How Important Is Silica In The Formation Of Gelatin/collagen ?

uuy8778yyi

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are gelatin/collagen the same thing ?

and if so, how important is the mineral silica in their formation ?
 

SaltGirl

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Not sure about the importance of each in relation, but I have been taking silica and it has helped a lot of stomach issues for me, plus my nails became that much whiter. I haven't been on it long enough to talk about other benefits though.
 

tara

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I think gelatin=cooked collagen. Don't know about silica.
 

uuy8778yyi

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the supplement silica is associated with cancer ?

even biosil, etc ?
 

Sheila

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Dear uuy87778yyi,
Organic silica is thought to promote collagen synthesis, here is a reasonable review:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3546016/

This may, or may not be a good idea according to context. For example from: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ca ... rone.shtml

"The extracellular medium changes during the development of a tumor. Irritated hypoxic cells, and estrogen-stimulated cells, increase their production of collagen, and the increase of collagen interferes with normal cell functions. Progesterone reduces the formation of collagen, and probably contributes to its removal."

Inorganic silica (SiO2 aka sand) is irritating and potentially disease promoting depending on intake route and context. It is found as an excipient and best avoided. There have been other discussions on this here.

Sheila
 

YuraCZ

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synthetic silica is bad. ORGANIC silica for example from horsetail is very good for hair, nails, skin etc.. Same for example with organic copper from the liver with all the cofactors vs copper pan, pipe.. Just because it has same name. It doesnt mean that it works the same in the body...
 

drk

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I saw a recent post that stated that Ray Peat thought silicon was not necessary or dangerous.
Here two functions of silicon I am aware of.

First it is a co-factor in the function of the enzyme prolyl hydroxylase which in involved in collagen formation.

As well, silicon is bound in a repetetive pattern to the glycosaminoglycan part of connective tissue.
Here is an exerpt from this study A bound form of silicon in glycosaminoglycans and polyuronides. - PubMed - NCBI
330-554 ppm of bound Si were detected in purified hyaluronic acid from umbilical cord, chondroitin 4-sulfate, dermatan sulfate, and heparan sulfate. These amounts correspond to 1 atom of Si per 50,000-85,000 molecular weight or 130-280 repeating units.
 

drk

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I hear you. There are numerous factors in connective tissue / collagen production an repair. Collagen production involves the hydroxylation of lysine on one precollagen strand and hydroxylation of proline on another before they are bound together to make collagen. The process also requires the cofactors vitamin C, iron an silicon. In one study I saw, vitamin C and iron made the biggest difference. In addition to "raw material" to make collagen, you also need sufficient metabolic energy, good circulation and maybe other factors too. For keratin production, I believe vitamin A is necessary.

5g i think is excessive and if silicon will do the trick 10mg or several tens of mg but no need for higher dosages. I think that orthosilicic acid is a good way to go, especially when dissolved in some water. To much gels easily an more poorly absorbed.

What were you taking horsetail for?
 

paymanz

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Don't forget manganese and taurine in your list for connective tissue health.
 

paymanz

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Manganese is essential in connective tissue health,I think no very much in collagen synthesis but for GAGs and other components of extracellular matrix like glycopeotein.also necessary for osteocalcin production.
It has interaction with biotin...

Taurine,I have seen it shown to stimulate connective tissue synthes .I think I posted it on forum.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/03008207.2015.1026437
Chondroprotective Effects of Taurine in Primary Cultures of Human Articular Chondrocytes

Other things are also important,biotin ,b6,b5, vitamin k/A.
 
Last edited:

starstern

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synthetic silica is bad. ORGANIC silica for example from horsetail is very good for hair, nails, skin etc.. Same for example with organic copper from the liver with all the cofactors vs copper pan, pipe.. Just because it has same name. It doesnt mean that it works the same in the body...

Does oats have as sigh silica as indian pale ale beer ?
and how about Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth in compare ?
can i manage to get my full requirement from food sources without supplementation ?
are there any clearhouse to achieve info on these ?
 

Amazoniac

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Trace Elements in Human et Animal Nutrition (vol. 2) - Walter Mertz

"Microscopic particles of silica (phytoliths) have been demonstrated in the lymph nodes and urinary calculi of sheep. Phytoliths are minute bodies of amorphous silica (opal) that are formed within a great variety of plants. Many of the smaller phytoliths are able to pass the intestinal barrier of animals, including humans, and enter the lymphatic and blood vascular systems, thus to be distributed throughout the body. In addition to possibly producing pathological effects, the presence of phytoliths throughout many tissues, especially lungs, liver, lymph nodes, and spleen, makes it difficult to determine the amount of silicon in animal tissues that is actually contributing to physiological mechanisms. The gut wall of humans is also permeable to particles the size of diatoms. Volkenheimer (86) showed that diatomaceous of the earths particles are absorbed through the intact intestinal mucosa, pass through the lymphatic and circulatory systems, and reach other tissues supplied by arterial blood via the alveolar region of the lung. Examination of human organs has revealed diatoms in lungs, liver, and kidneys, as a consequence of their presence in atmospheric dust and their movement from the respiratory tract. The capacity of these particles to travel in the blood and to penetrate membranes, including the placenta, is illustrated further by their presence in the organs of stillborn and premature infants (39)."

"All chicks on silicon-deficient diets, regardless of the level of dietary vitamin D, had gross abnormalities of skull architecture, and furthermore, the silicon-deficient skulls showed considerably less collagen at each vitamin D level. As in the previous study, the bone matrix of the silicon-deficient chicks totally lacked the normal striated trabecular pattern of the control chicks. In the rachitic groups of chicks, the appearance of the bone matrix was quite different from the groups receiving adequate vitamin D, being considerably less calcified and more transparent, enabling the cells and underlying structure to be seen more easily. The deficient chicks appeared to have a marked reduction in the number of osteoblasts compared to the controls. In these two studies, the major effect of silicon appears to be on the collagen content of the connective tissue matrix, and this is independent of vitamin D."

"In addition to bone, silicon-deficiency is manifested by abnormalities involving articular cartilage and connective tissue (18). Chicks in the silicon-deficient group had thinner legs and smaller combs in proportion to their size. Long-bone tibial joints were markedly smaller and the bones contained 3 4 - 3 5% less water than those of silicon-supplemented chicks. The deficient chicks also revealed a significantly lower hexosamine content in their articular cartilage. In ****'s comb also, a smaller amount of connective tissue, a lower total percentage of hexosamines and a lower silicon content were found in the silicon-deficient group. These findings point clearly to an involvement of silicon in glycosaminoglycan formation in cartilage and connective tissue.
Long-bone abnormalities similar to those reported above have been produced in silicon-deficient chicks using a semisynthetic diet containing a natural protein in place of crystalline amino acids used in the earlier studies, again demonstrating (22) a requirement for silicon in articular cartilage formation. Tibia from silicon-deficient chicks had significantly less glycosaminoglycans and collagen, the difference being greater for glycosaminoglycans than collagen. Tibia from silicon-deficient chicks also showed rather marked pathological changes, the most profound being demonstrated in epiphyseal cartilage. The disturbed epiphyseal cartilage sequences resulted in defective endochondral bone growth, indicating that silicon is involved in a metabolic chain of events required for normal growth of bone."

"Silicon's primary effect in bone and cartilage appears to be on formation of the matrix, although silicon may participate in the mineralization process itself. The above in vivo studies have shown silicon to be involved in both collagen and glycosaminoglycan formation. These in vivo findings have been corroborated in studies of bone (19) and cartilage (23) in tissue culture, where it was demonstrated that silicon has a marked effect on growth, which appeared to be mainly due to an increase in collagen content. Silicon was also shown to be required for formation of glycosaminoglycans, the other major polymeric molecule of the matrix.
An interaction between silicon and ascorbate has also been shown in cartilage matrix (28). Silicon's greatest effect was on hexosamine content in the presence of ascorbate. Furthermore, silicon and ascorbate interacted to give maximal production of hexosamines. Silicon also appeared to increase hydroxyproline, total protein, and noncollagenous protein beyond the effects of ascorbate.
An effect of silicon on formation of extracellular cartilage matrix components by connective tissue cells has also been demonstrated (27), in chondrocytes isolated from chick epiphyses cultured under silicon-low and silicon-supplemented conditions. The major effect of silicon appeared to be on collagen. Silicon also had a pronounced stimulatory effect on matrix polysaccharides. Silicon's effect on collagen and glycosaminoglycan formation was not due to cellular proliferation but to some system in the cell that participates in their formation.
Additional support for silicon's metabolic role in connective tissue at the cellular level is provided by evidence of its presence in connective tissue cells (17). X-Ray microanalysis of active growth areas in young bone and isolated osteoblasts show silicon to a be a major ion of osteogenic cells, the amounts of silicon being in the same range as that of calcium, phosphorus, and magnesium. Moreover, silicon appeared to be especially high in the metabolically active state of the cell, the osteoblast. Clear evidence that silicon occurs in the osteoblast and is localized in the mitochondria adds strong support to the proposition that silicon is required for connective tissue matrix formation."
 

Luann

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Cool topic. I've lost some weight on the Peat protocol and my skin isn't doing a very good job of catching up, i,e. my face is kind of droopy and worried looking. I tried stuff for connective tissue regrowth, like copper, vitamin C from orange juice, and glycine. Might start eating bananas or other high silica foods, in moderation, see if I can get this skin thing taken care of. Thanks for posting.
 

Amazoniac

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Cool topic. I've lost some weight on the Peat protocol and my skin isn't doing a very good job of catching up, i,e. my face is kind of droopy and worried looking. I tried stuff for connective tissue regrowth, like copper, vitamin C from orange juice, and glycine. Might start eating bananas or other high silica foods, in moderation, see if I can get this skin thing taken care of. Thanks for posting.
Guru, you can look up nutrients involved in bone modeling, they can be useful. Here's an example:
Essential Nutrients for Bone Health and a Review of their Availability in the Average North American Diet

Also making sure you're not deficient in molybdenum. There are some sulfated compounds that can become compromised when it's scarce. Too much might affect copper and be productive of the counters.
https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/3391573_B_Bibr
 

lvysaur

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I don't see why RPers would drink IPAs. Hops is the most estrogenic plant you can think of, concentrated to 3x its amount in normal beers.

Normally I can understand the taste argument, but that doesn't seem to work too well for IPAs either.
 
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