Is there a Peaty explanation for why I can't gain muscle and strength?

[ReSTART]

Where is the line drawn between too high and just right? I don't track macros anymore, but that diet I listed is about 100g of fat, and about 160g of carbs. This is a macro split I've used successfully in the past to cut bodyfat. Carbs are higher when maintaining/gaining.

I'm running 15-20g of fat now on the advice of the good folks here. It's not going well so far, feeling extremely lethargic upon waking in the morning. Going to try to push through it for a couple more weeks to see if that changes.

10-30% of total calories from fat, as saturated as possible. High fat is good for bulking and vitamin mineral absorption but useless apart from that.

If you’ve put in thousands of hours into working out and consuming content, there’s no way lowering your fat intake or taking a handful of supplements is going to magically help you gain muscle. Your best bet is to get blood tests done and see what your T levels are.

Correct t levels have to be checked

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Still recommend a Dutch test tbh

I ordered the DUTCH Complete test this morning. I will respond here with the results as soon as I get them.

 

[David90]

Thanks for these!


Yeah I haven't figured out the right variable yet. If I eat large meal close to bedtime, it helps with sleep. Not sure yet if it's the carbs in general, sugar specifically, the salt, etc.


This has been my approach over the years, my prior comment on 3x5 was taken out of context. I was trying to explain my current strength level in that rep range, not list an entire program.

You're Welcome.

It could be the large amount of carbs, close to bedtime, since it helps you relax and feel kinda ''sleepy''. I would take the last meal at least 1-1,5 Hours before Bedtime.

Ok. It was only a explanation from my side, what the actual science says regarding on workout and training(-volume).

Not sure what your problem is, but I'd bet that it doesn't have anything to do with previously eating too much fat. Fat wouldn't make a person weak lol.

Old-school bodybuilders used to mix their protein powder with half-and-half instead of milk...and got pretty dang strong doing so.

The Secret of Rheo H. Blair’s Protein Powder - Physical Culture Study

Having discussed Bob Hoffman's (failed) attempts to create a protein powder that was both tasty and efficient, the time seems right to examine Rheo H. Blair's famous protein powder from the mid-twentieth century. Iron game historians will long be aware that Blair's protein powder was the go to...

physicalculturestudy.com

Interesting Link. I find the quote also interesting from the article:

Over several years, Blair found that bodybuilders eating a milk and egg diet tended to gain more muscle and remain leaner than those using all-meat diets. This convinced him that an egg-milk powder was the best option for trainees.

I think @haidut mentioned something like that in the past (if my memory serves me well) that for adults, getting your protein sources from milk and eggs is mainly better. I do that nowadays too. I eat (throughout the week) meat very rarely, if at all. I eat only meat on the weekend (or on sunday). My protein sources (throughout the week) mainly comes from Parmigano Reggiano/Pecorino Romano/Grana Padano (Parmesan Cheese), Milk and Eggs.
Sometimes i use a protein bar / protein shake / gelatin shake too, if i think, i can't hit my protein target for the day.

If you’ve put in thousands of hours into working out and consuming content, there’s no way lowering your fat intake or taking a handful of supplements is going to magically help you gain muscle. Your best bet is to get blood tests done and see what your T levels are.

Same here. I would go and get a blood test done, with the things i mentioned before, that you should be testing. Then we will see a clearer picture and maybe find out if there is anything wrong.

 

[AlaskaJono]

Lots of great info here, from many different angles, and though I am not lifting now, I have long history of lifting and deliberate diet. (I am 57 yo). Always active until recently, back issues. I respond quickly to exercise, and with rest, gain strength (and some size) easily.
Some items:
1) General Digestion - Bowel Mvmnts good? firm stools? Not too loose or constipated? Good level is 2 or 3x day if you eat 3 meals a day.

2) Sleep must be better for general health, much more so for athletic activity. Try periactin 1/2 pill (2mg) between dinner and bedtime. Also serotonin reducer, and can help to sleep deeper, but will not make you sleepy. I have allergies and sometimes take 4 gm pill in the day and it has no sleepy effects for me. Or my wife who is smaller.

3)How many days a week are you lifting, and how long is your session? If you are lifting 5 days a week, and doing the same basic heavy lifts, that is not enough time for your muscles to grow. If you do a chest day (mainly + calves and traps) and a Leg day + ?your choice and a back day + extras that gives your body time to grow between heavy lifts. Just an example. One can go to the gym and do different excercise than normal - like whole body lifting or swimming or pullups, mix it up, but try not to do same lifts everyday of the week. Maybe your body can do say 2 chest days a week, but.... seems like rest is vital to optimize your current situation. Also if you are doing mucho cardio 5 days a week, you will almost never add much bodyweight.

4)What do you eat/drink pre/during/post workout? I have always had something sugary pre and during, even diluted apple juice! is great. Or a mix of dextrose gatorade type stuff, but usually homemade. Also Vital: Post work out within 1 hour or sooner eat simple protein (chicken or what is handy or leftover) and carbs (sugar). This is critical from what I read 30 years ago and I found it to be true. Even if it is a 1/2 meal portion, or 1/3 meal portion, if you do not eat you are losing. (catabolism). Simple as that.

Also, your height/weight (I'm 5'10" and about 175lbs and have been for 30+ years) seems fine, but you want to add weight as in Strong Man? Is this it? Or just add a few more lbs of meat - like 5 or 10lbs? If you are adding weight as you stated mostly around your waist then obviously you are not growing muscle very much. Think estrogen and where it could be coming from, and cortisol. Also just because you do not feel stressed does not mean there is an absence of stress. Hopefully this Dutch test will give some good info for you.

I personally subscribe to the pyramid style of sets/reps: Increase Weights as the sets go down : Approx. 5 or 6 sets : Warm up set 20 Reps/light set 15 reps/+ more plates 12 reps/ + more10 reps/+ more 7 or 8 reps/ last set 5 Reps. Every 2 or 3 weeks I might do these 5 Real sets and get down to 3 Reps for max weight for fun.

You Big 3 Lifts are not bad even super good : DL = Bodyweight + 30, Squat = similar, Chest = 160 lbs. ( ok do more here...)

Again just look at your program and decide a new approach for X amount of time. Find out the results. As @Phosphor stated he is a similar body type and had similar results to you. And yes, as others said, fat will not make you weaker, so either you are not eating enough in general, overtraining, or some imbalance is inhibiting your potential. Keep on it mate.

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

Hi everyone, I FINALLY got my DUTCH test results back. Any feedback/comments/advice/concerns are greatly appreciated, as much of this data goes over my head. The included notes from the lab suggest I may have hypothyroid problems (what a surprise). I was also disappointed to see my testosterone levels are low for my age (28 y/o male).

 

[Neeters 27]

I hope you mean 15 to 20 grams of fat per meal, not per day!

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

I hope you mean 15 to 20 grams of fat per meal, not per day!

Was this meant for me?

 

[redsun]

Hi everyone, I FINALLY got my DUTCH test results back. Any feedback/comments/advice/concerns are greatly appreciated, as much of this data goes over my head. The included notes from the lab suggest I may have hypothyroid problems (what a surprise). I was also disappointed to see my testosterone levels are low for my age (28 y/o male).

How is your vascularity? Are your veins prominent (very easy to see) or hard to see? Do you get much of a pump in your muscles when they are exercised properly (somewhat heavy weight which is used for 5x5 programs)?

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

How is your vascularity? Are your veins prominent (very easy to see) or hard to see? Do you get much of a pump in your muscles when they are exercised properly (somewhat heavy weight which is used for 5x5 programs)?

I would say I have poor vascularity. I don't have any veins protruding from my arms. They're difficult to see.

I get a noticeable pump when I lift weights, particularly in the biceps, triceps, and delts.

 

[redsun]

I would say I have poor vascularity. I don't have any veins protruding from my arms. They're difficult to see.

I get a noticeable pump when I lift weights, particularly in the biceps, triceps, and delts.

The way we adapt to exercise is through damage to the muscle and inflammatory signalling which helps repair and grow the muscle. Its possible you have issues with this pathway. It doesnt help the fact that your diet is lowish in PUFA but thankfully since you eat a lot of eggs it has arachidonic acid at least which is one of the important molecules necessary to do this.

I suggest you try 2g of L-histidine for a little while to see if it stimulates growth. Histamine is the major signalling molecule involved in post-exercise vasodilation and also improves insulin sensitivity in the muscle. Reminder that insulin is one of the most important anabolic hormones and effective at promoting growth of tissue. Histamine also affects gene expression in response to exercise.

The Intriguing Role of Histamine in Exercise Responses

In humans, histamine is a molecular transducer of physical activity responses, and antihistamines modify > 25% of the genes responding to exercise. Although the upstream signal that results in release of histamine within exercising skeletal muscle ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

The way we adapt to exercise is through damage to the muscle and inflammatory signalling which helps repair and grow the muscle. Its possible you have issues with this pathway. It doesnt help the fact that your diet is lowish in PUFA but thankfully since you eat a lot of eggs it has arachidonic acid at least which is one of the important molecules necessary does this.

I suggest you try 2g of L-histidine for a little while to see if it stimulates growth. Histamine is the major signalling molecule involved in post-exercise vasodilation and also improves insulin sensitivity in the muscle. Reminder that insulin is one of the most important anabolic hormones and effective at promoting growth of tissue. Histamine also affects gene expression in response to exercise.

The Intriguing Role of Histamine in Exercise Responses

In humans, histamine is a molecular transducer of physical activity responses, and antihistamines modify > 25% of the genes responding to exercise. Although the upstream signal that results in release of histamine within exercising skeletal muscle ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I've been lifting for 9.5 years now, and the majority of that time has been on standard American high-PUFA diets. It never made a difference. I've only just hopped on the Peaty bandwagon last Fall.

I will give L-histidine a shot, thank you ?

 

[Sapien]

I know this isn't a bodybuilding forum, but there are a lot of fit folks here with far better RP knowledge than me that might be able to help. I was inspired to post this after reading an insane body transformation post by a forum user.

I'm a late 20's male, a bit over 6ft tall, around 185lbs who has been lifting for 9 years. My best deadlift is 315lbs for 1 rep in 2018. My best bench press is 160lbs for 2 reps in 2017. Best squat is 235 lbs for 5 reps in 2021. Best overhead press is 105lbs for 5 reps in 2020. I'm really embarrassed by my performance.

I've spent thousands of hours over the past decade consuming fitness and nutrition content via YouTube, various blogs in the internet, and numerous books. Yet during this period, I've made no progress in the gym. I can't get strong. I don't gain any muscle. It's like my body just won't adapt to any stimulus I give it.

I've run several "bulks" in the past where I'll gain significant weight (I've done +20lbs in 2 months on several occasions) but I don't gain any muscle or strength; my lifts stall at these pathetically low levels and all the bodyweight gain goes to my love handles. I've spent most of these years tracking everything religiously in a spreadsheet - workouts (Starting Strength, 5/3/1, nSuns, Super Squats, U/L, PPL, and more), food intake (I own 3 food scales), etc.

Yet I've trained with so many guys over the years that don't track at all, just show up at the gym, progressively overload the barbell compound lifts, eat McDonalds, and show very visible muscle gains within 3-6 months. Hell, I know an average height/weight girl that deadlifts more than me after only 3 years of training.

I've always wanted to look like I lift, so my failure in this regard really messes with my psyche. I have no health conditions that I am aware of and wonder if there isn't something Peaty-related I could be missing. Any help/advice appreciated.

Below I am posting my response to the thread titled "exercise the ray peat way?". I believe i have found not only the most peaty way to build muscle, but perhaps one of the most effective in general

This is a topic I have been pondering as of late, as a peaty young male looking to build muscle safely and effectively. Ray mentions that muscle mass is beneficial as it increases RMB, and also cited studies that show bodybuilders live longer. However, he has concerns with the eccentric stuff and lactic acid production.

So in summary- a good training routine is one that builds muscle, avoids eccentric movements, and minimizes muscle oxygen debt (i.e, "the pump) as it increases lactic acid.

He once said something along the lines of "brief, infrequent use of muscle is good" (probably butchered the quote but something along those line)

His advice reminded me of a famous bodybuilder in the 80's, Mike Mentzer, who postulated that all bodybuilders are overtraining, and the principals of muscle growth only required a brief and infrequent session to momentary muscular failure. Interestingly, in Synchronicity fashion, I discovered Ray's work just weeks after discovering Mentzer. I noticed great crossover between the two. Mentzer actually cited Hans Selyes "the stress of life" in one of his books about the harms of overtraining, which blew me away. Even Mikes nutritional advice was peaty, emphasizing the importance of (simple) carbohydrates and sugar, and dispelling the myth of the whey(ste product) protein industry that you needed to overload the body with protein to build muscle.

He has some great lectures on youtube on the topic of HIT, specifically, his audio tapes: The logical path to successful bodybuilding are a MUST watch for anyone interested in the topic of building muscle. He was a very intelligent man, many regarded him as a philosopher, and after watching these tapes you will realize why. His articulate speaking manner and use of logic is extremely impressive. He dispels much of the authoritarian dogma in the fitness industry, and like Peat, attempts to teach one about the science behind the topic rather than just giving a protocol. In other words, he was a proponent of "Perceive, Think, Act".

In my opinion, the theory of High Intensity Training is the most logical, science backed theory of effective exercise, and is the antithesis of the current state of bodybuilding- high volume "pump" style workouts popularized by Arnold (Mentzer's arch nemesis).

His training was based on the work of a man named Arthur jones, the inventor of Nautilus equipment proved that brief exercise to failure is the optimal way to build muscle

There is a book titled "body by science" that goes into this in more detail for anyone interested. Mentzer also has serval books of his own

As peaty as all of this sounds, minimizing the amount of stress to the organism and only doing the bare minimum required, there is still the concern of both eccentric movements and lactic acid, albeit to a DRASTICALLY lower degree.

Coauthor of body by science, John Little (a friend and disciple of Mentzer), has a program that implements these principals of brief, infrequent maximal effort training, AND eliminates these two issues. I present to you: Max contraction training (link). He talks about how a scientist in the 50s proved great results simply by a maximal muscular contraction of just 1-6 seconds.

I have applied this routine to a degree, simply contracting a muscle as hard as possible either on its own or against an immovable object (isometric), briefly and infrequently, and I honestly have had better results doing this the past 2 months than in years of traditional bodybuilding. Each day I wake up in amazement of my progress. I will see muscles that I never knew I had; a couple days after a single pull up I noticed new muscles in my upper back that I had never seen before; after a single rep of a chest contraction I grew my stubborn upper chest more in one workout that I never seemed to build with years of bench press (
"Why I never bench press and you shouldn't either" ) .

Some examples of exercises I will do are: flexing bicep in maximal contracted position as hard as possible by using a doorknob, doing the concentric part of a pull up and maximally contracting for a few seconds at the top then dropping, contracting hamstring by lying down placing heel against the ground, holding the contracted portion of a "mountain climber" pose or sit up for abs, simply contracting my rhomboids or rear delts super hard, doing a "lateral raise" against the bottom of my work desk to provide an immovable resistance, placing my forearm against the back of my (opposite) hamstring and contracting my chest across my body, etc etc. Pretty much anything that you feel a contraction will be effective, you can play around yourself. Using weights in a manner shown in the max contraction video is probably just as if not more viable, but I have seen great results even without going to the gym. The many forms of Isometrics I mentioned, contracting against an immovable object, will provide great stimulation as it will recruit ALL of the possible muscle fibers MAXIMALLY. This is a key principal of HIT (henemens size principal), fatiguing the fast twitch muscle fibers. It can be achieved in any rep range by simply training to failure, but isometrics allow you to do so with minimal/no lactic acid as only one contraction is required.

There was a wrestler named the great gama, who is famous for going 5000-0 in his bouts (yes you read that right) , who touted the benefits of maximal isometric contractions that inspired me to use immovable objects instead of the weights shown in the max contraction video. (that and I don't have a training partner crazy enough to train this way with me lol) Essentially it is the same concept, providing maximal resistance, stimulating the fast twitch muscle fibers ( henemens size principal).

'One day after defeating an opponent much larger than he, someone asked him how he was able to get so strong.' "
“It’s really quite simple,” the Indian said good-naturedly. “In the Punjab, where I lived there was a large tree behind my house. Each morning I would rise up early, tie my belt around it, and try to throw it down.” “A tree?” the boy marveled. “For twenty years.” “And you did it?” “No, little one,” Gama smiled, “but after a tree…a man is easy.” Great gama (link) .

^ This may sound like "bro science", but it actually is an example of "Heneman's size principal" in action. When contracting against an immovable object, you are using ALL of your possible effort, thus stimulating fast twitch muscle fibers.

This all may sound unbelievable, too good to be true; is it really not only possible but OPTIMAL to train this brief and infrequently?; but when one considers the biochemistry of the subject, it makes sense. Muscles are ANEROBIC, the opposite of AEROBIC exercise. This is why sprinters have very muscular legs, while a marathon runner is almost always frail. High intensity, short duration exercise such as sprinting uses predominantly fast twitch, carbohydrate burning fibers, while jogging uses slow twitch fibers that rely on fat. It is the fast twitch muscle fibers that are a lot more prone to growth

While the principals of HIT have been demonstrated scientifically ( View: https://youtu.be/ag5YMTcAudw, View: https://youtu.be/NndeNFVf9eU , View: https://youtu.be/wVYEjFZAERw ), and shown to work in practice by the success of Mentzer and Dorian Yates, these principals have been all but forgotten. It was only through an unrelenting, thorough search for a logical approach to building muscle that I discovered HIT. I have always been unconvinced of the science of traditional bodybuilding; I would follow routines and wonder WHY 3 sets of 10 ( View: https://youtu.be/hddsfYdaZ1k ), why 2 minutes of rest, why not 53 seconds of rest? All of these arbitrary decrees never sat right with me. In science, there is no room for the arbitrary, The principals of HIT initially defined by Arthur Jones and popularized by Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates use science and logic, rather than the arbitrary tradition based programs that are popular today.

As to why it's unknown and forgotten, I don't really have a good answer other than the fact that we live in a "dark age" to some degree, with sheeple believing whatever the popular opinion is, rather than using the logical principals created by Aristotle to cultivate knowledge. It is through the use of logic and reason that I was able to discover ray peat and the community, rather than believing whatever info the dietary guidelines told me, and these same principals of logic led me to discover HIT. As a group of logic based people who Perceive, Think, Act; rather than cultivating information simply because an authority figure told you something, I know you all will really appreciate the science based approach of HIT.

The implications of this are staggering. The entire fitness industry is following the high volume approach simply out of tradition, not logic or science. I wonder how many people's lives would be changed with a proper approach to building muscle, how many more people would take up the sport if only minutes a week were necessary. Hell, a gym membership isn't even required! If anyone decided to try these principals out for themselves (after thorough evaluation of the logic of the theory, not per my advice , {Perceive Think Act!}), please update us with your results!

(P.S , I probably did a poor job explaining the exact science behind HIT, Henemens size principal, fast twitch muscles etc., I recommend reading the works of Dr Doug mcguff, Mike mentzer, Arthur jones and the content of Jay Vincent. This post was a spur of the moment thing after seeing this forum on the home page, I just did my best based on my knowledge of the topic)

(this is a copy of the post i made on the thread "exercise the ray peat way", I am posting it in other forums that seem related )

 

[dallascat]

Below I am posting my response to the thread titled "exercise the ray peat way?". I believe i have found not only the most peaty way to build muscle, but perhaps one of the most effective in general

This is a topic I have been pondering as of late, as a peaty young male looking to build muscle safely and effectively. Ray mentions that muscle mass is beneficial as it increases RMB, and also cited studies that show bodybuilders live longer. However, he has concerns with the eccentric stuff and lactic acid production.

So in summary- a good training routine is one that builds muscle, avoids eccentric movements, and minimizes muscle oxygen debt (i.e, "the pump) as it increases lactic acid.

He once said something along the lines of "brief, infrequent use of muscle is good" (probably butchered the quote but something along those line)

His advice reminded me of a famous bodybuilder in the 80's, Mike Mentzer, who postulated that all bodybuilders are overtraining, and the principals of muscle growth only required a brief and infrequent session to momentary muscular failure. Interestingly, in Synchronicity fashion, I discovered Ray's work just weeks after discovering Mentzer. I noticed great crossover between the two. Mentzer actually cited Hans Selyes "the stress of life" in one of his books about the harms of overtraining, which blew me away. Even Mikes nutritional advice was peaty, emphasizing the importance of (simple) carbohydrates and sugar, and dispelling the myth of the whey(ste product) protein industry that you needed to overload the body with protein to build muscle.

He has some great lectures on youtube on the topic of HIT, specifically, his audio tapes: The logical path to successful bodybuilding are a MUST watch for anyone interested in the topic of building muscle. He was a very intelligent man, many regarded him as a philosopher, and after watching these tapes you will realize why. His articulate speaking manner and use of logic is extremely impressive. He dispels much of the authoritarian dogma in the fitness industry, and like Peat, attempts to teach one about the science behind the topic rather than just giving a protocol. In other words, he was a proponent of "Perceive, Think, Act".

In my opinion, the theory of High Intensity Training is the most logical, science backed theory of effective exercise, and is the antithesis of the current state of bodybuilding- high volume "pump" style workouts popularized by Arnold (Mentzer's arch nemesis).

His training was based on the work of a man named Arthur jones, the inventor of Nautilus equipment proved that brief exercise to failure is the optimal way to build muscle

There is a book titled "body by science" that goes into this in more detail for anyone interested. Mentzer also has serval books of his own

As peaty as all of this sounds, minimizing the amount of stress to the organism and only doing the bare minimum required, there is still the concern of both eccentric movements and lactic acid, albeit to a DRASTICALLY lower degree.

Coauthor of body by science, John Little (a friend and disciple of Mentzer), has a program that implements these principals of brief, infrequent maximal effort training, AND eliminates these two issues. I present to you: Max contraction training (link). He talks about how a scientist in the 50s proved great results simply by a maximal muscular contraction of just 1-6 seconds.

I have applied this routine to a degree, simply contracting a muscle as hard as possible either on its own or against an immovable object (isometric), briefly and infrequently, and I honestly have had better results doing this the past 2 months than in years of traditional bodybuilding. Each day I wake up in amazement of my progress. I will see muscles that I never knew I had; a couple days after a single pull up I noticed new muscles in my upper back that I had never seen before; after a single rep of a chest contraction I grew my stubborn upper chest more in one workout that I never seemed to build with years of bench press (
"Why I never bench press and you shouldn't either" ) .

Some examples of exercises I will do are: flexing bicep in maximal contracted position as hard as possible by using a doorknob, doing the concentric part of a pull up and maximally contracting for a few seconds at the top then dropping, contracting hamstring by lying down placing heel against the ground, holding the contracted portion of a "mountain climber" pose or sit up for abs, simply contracting my rhomboids or rear delts super hard, doing a "lateral raise" against the bottom of my work desk to provide an immovable resistance, placing my forearm against the back of my (opposite) hamstring and contracting my chest across my body, etc etc. Pretty much anything that you feel a contraction will be effective, you can play around yourself. Using weights in a manner shown in the max contraction video is probably just as if not more viable, but I have seen great results even without going to the gym. The many forms of Isometrics I mentioned, contracting against an immovable object, will provide great stimulation as it will recruit ALL of the possible muscle fibers MAXIMALLY. This is a key principal of HIT (henemens size principal), fatiguing the fast twitch muscle fibers. It can be achieved in any rep range by simply training to failure, but isometrics allow you to do so with minimal/no lactic acid as only one contraction is required.

There was a wrestler named the great gama, who is famous for going 5000-0 in his bouts (yes you read that right) , who touted the benefits of maximal isometric contractions that inspired me to use immovable objects instead of the weights shown in the max contraction video. (that and I don't have a training partner crazy enough to train this way with me lol) Essentially it is the same concept, providing maximal resistance, stimulating the fast twitch muscle fibers ( henemens size principal).

'One day after defeating an opponent much larger than he, someone asked him how he was able to get so strong.' "
“It’s really quite simple,” the Indian said good-naturedly. “In the Punjab, where I lived there was a large tree behind my house. Each morning I would rise up early, tie my belt around it, and try to throw it down.” “A tree?” the boy marveled. “For twenty years.” “And you did it?” “No, little one,” Gama smiled, “but after a tree…a man is easy.” Great gama (link) .

^ This may sound like "bro science", but it actually is an example of "Heneman's size principal" in action. When contracting against an immovable object, you are using ALL of your possible effort, thus stimulating fast twitch muscle fibers.

This all may sound unbelievable, too good to be true; is it really not only possible but OPTIMAL to train this brief and infrequently?; but when one considers the biochemistry of the subject, it makes sense. Muscles are ANEROBIC, the opposite of AEROBIC exercise. This is why sprinters have very muscular legs, while a marathon runner is almost always frail. High intensity, short duration exercise such as sprinting uses predominantly fast twitch, carbohydrate burning fibers, while jogging uses slow twitch fibers that rely on fat. It is the fast twitch muscle fibers that are a lot more prone to growth

While the principals of HIT have been demonstrated scientifically ( View: https://youtu.be/ag5YMTcAudw, View: https://youtu.be/NndeNFVf9eU , View: https://youtu.be/wVYEjFZAERw ), and shown to work in practice by the success of Mentzer and Dorian Yates, these principals have been all but forgotten. It was only through an unrelenting, thorough search for a logical approach to building muscle that I discovered HIT. I have always been unconvinced of the science of traditional bodybuilding; I would follow routines and wonder WHY 3 sets of 10 ( View: https://youtu.be/hddsfYdaZ1k ), why 2 minutes of rest, why not 53 seconds of rest? All of these arbitrary decrees never sat right with me. In science, there is no room for the arbitrary, The principals of HIT initially defined by Arthur Jones and popularized by Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates use science and logic, rather than the arbitrary tradition based programs that are popular today.

As to why it's unknown and forgotten, I don't really have a good answer other than the fact that we live in a "dark age" to some degree, with sheeple believing whatever the popular opinion is, rather than using the logical principals created by Aristotle to cultivate knowledge. It is through the use of logic and reason that I was able to discover ray peat and the community, rather than believing whatever info the dietary guidelines told me, and these same principals of logic led me to discover HIT. As a group of logic based people who Perceive, Think, Act; rather than cultivating information simply because an authority figure told you something, I know you all will really appreciate the science based approach of HIT.

The implications of this are staggering. The entire fitness industry is following the high volume approach simply out of tradition, not logic or science. I wonder how many people's lives would be changed with a proper approach to building muscle, how many more people would take up the sport if only minutes a week were necessary. Hell, a gym membership isn't even required! If anyone decided to try these principals out for themselves (after thorough evaluation of the logic of the theory, not per my advice , {Perceive Think Act!}), please update us with your results!

(P.S , I probably did a poor job explaining the exact science behind HIT, Henemens size principal, fast twitch muscles etc., I recommend reading the works of Dr Doug mcguff, Mike mentzer, Arthur jones and the content of Jay Vincent. This post was a spur of the moment thing after seeing this forum on the home page, I just did my best based on my knowledge of the topic)

(this is a copy of the post i made on the thread "exercise the ray peat way", I am posting it in other forums that seem related )

Great write-up! What is your schedule, timing of workouts, etc?

 

[Sapien]

Great write-up! What is your schedule, timing of workouts, etc?

For a couple weeks I was just sporadically doing a couple isometric exercises every couple days, with great results.
Recently I have decided to start a program called "heavy duty " by mike Mentzer. In this, you are lifting only about twice a week, and only lifting the same muscle about once every 10 days
It consists of about 4 exercises per workout, with only one set per exercise.
I will probably experiment with max contraction training more in the future, but my friend wanted to try heavy duty.
Just did my first workout yesterday, and wow am I sore! crazy how effective these short/ intense workouts are- by far the best workout I've ever done.

 

[blackface]

@DrivesOldTruckA Any updates? Were you able to find the main culprit of your probles? Did any dietary changes help you?

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

@DrivesOldTruckA Any updates? Were you able to find the main culprit of your probles? Did any dietary changes help you?

Hey sorry I'm late, thanks for checking in. Short answer is no, I haven't found any solutions yet. In fact, some of my health issues such as poor sleep have worsened (I've developed really dark circles under my eyes the last two months). I believe I've explored every dietary combination imaginable, but I just can't get anywhere near the optimal metrics of a functioning metabolism (temp, pulse, mental well-being, good energy, etc.). I've begun researching supplements (Thyroid, T3, T4, Pregn, Progest, MB, etc.) but haven't yet determined how you know if you should take them, which ones to take, the dosages, risks, etc.

After my last post here, I explored the idea that barbell weight training might be the reason why I can't gain muscle (and why I have bad love-handles). My theory was that perhaps my body just genetically has an extremely low tolerance for stress, and barbell lifts were enough to tip me into a catabolic/"too much stress" state that was damaging my physique. I can lift the weights to tear the muscle fibers, but my body doesn't have the ability to build muscle tissue beyond the break-even repairs.

I tested this theory by performing only body-weight exercises for the next ~5 months, until late November 2022. Variations of pushups, pull-ups, bodyweight squats, dips, with some dumbell/cable usage just for arms. 4 - 6 days per week. During this period, I did see positive results; measurements for my arms, shoulders, and chest/back came up, albeit frustratingly slowly. At my peak, I was able to do 13 wide-grip pullups in a row, which was a lifetime PR.

Some issues in my personal/professional life popped up at the end of this period, and I had caught Covid or some other illness. I ended up going about 10 weeks without stepping foot in the gym and I melted like a snowman. I lost the entirety of the little muscle I had managed to gain. I actually looked worse than when I started.

I had gotten so frustrated with all of this health stuff and how much it's negatively impacting my life, I decided to just take a few months break and forget about everything. No working out, no reading these forums, no temp measurements, no thinking about diet (except complete PUFA avoidance), no following Peaters on twitter, no health podcasts... nothing. Been a few months since I've taken this step back, but recent events have prompted me to return.

Just measured my temp with a cheap digital thermometer I keep on my desk: 97.2F

 

[DrivesOldTruck]

(this is a copy of the post i made on the thread "exercise the ray peat way", I am posting it in other forums that seem related )

Hate that I missed this when it was originally posted, incredible piece. Will dig into the links you provided!

 

[blackface]

@DrivesOldTruck Thank you for the update. I think that I kinda also have a problem with gaining muscle mass.

Lately I have been reading on here about the low stomach acid problem which a lot of people in here have. And if you have a low stomach acid you can't digest any nutrients effectively and the protein Is not used by your body.

So Im taking a spoon of ACV before every big meal, plus Im taking the HCl supplemebt. I must that I feel better, digestion is also better. Its too soon to report on the muscle gains side but I Will report back.

 

[Sapien]

Hate that I missed this when it was originally posted, incredible piece. Will dig into the links you provided!

By the way I have since changed my mind on the whole "one set" stuff; since without eccentric training there is no "recovery" needed, one can do much more volume.

Mentzer was right about a lot tho7gh; about intensity being the main driver of muscle growth for example, it is now widely accepted and known as "mechanical tension".

and his train to failure reccomendarions: Training to failure is an effective way to effectively recruit high percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers, its known as "henemens size principal"

Lately I have been doing exclusively overcoming isometrics, as they avoid muscle damage and allow one to exert all out effort. Also you don't have to worry about the strength curve stuff I mentioned.
Very similar to how the "Great Gama" person i mentioned would train.

(Also the part I quoted from nautilus journal was wrong about strength curves; nautilus equipment has sincd changed to match the actual strength curve which is lower at the beginning and end but highest in the middle. No one noticed it was wrong originally because the momentum would allow one to compensate for the muscle being weaker at the end)

 

[Peater]

Fascinating thread and replies. If it helps @DrivesOldTruck I stuggle with similar. I haven't trained in years due to joint issues which I am working on again currently.