Is Collagen As Good As Gelatin?

[wealthofwisdom]

I asked this in a previous thread, but I didn't get a definitive answer. I have multiple containers of Collagen. Like this: Shop Online, Shopping List, Digital Coupons | Sprouts Farmers Market

Would this have all of the same nutritional benefits as Gelatin (that I read about a lot on this forum)?

I ask because it's easier to deal with and I already have 2 containers.

Thanks to anybody who chimes in.

EDIT: And I do know that Collagen is MADE FROM Gelatin. So the origin of how Collagen is made isn't my question. It's if gelatin has any benefits OVER collagen? Thanks :)

 

[james2388]

"Gelatin is simply the cooked form of collagen"
"Collagen hydrolysate (sometimes called hydrolyzed collagen) is gelatin that's been processed more intensively to break up the proteins into smaller bits."
- Google

 

[wealthofwisdom]

"Gelatin is simply the cooked form of collagen"
"Collagen hydrolysate (sometimes called hydrolyzed collagen) is gelatin that's been processed more intensively to break up the proteins into smaller bits."
- Google

Lol, I think you were the same person to comment on my last post? Thank you for that.

This actually cannot be true, by reason of logic. Gelatin IS cooked. So how can "gelatin be the cooked form of collagen"? Sorry, but this doesn't answer my original question, which is - Is there a benefit to gelatin over collagen?

Thanks for being the only one who answers though .

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I found this article, but this is from a paleo perspective: Collagen vs Gelatin: Is one better? [How to Pick] | HumanN

 

[Aymen]

Gelatin, stress, longevity

 

[jb116]

Lol, I think you were the same person to comment on my last post? Thank you for that.

This actually cannot be true, by reason of logic. Gelatin IS cooked. So how can "gelatin be the cooked form of collagen"? Sorry, but this doesn't answer my original question, which is - Is there a benefit to gelatin over collagen?

Thanks for being the only one who answers though .

Yes any form of collagen that is broken/cooked down into a gelatinous state is gelatin. That is why gelatin can be and is a cooked form of collagen. You are repeating the correct logic you think is faulty.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Hey guys, thank you both for answering. However, my question isn't about if collagen is made from gelatin. My question is:

Is there a benefit to eating gelatin over collagen? So far, nobody has answered that.

To put it more succinctly:

Is something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Protein-Esse...&keywords=gelatin&qid=1593896177&s=hpc&sr=1-5

more beneficial than this: Shop Online, Shopping List, Digital Coupons | Sprouts Farmers Market

While they are similar, they are not the same substance, or they would have the same name. So clearly there are differences.

My question is: in the Ray Peat world, are those differences significant enough to go out and buy gelatin, or will I get the same benefits from taking collagen? I only see gelatin spoken about in this forum, never "collagen".

For example, I constantly see mentions of eating gelatin along with your muscle meats, to balance out the protein. Would the same positive effect be had by eating collagen along with my muscle meats?

[PLEASE don't write back arguing about the semantics. My only question is: Is there a benefit to eating gelatin over collagen? ]

Thank you!

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Ok I finally did find another post about this (with way less arguing over semantics).
Collagen Hydrolysate Vs. Gelatin

And it turns out that RP in fact does deem gelatin to be healthier than "“predigested” hydrolized protein"
Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

Despite research that clearly showed that adults assimilate whole proteins more effectively than free amino acids, much of the public has been led to believe that “predigested” hydrolized protein and manufactured free amino acids are more easily assimilated than real proteins, and that they are not toxic. Even if free amino acids could be produced industrially without introducing toxins and allergens, they wouldn't be appropriate for nutritional use.

Interesting.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Looks like some people do indeed have trouble with hydrolized collagen over gelatin...

I was using protein powders there for a quite a while, and there is a huge difference between between a hydrolyzed protein and otherwise.

A protein can be a long chain of amino acids. Hydrolyzing can break the protein down into just several aminos, making a peptide of, say, three aminos. The length and combination of the aminos in the peptide have a large bearing on the bioactivity of the peptide. To illustrate: free aminos absorb much faster than undenatured proteins. But peptides absorb even faster than aminos.

So there is a big difference in the original form of the protein, particularly with hydrolysation. Additionally, a protein can be hydrolyzed to varying lengths, they aren't all a 3-amino peptide, some are longer: di-peptides, tri-peptides. Each behaving differently in the process of absorption and subsequent biological effects in the bloodstream. Lactoferrin, for example, is a full protein that, when absorbed as is, undigested, has many immune-boosting effects in the body. So proteins are absorbed as full proteins, and at every stage down to free aminos.

I've taken hydrolyzed whey and developed what I think was protein toxicity in about 10 days, with about 30-50g of powder per day. Anytime I ate protein for months afterward, I felt pretty bad (my take at the time was I needed carbs to up the latent carb:protein ratio...) So i would recommend not taking a whole lot of hydrolyzed protein because it fully absorbs in the upper intestine within minutes of drinking it; protein is typically digested rather slowly over the course of hours. The 30g of protein in a medium steak may release less than 10g per hour, so a fraction of a gram per minute; with large amounts of hydrolyzed you can flood your body with 30g all into your bloodstream instantly.

I registered for this site to see if anyone had any more input into this question! I have 5 tubs of Great Lakes hydrolyzed gelatin (which I stopped taking after my hydrolyzed whey scare), and I'm wondering if anybody knows whether longer-chain gelatin proteins are part of what makes gelatin healing... or if hydrolyzed is just fine. I see the danger of large amounts of hyper-rapidly absorbing protein (though I'm not too worried about the safety of small amounts), and the fact that longer protein molecules are bioactive. So my question is whether hydrolyzed collagen is just as effective as the non-hydrolyzed.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Then again, it looks like some people tolerate hydrolyzed collagen better than non-hydrolyzed gelatin...

@Travis B: I haven't had any side effects with hydrolyzed gelatin after more than a year of use. I'm not sure if I take as much as 30g at a time, though. However, I have had side effects from the non-hydrolyzed gelatin including severe acne and constipation. It could be due to undigested gelatin feeding bacteria. So for the non-hydrolyzed, I am more careful to use small doses, maybe 10g max at a time.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I don't think there is a huge difference, some people have better digestion with one or the other. It can be useful to try both and see which causes the least digestive distress.

And it was @Tarmander who provided the most helpful response. Thanks from the future, Tarmander :)

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Also very interesting...did not know this!

Collagen is stimulating, you need very small doses less than a spoonful.

It's uplifting and kicks the serotonin/tryptophan out of they way real quick. To much is stimulating and aggravating.

Gelatin is sedating and cortisol lowering slow digesting

 

[wealthofwisdom]

Apparently both gelatin and collagen can be toxic to some people...

Neurologist Dr. Blaylock has spent 30 years studying glutamate and says it is best to stay away from gelatin if it effects you negatively. You need glutamate but not much of it. If you will notice Great Lakes says it has no MSG in it which is good but the imbalance of aspartate and arginine and glutamic acid is bad news. For some, gelatin and collagen can be an unbearable excitotoxin. Excitotoxins can lead to headaches and insomnia as well as more dire health issues. Excitatoxins in the form of MSG, aspartate, natural flavors,hydrolyzed protein, carageenen and many other additives as well as gelatin and collagen are something to try to stay away from especially if you get headaches and/or insomnia.

 

[Minimal]

I used to do gelatin before I discovered collagen. No way would I go back to the hassle of gelatin.

They are both highly processed industrial foods, surely neither is ideal, but on convenience collagen trumps gelatin any day.

The fast absorbtion should not be an issue if you consume it WITH other proteins, as you absolutely should. Gelatine/collagen is not to be consumed as a standalone protein source, as it is an incomplete ptotein and will cause protein deficiency symptoms.

 

[wealthofwisdom]

I used to do gelatin before I discovered collagen. No way would I go back to the hassle of gelatin.

They are both highly processed industrial foods, surely neither is ideal, but on convenience collagen trumps gelatin any day.

The fast absorbtion should not be an issue if you consume it WITH other proteins, as you absolutely should. Gelatine/collagen is not to be consumed as a standalone protein source, as it is an incomplete ptotein and will cause protein deficiency symptoms.

Thanks Minimal. Yes, actually the only time I use it is to "supplement" when I eat meat, as I've read that muscle meat isn't fully balanced by itself.

I agree with you that collagen is WAY more convenient (tasteless, odorless, doesn't even affect the consistency of my coffee) which is why I was hoping to get the same benefits from it, as from powdered gelatin...which to me was gross tasting and a hassle to deal with, too.

I'm sure a gelatinous bone broth would be better than both, but I don't always have time to make that.

Looks like it's a very individual thing, who tolerates what. I guess I just need to pay close attention to myself to see how I react, and keep an eye out for the other negative side effects I've read about.

 

[Matt C]

Chris Masterjohn has a podcast you can find if you google it talking about the benefits of glycine. he mentions that he believes Hydrolysed collagen is the best form of glycine...this mostly has to do with the absorption of glycine

He also mention that pure glycine powder is probably the worst form out of collagen, gelatin and glycine powder.

I have all forms but i only really use collagen and gelatin now. Gelatin in smoothies and collagen in pretty much everything else.