Do ice cream, cheese, yogurt , cream and other dairy products come from vitamin fortified milk?

[somuch4food]

you don't seem to get it, the amount of vitamin d and thus the solvent is so miniscule you have absolutely no chance of having any effect from it. You are simply reacting to sub-par milk with god knows what fillers that are entirely unrealted ot the fortification.

I'm not really well versed in homeopathy, but many people swear by it and the amount of active ingredients in homeopathy are even less concentrated than what you get from fortification. You can react to small doses.

 

[rei]

Milk fortification in Canada consists of vitamin D for all milks and also vitamin A for lower fat milks.

I can't get the same milk without fortification, it's illegal. One drop of 400iu of vitamin D in olive oil does the same and so, I can say that it's the fortification that causes the issue.

I did not know there's A vitamin used also. That is presumably used in larger amounts so larger solvents etc. can enter. Still it should be minimal.

But that is besides the point, since you said a drop of 400IU vitamin d in olive oil does the same. That's simply unfathomable. Both since the vitamin amount is miniscule and olive oil is relatively safe.

If this is true and you see effect from the vitmain iself in miniscule doses you must have severe deficiency, and the effect you are seeing is your bodily functions starting back up after being in hibernation. How else can you explain reacting to 400IU ? I doubt you are saying you are reacting to the olive oil.

 

[rei]

I'm not really well versed in homeopathy, but many people swear by it and the amount of active ingredients in homeopathy are even less concentrated than what you get from fortification. You can react to small doses.

If we forget all we know about basic science and are ready to entertain woowoo like homeopathy then of course i could be completely wrong. But let's not go that far yet.

 

[Dr. B]

So, another reason to make your own ice cream.
I used to make our yogurt, but since Peat we've cut back on that. Still even though I buy the only Greek Yogurt without the gums available here, all I can say is glad we don't eat a lot of it now.

I'm thinking about the ice cream machine idea. You are right about the cheese too of course. I'm having a hard time finding cheese made with real rennet too. Most have the synthetic rennet to appease the vegans. And there used to be a cream without gums but I can't find that anymore.

thankfully there are many creams and half & half made without gums and additives. It seems whole milk, and the cream/half n half products are for sure available without added vitamins.
With yogurt, I think Peat also said there is an issue with the way its made nowadays. Certain cultures or enzymes are used that shouldn't be. I haven't looked into yogurt much, so I'm not sure how it was traditionally made compared to the modern methods. And yes the cheese is often made with enzymes, if it lists enzymes, microbial enzymes, vegetable rennet, it likely is allergenic.

You can safely ignore any speculation about negative effect of fortifying milk with vitamin d. The amounts are so miniscule they make no difference, even if it was fortified with d vitamin dissolved in pure linoleic acid.

Any other additives are not fortification, and another issue completely.

Yes, the vitamin D and vitamin A supplements aren't so bad. you can supplement those as a standalone and not experience significant side effects. The problem is the vitamins contain polysorbate 80 and propylene glycol, and sometimes carrageenan and silica. On a gram to gram basis, those filler ingredients are probably much more dangerous than PUFA. PUFA you can maybe tolerate a few grams with not too much issue. those other ingredients are more inflammatory and allergenic. they say theyre in small amounts, approved by fda and all but i think they still cause issues in the small amounts allowed in food and supplements. Also I asked ray about polyethylene glycol or propylene glycol and he sent me some medical examination/record case study where a guy suddenly seemed allergic to every food and medicine product but through trial and error he and the doctors discovered he was actually having an allergic/inflammatory reaction to the polyethylene glycol in the foods/medicines he was using. i think the polyethylene glycol may be much more allergenic than propylene glycol though. the milks with added vitamins need polysorbate 80 as an emulsifier and propylene glycol as a preservative for the vitamin mixture before its added. some of them may have silica as an anti caking agent and carrageenan as the emulsifier. i am not so much concerned with milk itself but i am wondering about the "skim milk" often listed on the labels of ice creams and yogurts. even full fat ice creams many times list skim milk and cream in the ingredients. So I'm wondering if that skim milk used in ice cream/yogurt products is fortified skim milk or non fortified. Im also curious if the fortified vitamins in milk tend to concentrate in the cream or the sugar or the protein portion. for example if the cream is originally sourced from fortified milk, it may have a lot of those vitamins and filler ingredients.

 

[rei]

Yes, the vitamin D and vitamin A supplements aren't so bad. you can supplement those as a standalone and not experience significant side effects. The problem is the vitamins contain polysorbate 80 and propylene glycol, and sometimes carrageenan and silica. On a gram to gram basis, those filler ingredients are probably much more dangerous than PUFA. PUFA you can maybe tolerate a few grams with not too much issue. those other ingredients are more inflammatory and allergenic. they say theyre in small amounts, approved by fda and all but i think they still cause issues in the small amounts allowed in food and supplements. Also I asked ray about polyethylene glycol or propylene glycol and he sent me some medical examination/record case study where a guy suddenly seemed allergic to every food and medicine product but through trial and error he and the doctors discovered he was actually having an allergic/inflammatory reaction to the polyethylene glycol in the foods/medicines he was using. i think the polyethylene glycol may be much more allergenic than propylene glycol though. the milks with added vitamins need polysorbate 80 as an emulsifier and propylene glycol as a preservative for the vitamin mixture before its added. some of them may have silica as an anti caking agent and carrageenan as the emulsifier. i am not so much concerned with milk itself but i am wondering about the "skim milk" often listed on the labels of ice creams and yogurts. even full fat ice creams many times list skim milk and cream in the ingredients. So I'm wondering if that skim milk used in ice cream/yogurt products is fortified skim milk or non fortified. Im also curious if the fortified vitamins in milk tend to concentrate in the cream or the sugar or the protein portion. for example if the cream is originally sourced from fortified milk, it may have a lot of those vitamins and filler ingredients.

Vitamin d is added in microgram amounts. The amount of solvents used is not significant, it's a vanishingly insignificant amount.

What is the amount of vitamin A some milks contain? Still i would think it results in insignificant amounts of solvent.

You compare to pufa. It is measured in grams. These additives are measured in milligrams.

 

[solomon]

Milk fortification in Canada consists of vitamin D for all milks and also vitamin A for lower fat milks.

I can't get the same milk without fortification, it's illegal. One drop of 400iu of vitamin D in olive oil does the same and so, I can say that it's the fortification that causes the issue.

The quantity is not the matter as you already concede with other additives that are present in minute amounts in food. Why would a vitamin be so different when isolated?

I am on the same boat with you. I have tried many available Milk brands which all of them have added vitamin D and vitamin A. None of them sits well on my stomach. Although, I do well with all the plain yogurt with no added ingredients (Astro® Original Balkan Plain 6% 750 g – Astro). Last year (2020), there was UHT milk (from coca-cola campany) that I tolerated well and used that over a year. But since January 2021, even small of it causes me a lot of stomach issue. I think they must have changed the ingredients. Now, I am only left to search for raw milk which seems hopeless here

 

[somuch4food]

If this is true and you see effect from the vitmain iself in miniscule doses you must have severe deficiency, and the effect you are seeing is your bodily functions starting back up after being in hibernation. How else can you explain reacting to 400IU ? I doubt you are saying you are reacting to the olive oil.

That could be right, except that the sun does not have those same effects.

I'm not trying to explain why I react, I'm only sharing my own observations that isolated vitamin D does me no good.

Maybe a higher dose could work if I sticked to it long enough, but I have encountered enough testimonies that validate my observations to simply avoid it as best I can. Mega dosing anything is a recipe to create imbalances in my opinion.

 

[rei]

That could be right, except that the sun does not have those same effects.

I'm not trying to explain why I react, I'm only sharing my own observations that isolated vitamin D does me no good.

Maybe a higher dose could work if I sticked to it long enough, but I have encountered enough testimonies that validate my observations to simply avoid it as best I can. Mega dosing anything is a recipe to create imbalances in my opinion.

Latest research shows you need 10000 IU daily to be in optimal health "summer metabolism" so i would suggest you take that amount for few days and see what happens. I expect diarrhea, lethargy, sugar cravings, sleep. After which you wake up to a summer you never felt.

 

[Dr. B]

That could be right, except that the sun does not have those same effects.

I'm not trying to explain why I react, I'm only sharing my own observations that isolated vitamin D does me no good.

Maybe a higher dose could work if I sticked to it long enough, but I have encountered enough testimonies that validate my observations to simply avoid it as best I can. Mega dosing anything is a recipe to create imbalances in my opinion.

do you only get the reaction from milk or have you also tried taking the vitamin itself? I can easily take vitamin d3 in 5000Iu and higher doses with no ill effect.

Latest research shows you need 10000 IU daily to be in optimal health "summer metabolism" so i would suggest you take that amount for few days and see what happens. I expect diarrhea, lethargy, sugar cravings, sleep. After which you wake up to a summer you never felt.

do you use 10000IU daily? also i think the animal cholecalciferol form is much better and safer than D2, as well as the vegan D3s which are sourced from algae or fungus or something.

 

[Dr. B]

you don't seem to get it, the amount of vitamin d and thus the solvent is so miniscule you have absolutely no chance of having any effect from it. You are simply reacting to sub-par milk with god knows what fillers that are entirely unrealted ot the fortification.

the amount of vitamin d isnt relevant... i have used doses of vitamin A and D in supplements with no ill effect. it is clear the reaction is to the emulsifiers. polysorbate 80 and propylene glycol, and carrageenan are highly inflammatory. you do know the D3 being small doesnt mean the emulsifiers have to be small right? there are many powder supplements where the amount of the filler is greater than the nutrient itself. so it may just be 400Iu D3, but the fillers could be present in higher amount.
different ingredients have different potencies so the other point is there may be a very small amount of filler, but still enough to impact. Note that I drink half gallon milk a day and have tested this on numerous occasions.
you can take two milks, both are certified organic, both are a mix of grass fed/corn fed, and experience effects from one and not the other simply because of the added vitamins and fillers. milk wouldnt, at least it legally shouldnt have any fillers present if theres no added vitamins. the entire process of adding vitamins to fortify the milk is what introduces the filler ingredients.
the FDA has 'safe limits' for food filler ingredients, but this doesnt mean that you wont experience issues at fillers present within those guidelines. if the solvent was just PUFA, and not an allergenic PUFA like soy/peanut/corn, I agree with you that the solvent would be so miniscule you wouldnt notice an effect.
but thats not what were dealing with, were dealing with solvents like polysorbate 80, propylene glycol, and carrageenan, which, unlike PUFA, arent even allowed to be used in large amounts in foods. those ingredients are much more dangerous than PUFA, and have stronger effects than PUFA even at smaller doses. you can get potato chips and have tons of PUFA in those, yet you cannot get potato chips soaked in polysorbate 80 or carrageenan because even the FDA which has very loose standards, still admits those ingredients are bad in the higher doses.
given that those filler ingredients are much more powerful than PUFA in a lower dose I dont see why people cant experience side effects from them. the same claims are made with regards to supplements, yet many people can notice a clear improvement in digestion when they use supplements which do not contain ingredients like carrageenan, magnesium stearate, silica, etc!

 

[rei]

you do know the D3 being small doesnt mean the emulsifiers have to be small right? there are many powder supplements where the amount of the filler is greater than the nutrient itself. so it may just be 400Iu D3, but the fillers could be present in higher amount.
different ingredients have different potencies so the other point is there may be a very small amount of filler, but still enough to impact. Note that I drink half gallon milk a day and have tested this on numerous occasions.
you can take two milks, both are certified organic, both are a mix of grass fed/corn fed, and experience effects from one and not the other simply because of the added vitamins and fillers. milk wouldnt, at least it legally shouldnt have any fillers present if theres no added vitamins. the entire process of adding vitamins to fortify the milk is what introduces the filler ingredients.

Commercially the additives are as small as needed, so the minimal amount able to carry the vitamin a and d are used. It's another thing entirely when making a product for consumer use that goes through multiple hands and sits on the shelf for a long time.

 

[akgrrrl]

the amount of vitamin d isnt relevant... i have used doses of vitamin A and D in supplements with no ill effect. it is clear the reaction is to the emulsifiers. polysorbate 80 and propylene glycol, and carrageenan are highly inflammatory. you do know the D3 being small doesnt mean the emulsifiers have to be small right? there are many powder supplements where the amount of the filler is greater than the nutrient itself. so it may just be 400Iu D3, but the fillers could be present in higher amount.
different ingredients have different potencies so the other point is there may be a very small amount of filler, but still enough to impact. Note that I drink half gallon milk a day and have tested this on numerous occasions.
you can take two milks, both are certified organic, both are a mix of grass fed/corn fed, and experience effects from one and not the other simply because of the added vitamins and fillers. milk wouldnt, at least it legally shouldnt have any fillers present if theres no added vitamins. the entire process of adding vitamins to fortify the milk is what introduces the filler ingredients.
the FDA has 'safe limits' for food filler ingredients, but this doesnt mean that you wont experience issues at fillers present within those guidelines. if the solvent was just PUFA, and not an allergenic PUFA like soy/peanut/corn, I agree with you that the solvent would be so miniscule you wouldnt notice an effect.
but thats not what were dealing with, were dealing with solvents like polysorbate 80, propylene glycol, and carrageenan, which, unlike PUFA, arent even allowed to be used in large amounts in foods. those ingredients are much more dangerous than PUFA, and have stronger effects than PUFA even at smaller doses. you can get potato chips and have tons of PUFA in those, yet you cannot get potato chips soaked in polysorbate 80 or carrageenan because even the FDA which has very loose standards, still admits those ingredients are bad in the higher doses.
given that those filler ingredients are much more powerful than PUFA in a lower dose I dont see why people cant experience side effects from them. the same claims are made with regards to supplements, yet many people can notice a clear improvement in digestion when they use supplements which do not contain ingredients like carrageenan, magnesium stearate, silica, etc!

Thanks bollux for all these good points. It is helpful for me to understand the chems and processes after years observing that awful taste for some milks were not just me and both dog and cat refusals

 

[Birdie]

thankfully there are many creams and half & half made without gums and additives. It seems whole milk, and the cream/half n half products are for sure available without added vitamins.
With yogurt, I think Peat also said there is an issue with the way its made nowadays. Certain cultures or enzymes are used that shouldn't be. I haven't looked into yogurt much, so I'm not sure how it was traditionally made compared to the modern methods. And yes the cheese is often made with enzymes, if it lists enzymes, microbial enzymes, vegetable rennet, it likely is allergenic.



Yes, the vitamin D and vitamin A supplements aren't so bad. you can supplement those as a standalone and not experience significant side effects. The problem is the vitamins contain polysorbate 80 and propylene glycol, and sometimes carrageenan and silica. On a gram to gram basis, those filler ingredients are probably much more dangerous than PUFA. PUFA you can maybe tolerate a few grams with not too much issue. those other ingredients are more inflammatory and allergenic. they say theyre in small amounts, approved by fda and all but i think they still cause issues in the small amounts allowed in food and supplements. Also I asked ray about polyethylene glycol or propylene glycol and he sent me some medical examination/record case study where a guy suddenly seemed allergic to every food and medicine product but through trial and error he and the doctors discovered he was actually having an allergic/inflammatory reaction to the polyethylene glycol in the foods/medicines he was using. i think the polyethylene glycol may be much more allergenic than propylene glycol though. the milks with added vitamins need polysorbate 80 as an emulsifier and propylene glycol as a preservative for the vitamin mixture before its added. some of them may have silica as an anti caking agent and carrageenan as the emulsifier. i am not so much concerned with milk itself but i am wondering about the "skim milk" often listed on the labels of ice creams and yogurts. even full fat ice creams many times list skim milk and cream in the ingredients. So I'm wondering if that skim milk used in ice cream/yogurt products is fortified skim milk or non fortified. Im also curious if the fortified vitamins in milk tend to concentrate in the cream or the sugar or the protein portion. for example if the cream is originally sourced from fortified milk, it may have a lot of those vitamins and filler ingredients.

Many creams without gums? I haven't been able to find cream without gums for about 5 years in three states I've lived in. So, I'm quite sure most ice cream is made with cream that has gums.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Many creams without gums? I haven't been able to find cream without gums for about 5 years in three states I've lived in. So, I'm quite sure most ice cream is made with cream that has gums.

I buy organic raw cream and it does not have any extras in it.

 

[Birdie]

I buy organic raw cream and it does not have any extras in it.

It's wonderful you have that available!

I really appreciate @somuch4food for bring up this dairy product subject. Thank you because I'd not thought about what would be in the cream in my ice cream! And it's pretty obvious they are not using pure cream cuz it's just not the norm. No reason the company would choose to use a hard to get cream. They'd go for the "most cost effective". ie the cheapest... Well, darn.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I'll tell you what the raw cream I buy is thicker than any cream I have bought with the fillers to make them look thick.

 

[Dr. B]

Many creams without gums? I haven't been able to find cream without gums for about 5 years in three states I've lived in. So, I'm quite sure most ice cream is made with cream that has gums.

I think they would have to list those gums but I am not sure. that is another worrisome point. the creams that contain gums list it on the label... so I hope ice creams that contain the ingredient "cream" have any gums in that cream listed on the label...
there has to be some ultra pasteurized creams available. also do you mean just pure cream or "heavy cream"? im not sure about the solid cream but there should be heavy cream available. you may have to look in a place like whole foods. and it may be ultra pasteurized.

It's wonderful you have that available!

I really appreciate @somuch4food for bring up this dairy product subject. Thank you because I'd not thought about what would be in the cream in my ice cream! And it's pretty obvious they are not using pure cream cuz it's just not the norm. No reason the company would choose to use a hard to get cream. They'd go for the "most cost effective". ie the cheapest... Well, darn.

that is the thing thats hard to determine. the skim milk, cream, other ingredients from my understanding, if theyre placed in ice cream or cheese or yogurt they dont have the same silly requirements as a skim milk sold directly to the public and the cream doesnt need to have the same fillers and preservatives. so if its a big company with their own factory and facility, its possible they are able to get skim milk which doesnt have added vitamins and cream which doesnt have fillers. that cream may not be fit to be sold to the public without having gums added in or being pasteurized, but its a hopeful possibility that they do use cream/skim milk without additives since there is additional processing time and cost to add those fillers to the product. I was thinking of heavy cream when you said cream. have you looked at the big organic brands like organic valley, maple hill, etc.

 

[somuch4food]

It's wonderful you have that available!

I really appreciate @somuch4food for bring up this dairy product subject. Thank you because I'd not thought about what would be in the cream in my ice cream! And it's pretty obvious they are not using pure cream cuz it's just not the norm. No reason the company would choose to use a hard to get cream. They'd go for the "most cost effective". ie the cheapest... Well, darn.

Companies do not have the same providers as the consumer. They buy in bulk. Like @Mr.Bollox said, it could very well be that there's no gum if it's not mentioned. I see many products listing gums in parenthesis following the cream ingredient. I'm not sure it's required though so there might be some that still have gums.

 

[Birdie]

I think they would have to list those gums but I am not sure. that is another worrisome point. the creams that contain gums list it on the label... so I hope ice creams that contain the ingredient "cream" have any gums in that cream listed on the label...
there has to be some ultra pasteurized creams available. also do you mean just pure cream or "heavy cream"? im not sure about the solid cream but there should be heavy cream available. you may have to look in a place like whole foods. and it may be ultra pasteurized.



that is the thing thats hard to determine. the skim milk, cream, other ingredients from my understanding, if theyre placed in ice cream or cheese or yogurt they dont have the same silly requirements as a skim milk sold directly to the public and the cream doesnt need to have the same fillers and preservatives. so if its a big company with their own factory and facility, its possible they are able to get skim milk which doesnt have added vitamins and cream which doesnt have fillers. that cream may not be fit to be sold to the public without having gums added in or being pasteurized, but its a hopeful possibility that they do use cream/skim milk without additives since there is additional processing time and cost to add those fillers to the product. I was thinking of heavy cream when you said cream. have you looked at the big organic brands like organic valley, maple hill, etc.

Unfortunately, yes I've looked at those. Organic Valley used to have two heavy creams, one with gums and the other without. I could get the good one at a country store when I lived in the area. But, after a while, they stopped carrying the good one but I could order it from them.

I use Maple Hill milk, but haven't seen the cream where I shop. I use milk in my coffee so that's fine. But I am now highly suspicious of the milk used in my Fresh Market brand ice cream. It lists no gums but I'll bet there is some in the cream and they don't have to list it.

However, all that said, sometimes you have to just choose from the menu. I'm going to just eat less ice cream.

 

[Dr. B]

Unfortunately, yes I've looked at those. Organic Valley used to have two heavy creams, one with gums and the other without. I could get the good one at a country store when I lived in the area. But, after a while, they stopped carrying the good one but I could order it from them.

I use Maple Hill milk, but haven't seen the cream where I shop. I use milk in my coffee so that's fine. But I am now highly suspicious of the milk used in my Fresh Market brand ice cream. It lists no gums but I'll bet there is some in the cream and they don't have to list it.

However, all that said, sometimes you have to just choose from the menu. I'm going to just eat less ice cream.

i also limit ice cream to a pint a week. haagen dazs or something else very clean like some jenis flavors, mcconnells etc or some gelato. however now im unsure of the same thing, the milk or cream used in the ice creams, could possibly be vitamin fortified milk, or cream with gums and they may not need to list them. just like how they only have to list vitamin d3 in the ingredients on a milk bottle, not the polysorbate 80/other ingredients in the vitamin d3, it may be the same with cream, milk, listed on ice creams