitamins.com/car...D7T9oWz5_HeWXqSwagHdudpGWlF9ll670aBoCx5fw_wcB or stopping all oral magnesium supplementation and switching to only transdermal magnesium cream, lotion, or gel. But if your serum magnesium level was out of range it's probably best not to supplement until you get that corrected.
 
OP
Amber

Amber

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Hi guys,

I hope someone can help me because im pretty scared atm.
I tried some progesterone cream last night (100mg) and right now im having hot flashes, pain around my liver, bloating, headache, shortness of breath, crying spells/extremely emotional, very puffy/swollen legs, nipples and face and feel overstimulated mentally but no energy physically..

Why would progesterone cause this? How long does one dose work? This is like the fifth time i tried it and i have always had some of those symptoms but right now its very extreme. Im definitely quitting progesterone, just threw it in the trash :(
 
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aquaman

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Stop using progesterone! I know it's a bit fatuous to say. But don't use hormones until you have everything else in place first. So many people experiment with tons of things on this forum (including myself) and very little seems to work. What's your diet like at the moment and also your training and other life stresses? (Same as before?)

First get your diet on point, and cut down your training - are still training 6 days a week?. Then work on your home/family situation. If you're not happy at home, I don't think a random supplement will fix your issues. You're consuming a lot of supplements, it would be better to list your foods, timing of meals, calories and macros. Are you balancing fat, sugars and protein at every meal?A good target would be 25% - 50% - 25%

I saw this site launched - Home could be worth a read for you (it's putting an auto-tag on this as "Home" - the site is called "My Horrid Parent")

There's a good post by Kate Deering about moving to a different diet - How to Successfully Shift to a Metabolically Supportive Diet. | Kate Deering Fitness & Nutrition

Notice how she had huge mood/hormonal swings in the transition.

BEST OF LUCK. Time is on your side.

Edit: metabolism is linked to intelligence. Your metabolism is shot, so your brain won't be working properly. Another reason why not to artificially load yourself with hormones and supplements without providing enough calories. I guess as an active 18 year old you should work up to 2500 over the next couple of months, with more focus in the morning (it raises your metabolism earlier in the day)
 
OP
Amber

Amber

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Stop using progesterone! I know it's a bit fatuous to say. But don't use hormones until you have everything else in place first. So many people experiment with tons of things on this forum (including myself) and very little seems to work. What's your diet like at the moment and also your training and other life stresses? (Same as before?)

First get your diet on point, and cut down your training - are still training 6 days a week?. Then work on your home/family situation. If you're not happy at home, I don't think a random supplement will fix your issues. You're consuming a lot of supplements, it would be better to list your foods, timing of meals, calories and macros. Are you balancing fat, sugars and protein at every meal?A good target would be 25% - 50% - 25%

I saw this site launched - Home could be worth a read for you (it's putting an auto-tag on this as "Home" - the site is called "My Horrid Parent")

There's a good post by Kate Deering about moving to a different diet - How to Successfully Shift to a Metabolically Supportive Diet. | Kate Deering Fitness & Nutrition

Notice how she had huge mood/hormonal swings in the transition.

BEST OF LUCK. Time is on your side.

Edit: metabolism is linked to intelligence. Your metabolism is shot, so your brain won't be working properly. Another reason why not to artificially load yourself with hormones and supplements without providing enough calories. I guess as an active 18 year old you should work up to 2500 over the next couple of months, with more focus in the morning (it raises your metabolism earlier in the day)

Thanks for the reply :)

My diet is 25% protein 15% fat and 60% carbs, usually around 2200 calories daily.

You mention frequent eating, but it makes me a lot worse. After each meal i blow up like a balloon and get emotional, no energy etc. I just dont wanna eat most of the time because i know how bad i will feel after like today i only had one meal and felt completely awful again.. All of this makes me think im insulin resistant. I have no idea how i can be insulin resistant since im young and active but i'd say stress. Calcium also makes this a lot worse i've found out so i limit it to 500mg daily.

I dont have any desire to do things after eating besides getting back to bed and sleep so i don't have to feel that way anymore. Very unhealthy and depressing state to be in especially as an 18 year old.

I stopped exercising 6 times/week and am now down to 2 times a week 90 mins each time but it's still pretty intense. I cant leave my soccer team right now since we have only 12 players and we need 11 to even play. 2 more games and the season is over so i can full relax. The exercise makes me a little better but way way more fatigued etc.

I have also gotten intolerant to sunlight and heat like, i can't sit in the sun anymore it burns me out and makes me feel so so so bad and i have no idea why.
...

The things i tried and made me worse:

- progesterone (makes me puffy, headache, fatigue, acne on back)
- small amounts of t3 and t3/t4 combo (puffy/dizzy)
- more calcium: headaches, excessive sweating, bad mood
- 6 meals a day: explained above

Things that DO help me

- sleep
- high dose magnesium helps A LOT, but makes me a little bloated
- high protein
- more salt
- intermittent fasting 18hr fast - 6hrs eating
- low fat

Any advice would help really.

Btw, i did some research on DHEA and it seems like a cure for all of my problems. Also read that progesterone antagonizes DHEA which could cause low androgens/testosterone. Maybe im low on androgens? I dont know anymore its more of a guessing game at the moment

Edit: forgot to mention, i have developed acne on my back and it really annoys me. I googled it and makes me point to insulin resistance. Any thoughts on this?
[tara: content removed on request from OP]
 
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Amber

Amber

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So i just woke up and my breasts got like twice their size lol. Am also having hot flashes and still swelling in legs. Bloated like im pregnant and all of this because i took progesterone. o_O
 
OP
Amber

Amber

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A little update: i just got my period, so maybe that might play a role in it as well.
 
OP
Amber

Amber

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I hope someone is still reading this.

I had my cortisol/estrogen/progesterone/blood sugar levels tested last week and got the results back today which didn't make me happy.. Estrogen was too high, progesterone too low, cortisol slightly in the high range and my bloodsugar was high/normal. I did a glucose test which showed 'reactice hypoglycemia'. I dont have the exact numbers. My doctor said he 'could' diagnose me with PCOS (got most of the symptoms) but said it wouldn't make a difference since they cant treat it? :shifty:
 

Matt1951

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What is your hemoglobin and serum ferritin? Most of Ray Peat's advice for lowering iron stores applies well to older people. For a young person, you should have a ferritin over 50 if you are athletic. Hemoglobin can be normal, but if you have a low ferritin, you will feel anemic. T4 to T3 conversion requires iron.
 

tara

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I like a lot of the advice in @aquaman 's post.
Also wouldn't surprise me if Xisca's right that the remaining effects from surgery and anaesthesia might take some particular recovery.

I think I read that progesterone can increase sodium loss. Wonder if that could be part of what happened to you with the progesterone cream. Maybe you could try adding a bit more salt to your food (within what tastes good to you ATM) and see if it helps right now?

Feeling bloated and tired when eating more is a normal response to beginning to eat more after severe/prolonged energy deficit. It doesn't necessarily mean it's not working or not what you need. Food and rest might be exactly what you need. But there are some potential hazards - esp. refeeding syndrome, which is fairly rare, and treatable if attended to quickly, but can be very dangerous if not treated quickly. (I think it involves badly unbalance electrolytes.)
Having a dr who knows about/has some experience with helping people recover from anorexia and related issues, and letting her/him know how little you have been eating and how much you have been exercising over the last few years and that you want to change that and recover from this could be a safety tactic. If you try to a tell this to a dr who is clueless on the subject, I wouldn't have much confidence that they would understand the problem or offer much help (there are a few anorexic drs about, and standard diet and exercise advice is likely to do more harm).

I had my cortisol/estrogen/progesterone/blood sugar levels tested last week and got the results back today which didn't make me happy.. Estrogen was too high, progesterone too low, cortisol slightly in the high range and my bloodsugar was high/normal. I did a glucose test which showed 'reactice hypoglycemia'.
I think if you are prone to reactive hypoglycemia, that means your blood sugars can suddenly crash out too low, and that you may need to be ready with snacks/juice on hand to address it immediately when it happens. Or maybe premeptively with small snacks/ little drinks of juice regularly every hour at least. Do you think you can notice when it happens?
Can you retrieve that progesterone cream? Even if it's not the thing to use first up now while you are too depleted, you might still be wanting it in a while, once you get basic nutrition in place? Hardly surprising that your cortisol is highish, given the stress your under and the role that cortisol has to play in meeting that.
 
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Amber

Amber

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I like a lot of the advice in @aquaman 's post.
Also wouldn't surprise me if Xisca's right that the remaining effects from surgery and anaesthesia might take some particular recovery.

I think I read that progesterone can increase sodium loss. Wonder if that could be part of what happened to you with the progesterone cream. Maybe you could try adding a bit more salt to your food (within what tastes good to you ATM) and see if it helps right now?

Feeling bloated and tired when eating more is a normal response to beginning to eat more after severe/prolonged energy deficit. It doesn't necessarily mean it's not working or not what you need. Food and rest might be exactly what you need. But there are some potential hazards - esp. refeeding syndrome, which is fairly rare, and treatable if attended to quickly, but can be very dangerous if not treated quickly. (I think it involves badly unbalance electrolytes.)
Having a dr who knows about/has some experience with helping people recover from anorexia and related issues, and letting her/him know how little you have been eating and how much you have been exercising over the last few years and that you want to change that and recover from this could be a safety tactic. If you try to a tell this to a dr who is clueless on the subject, I wouldn't have much confidence that they would understand the problem or offer much help (there are a few anorexic drs about, and standard diet and exercise advice is likely to do more harm).

I think if you are prone to reactive hypoglycemia, that means your blood sugars can suddenly crash out too low, and that you may need to be ready with snacks/juice on hand to address it immediately when it happens. Or maybe premeptively with small snacks/ little drinks of juice regularly every hour at least. Do you think you can notice when it happens?
Can you retrieve that progesterone cream? Even if it's not the thing to use first up now while you are too depleted, you might still be wanting it in a while, once you get basic nutrition in place? Hardly surprising that your cortisol is highish, given the stress your under and the role that cortisol has to play in meeting that.

Yes i still have the progesterone but im not using it any time soon. I noticed that whenever i try to increase metabolism with supplements i crash really bad, it happens with progesterone, too many carbs/too little protein, t3 and even zinc supplements. I took some zinc on saturday and have been in bed since then with swollen lymph nodes, fatigue, acne, oily skin etc. What i found out is that the only thing that helps at these moments is magnesium which reminded me of the fact that ray peat once said your magnesium needs go up when you first try to increase metabolism, but i seem to need a huge ammount of magnesium for it to help (1GR or more some days).

Might be pretty deficient, will ask my doc for rbc magnesium test.
 
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