Hidden ingredients present in American milk

[Dr. B]

This is inspired by @haidut and DannyRoddy. Not sure if he has an account on here.

I have been watching these guys weekly podcasts for the last few months as well as Jay Feldman Wellness.

One important topic that came up in one of the podcasts with Peat was how Georgi tested some organic milk products and found traces of carrageenan and silica. Ray mentioned its important to get that information out.

I did not find any brands admit to using carrageenan or silica in their milk, however I checked with several large scale organic milk brands in the US, and, the way things work here is if vitamins A and D are added to any milk product, the ingredients list only needs to state vitamin A and D, not the ingredients present in those vitamins.

It is standard practice for milk with added vitamins to also contain polysorbate 80, propylene glycol, and sunflower oil. I am not sure about polyethylene glycol, carrageenan, and silica, but maybe some of the cheaper brands use those ingredients. polysorbate 80 and propylene glycol are approved for usage in organic milk products, and they are basically never listed on the label. they are added as preservatives for the vitamin mixes as well as to help them properly blend into the milk.

it is usually difficult to find raw milk, and even more so to find raw milk you know is organically produced, clean etc. this means in the US the only way to avoid these filler ingredients is to specifically purchase a whole milk without any added vitamin A or D. either of those added means you are getting fillers, and reduced fat/skim milks are required to have vitamins added.

I am not sure how this works as far as whey protein powder, low/fat free greek yogurts, ice creams, and cheeses. Hopefully those products do not need to be sourced from vitamin fortified milk. I think others on here also mentioned yogurt and cheese can be troublesome these days due to the processes used to make them and due to cheese being made with microbial enzymes instead of animal rennet.

 

[solomon]

bump

 

[dukesbobby777]

It’s not all that difficult finding raw milk if you use google.

 

[Dr. B]

It’s not all that difficult finding raw milk if you use google.

Yes, I have looked into it and it seems risky as you dont know how they are raising/treating the cows. For instance they will have you sign a contract where you agree not to hold them responsible for any illness or death occurring as a result of drinking the raw milk. I think some of the farms could take advantage of a contract like that. Additionally I keep hearing from these farms that their milk and farming practices are organic/beyond organic, but that they are not USDA certified organic because they can't afford the certification for it. I think if you have access to USDA certified organic, 100% grass fed, 100% A2, low temperature pasteurized milk that is likely safer than most of the raw milks since the certification can give some sort of assurance that the cows are pesticide, antibiotic and hormone free.
I used to drink regular, non organic whole milk from costco, which has added vitamin D3 in it. I didn't notice any negative symptoms from it, even though I had it daily for years. I have tried raw milk from several farms and most tasted fine and digested fine, yet, one of them after drinking it would literally give me itchy/irritated nipples and an itchy scalp. Estrogenic type symptoms. The only time in my life I have ever experienced itchy/painful nipples and an itchy scalp from anything was from using ginseng 5+years ago, and from using dhea 2 years ago for just 10 days. Other than that, I never get those kind of estrogenic symptoms, not even from eating soy protein/soybean oil/pufa/fish oil/etc. So I have no idea what that particular farm was doing but they were doing something that was causing their milk to cause those symptoms. Even cheap, non organic, and probably corn/soy fed costco/walmart milks dont give estrogenic symptoms. does pasteurizing the milk reduce the hormones in it? Even if thats the case ive had many raw milks and only that one particular farms raw milk gave those symptoms. I'm guessing if theyre not directly treating the cows with hormones, maybe its some estrogenic/toxic cleaners they are using on either the cows teats before milking, or some cleaners used for their plastic milk bottles, which then leech into the milk.

The concern I have is those raw milk farm contracts can provide some leeway for farms to cut corners. In many states they're not technically selling you the milk, they're just giving you free milk from a cow you own and pay monthly maintenance fees for. If you have issues from a grocery store milk you can definitely return the milk and probably get a managers discount/gift card and likely take legal action against that milk company whereas with raw milk you are out of luck unless youre in the states where its legally sold in grocery stores.

Things I personally look out for with milks is the usda organic, 100% Grass fed, 100% A2, and preferably low temp pasteurized. Although im not sure low temp pasteurized is better since its 145 degrees for 30 minutes whereas regular pasteurization is 161 degrees for just 15 seconds. Its normally very difficult to find a milk that is organic, 100% grass fed, as well as 100% A2, and low temp pasteurized. Yet with the raw milk farms, every single farm seemingly lists their milk as A2, 100% grass fed, and organic. Apparently that usda organic certification is not expensive to get, apparently its just a one time fee and you stay certified as long as your farms stay organic?

 

[Lollipop2]

Yes, I have looked into it and it seems risky as you dont know how they are raising/treating the cows. For instance they will have you sign a contract where you agree not to hold them responsible for any illness or death occurring as a result of drinking the raw milk. I think some of the farms could take advantage of a contract like that. Additionally I keep hearing from these farms that their milk and farming practices are organic/beyond organic, but that they are not USDA certified organic because they can't afford the certification for it. I think if you have access to USDA certified organic, 100% grass fed, 100% A2, low temperature pasteurized milk that is likely safer than most of the raw milks since the certification can give some sort of assurance that the cows are pesticide, antibiotic and hormone free.
I used to drink regular, non organic whole milk from costco, which has added vitamin D3 in it. I didn't notice any negative symptoms from it, even though I had it daily for years. I have tried raw milk from several farms and most tasted fine and digested fine, yet, one of them after drinking it would literally give me itchy/irritated nipples and an itchy scalp. Estrogenic type symptoms. The only time in my life I have ever experienced itchy/painful nipples and an itchy scalp from anything was from using ginseng 5+years ago, and from using dhea 2 years ago for just 10 days. Other than that, I never get those kind of estrogenic symptoms, not even from eating soy protein/soybean oil/pufa/fish oil/etc. So I have no idea what that particular farm was doing but they were doing something that was causing their milk to cause those symptoms. Even cheap, non organic, and probably corn/soy fed costco/walmart milks dont give estrogenic symptoms. does pasteurizing the milk reduce the hormones in it? Even if thats the case ive had many raw milks and only that one particular farms raw milk gave those symptoms. I'm guessing if theyre not directly treating the cows with hormones, maybe its some estrogenic/toxic cleaners they are using on either the cows teats before milking, or some cleaners used for their plastic milk bottles, which then leech into the milk.

The concern I have is those raw milk farm contracts can provide some leeway for farms to cut corners. In many states they're not technically selling you the milk, they're just giving you free milk from a cow you own and pay monthly maintenance fees for. If you have issues from a grocery store milk you can definitely return the milk and probably get a managers discount/gift card and likely take legal action against that milk company whereas with raw milk you are out of luck unless youre in the states where its legally sold in grocery stores.

Things I personally look out for with milks is the usda organic, 100% Grass fed, 100% A2, and preferably low temp pasteurized. Although im not sure low temp pasteurized is better since its 145 degrees for 30 minutes whereas regular pasteurization is 161 degrees for just 15 seconds. Its normally very difficult to find a milk that is organic, 100% grass fed, as well as 100% A2, and low temp pasteurized. Yet with the raw milk farms, every single farm seemingly lists their milk as A2, 100% grass fed, and organic. Apparently that usda organic certification is not expensive to get, apparently its just a one time fee and you stay certified as long as your farms stay organic?

I think the trouble is the big national brands - even organic like Horizon Organic etc. I find a more local organic non homogenized milk. Fantastic flavor.

 

[Dr. B]

I think the trouble is the big national brands - even organic like Horizon Organic etc. I find a more local organic non homogenized milk. Fantastic flavor.

organic valley used to offer a usda organic 100% grass fed milk which was either pasteurized or low temp pasteurized however it was not A2 and may not have been low temp pasteurized. they still offer this but only in an ultra pasteurized form.

 

[Lollipop2]

organic valley used to offer a usda organic 100% grass fed milk which was either pasteurized or low temp pasteurized however it was not A2 and may not have been low temp pasteurized. they still offer this but only in an ultra pasteurized form.

They sold out like 10 or 15 years ago to a large player who then cheapened their milk beyond belief. I think this is the case with a lot of the natural organic brands. Maple Hill still seems good.

 

[Dr. B]

They sold out like 10 or 15 years ago to a large player who then cheapened their milk beyond belief. I think this is the case with a lot of the natural organic brands. Maple Hill still seems good.

what was done to their milk

 

[Lollipop2]

what was done to their milk

Exactly what you complained about, additives, went to more factory farm like sources for their milk. Someone wrote an article long back about the sad demise of Horizon Organic milk quality. I have no idea when it was - years ago.

 

[Dr. B]

Exactly what you complained about, additives, went to more factory farm like sources for their milk. Someone wrote an article long back about the sad demise of Horizon Organic milk quality. I have no idea when it was - years ago.

was it horizon or organic valley? organic valley does still have a grassmilk but its ultra pasteurized. no added vitamins, taste is okay

 

[Lollipop2]

was it horizon or organic valley? organic valley does still have a grassmilk but its ultra pasteurized. no added vitamins, taste is okay

Horizon Organic. The Organic Valley grassmilk is still good. I drink it occasionally when my other milk is out.

 

[Dr. B]

Horizon Organic. The Organic Valley grassmilk is still good. I drink it occasionally when my other milk is out.

what brand are you using now. do you think A2 matters

 

[Lollipop2]

what brand are you using now. do you think A2 matters

I haven’t used A2 because the milk I found is working for me. I currently use Super Kolona Organic Non homogenized whole milk.

 

[EchoTango]

Informative post. I sometimes get organic milk with added vitamin D in a plastic carton as a back up, but I imagine if what you say is true, then it probably has those unfortunate additives.

My main source of milk comes from the next state over, but a few local health food stores carry it. It is in a half-gallon glass bottle that i have to return, low temp pastuerized, pastured, non-homogenized but not specified as A2. It tastes delicious, so much better than the organic one in the gallon that is homogenized. This post motivates me to not be lazy enough to settle for the one with added vitamins.

 

[Dr. B]

Informative post. I sometimes get organic milk with added vitamin D in a plastic carton as a back up, but I imagine if what you say is true, then it probably has those unfortunate additives.

My main source of milk comes from the next state over, but a few local health food stores carry it. It is in a half-gallon glass bottle that i have to return, low temp pastuerized, pastured, non-homogenized but not specified as A2. It tastes delicious, so much better than the organic one in the gallon that is homogenized. This post motivates me to not be lazy enough to settle for the one with added vitamins.

which brand is the one youre talking about with the glass bottle?
its probably not A2 but may be a1/a2.
most stores in the US should carry organic valleys grass milk. its 100% grass fed, no additives. the main problems are its homogenized, its not A2, and its ultra pasteurized.
they used to offer two options for grassmilk, one ultra and one was low temp pasteurized and non homogenized. its color was a very golden yellow. basically golden. tasted good and had a big cream layer on top. they discontinued that one, apparently wasnt selling enough and it was probably going to waste quick since the expiry date was 10 days out. the ultra pasteurized one has an expiry 2 months later. but ultra pasteurized is probably better than the added vitamins. im not sure if the pasteurization is more important than getting A2.
it becomes more noticeable if you have a half gallon in a day. the A2, grass fed, organic non homogenized causes no noticeable symptoms. whereas A1 with vitamins, even A1 without vitamins seems tougher to digest and causes some skin irritation and redness on the face

 

[EchoTango]

I do remember the early grassmilk before everything began being ultrapasteurized - good stuff. I'm sure the ultrpastuerized is better than the other with the added vitamins. This is where I get milk now https://jdcountrymilk.com/ I'm not sure if they are near you but they deliver to a pretty wide area for a small dairy. They do use carageenan in the chocolate milk, but I've never tried it. It was sad when the stores near me stopped carrying their cream, but the whole milk has a substantial chunk of cream on top depending on the season. The price is $3.59/ half gallon. A dollar more than the whole gallon of the vitamin fortified organic, and well worth it.

 

[Xemnoraq]

I just emailed my local milk company to ask them about the hidden ingredients in milk, lets wait for their response i am interested to know how they will respond if they will take a defensive stance or a more open approach, whether they will confirm or deny. I'll keep you guys posted when i find an answer, i will also likely reach out to a lot of other milk companies around too so we will see.

 

[Mossy]

I just emailed my local milk company to ask them about the hidden ingredients in milk, lets wait for their response i am interested to know how they will respond if they will take a defensive stance or a more open approach, whether they will confirm or deny. I'll keep you guys posted when i find an answer, i will also likely reach out to a lot of other milk companies around too so we will see.

Should be interesting to hear the responses (if they're willing). What country will you be doing this in?

 

[Xemnoraq]

Should be interesting to hear the responses (if they're willing). What country will you be doing this in?

Im doing this from Canada so i emailed a company called Natrel

 

[Mossy]

Im doing this from Canada so i emailed a company called Natrel

I was hoping your findings would be applicable to US milk, but it seems there are differences:

What is the difference between Canadian and American milk? - Alberta Milk

There are a lot of ways to compare and contrast the differences in milk and industries!

albertamilk.com