Is Collagen As Good As Gelatin?

Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
I asked this in a previous thread, but I didn't get a definitive answer. I have multiple containers of Collagen. Like this: Shop Online, Shopping List, Digital Coupons | Sprouts Farmers Market

Would this have all of the same nutritional benefits as Gelatin (that I read about a lot on this forum)?

I ask because it's easier to deal with and I already have 2 containers.

Thanks to anybody who chimes in.

EDIT: And I do know that Collagen is MADE FROM Gelatin. So the origin of how Collagen is made isn't my question. It's if gelatin has any benefits OVER collagen? Thanks :)
 
Last edited:
J

james2388

Guest
"Gelatin is simply the cooked form of collagen"
"Collagen hydrolysate (sometimes called hydrolyzed collagen) is gelatin that's been processed more intensively to break up the proteins into smaller bits."
- Google
 

wealthofwisdom

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
"Gelatin is simply the cooked form of collagen"
"Collagen hydrolysate (sometimes called hydrolyzed collagen) is gelatin that's been processed more intensively to break up the proteins into smaller bits."
- Google

Lol, I think you were the same person to comment on my last post? Thank you for that.

This actually cannot be true, by reason of logic. Gelatin IS cooked. So how can "gelatin be the cooked form of collagen"? Sorry, but this doesn't answer my original question, which is - Is there a benefit to gelatin over collagen?

Thanks for being the only one who answers though :hilarious:.
 
J

jb116

Guest
Lol, I think you were the same person to comment on my last post? Thank you for that.

This actually cannot be true, by reason of logic. Gelatin IS cooked. So how can "gelatin be the cooked form of collagen"? Sorry, but this doesn't answer my original question, which is - Is there a benefit to gelatin over collagen?

Thanks for being the only one who answers though :hilarious:.
Yes any form of collagen that is broken/cooked down into a gelatinous state is gelatin. That is why gelatin can be and is a cooked form of collagen. You are repeating the correct logic you think is faulty.
 

wealthofwisdom

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
Hey guys, thank you both for answering. However, my question isn't about if collagen is made from gelatin. My question is:

Is there a benefit to eating gelatin over collagen? So far, nobody has answered that.

To put it more succinctly:

Is something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Protein-Esse...&keywords=gelatin&qid=1593896177&s=hpc&sr=1-5

more beneficial than this: Shop Online, Shopping List, Digital Coupons | Sprouts Farmers Market

While they are similar, they are not the same substance, or they would have the same name. So clearly there are differences.

My question is: in the Ray Peat world, are those differences significant enough to go out and buy gelatin, or will I get the same benefits from taking collagen? I only see gelatin spoken about in this forum, never "collagen".

For example, I constantly see mentions of eating gelatin along with your muscle meats, to balance out the protein. Would the same positive effect be had by eating collagen along with my muscle meats?

[PLEASE don't write back arguing about the semantics. My only question is: Is there a benefit to eating gelatin over collagen? ]

Thank you!
 

wealthofwisdom

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
Ok I finally did find another post about this (with way less arguing over semantics).
Collagen Hydrolysate Vs. Gelatin

And it turns out that RP in fact does deem gelatin to be healthier than "“predigested” hydrolized protein"
Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging

Despite research that clearly showed that adults assimilate whole proteins more effectively than free amino acids, much of the public has been led to believe that “predigested” hydrolized protein and manufactured free amino acids are more easily assimilated than real proteins, and that they are not toxic. Even if free amino acids could be produced industrially without introducing toxins and allergens, they wouldn't be appropriate for nutritional use.

Interesting.
 
Last edited:

wealthofwisdom

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
Looks like some people do indeed have trouble with hydrolized collagen over gelatin...

I was using protein powders there for a quite a while, and there is a huge difference between between a hydrolyzed protein and otherwise.

A protein can be a long chain of amino acids. Hydrolyzing can break the protein down into just several aminos, making a peptide of, say, three aminos. The length and combination of the aminos in the peptide have a large bearing on the bioactivity of the peptide. To illustrate: free aminos absorb much faster than undenatured proteins. But peptides absorb even faster than aminos.

So there is a big difference in the original form of the protein, particularly with hydrolysation. Additionally, a protein can be hydrolyzed to varying lengths, they aren't all a 3-amino peptide, some are longer: di-peptides, tri-peptides. Each behaving differently in the process of absorption and subsequent biological effects in the bloodstream. Lactoferrin, for example, is a full protein that, when absorbed as is, undigested, has many immune-boosting effects in the body. So proteins are absorbed as full proteins, and at every stage down to free aminos.

I've taken hydrolyzed whey and developed what I think was protein toxicity in about 10 days, with about 30-50g of powder per day. Anytime I ate protein for months afterward, I felt pretty bad (my take at the time was I needed carbs to up the latent carb:protein ratio...) So i would recommend not taking a whole lot of hydrolyzed protein because it fully absorbs in the upper intestine within minutes of drinking it; protein is typically digested rather slowly over the course of hours. The 30g of protein in a medium steak may release less than 10g per hour, so a fraction of a gram per minute; with large amounts of hydrolyzed you can flood your body with 30g all into your bloodstream instantly.

I registered for this site to see if anyone had any more input into this question! I have 5 tubs of Great Lakes hydrolyzed gelatin (which I stopped taking after my hydrolyzed whey scare), and I'm wondering if anybody knows whether longer-chain gelatin proteins are part of what makes gelatin healing... or if hydrolyzed is just fine. I see the danger of large amounts of hyper-rapidly absorbing protein (though I'm not too worried about the safety of small amounts), and the fact that longer protein molecules are bioactive. So my question is whether hydrolyzed collagen is just as effective as the non-hydrolyzed.
 

wealthofwisdom

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
Then again, it looks like some people tolerate hydrolyzed collagen better than non-hydrolyzed gelatin...

@Travis B: I haven't had any side effects with hydrolyzed gelatin after more than a year of use. I'm not sure if I take as much as 30g at a time, though. However, I have had side effects from the non-hydrolyzed gelatin including severe acne and constipation. It could be due to undigested gelatin feeding bacteria. So for the non-hydrolyzed, I am more careful to use small doses, maybe 10g max at a time.
 

wealthofwisdom

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
I don't think there is a huge difference, some people have better digestion with one or the other. It can be useful to try both and see which causes the least digestive distress.

And it was @Tarmander who provided the most helpful response. Thanks from the future, Tarmander :)
 

wealthofwisdom

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
Also very interesting...did not know this!

Collagen is stimulating, you need very small doses less than a spoonful.

It's uplifting and kicks the serotonin/tryptophan out of they way real quick. To much is stimulating and aggravating.

Gelatin is sedating and cortisol lowering slow digesting
 

wealthofwisdom

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
Apparently both gelatin and collagen can be toxic to some people...

Neurologist Dr. Blaylock has spent 30 years studying glutamate and says it is best to stay away from gelatin if it effects you negatively. You need glutamate but not much of it. If you will notice Great Lakes says it has no MSG in it which is good but the imbalance of aspartate and arginine and glutamic acid is bad news. For some, gelatin and collagen can be an unbearable excitotoxin. Excitotoxins can lead to headaches and insomnia as well as more dire health issues. Excitatoxins in the form of MSG, aspartate, natural flavors,hydrolyzed protein, carageenen and many other additives as well as gelatin and collagen are something to try to stay away from especially if you get headaches and/or insomnia.
 

Minimal

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2020
Messages
25
I used to do gelatin before I discovered collagen. No way would I go back to the hassle of gelatin.

They are both highly processed industrial foods, surely neither is ideal, but on convenience collagen trumps gelatin any day.

The fast absorbtion should not be an issue if you consume it WITH other proteins, as you absolutely should. Gelatine/collagen is not to be consumed as a standalone protein source, as it is an incomplete ptotein and will cause protein deficiency symptoms.
 

wealthofwisdom

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
165
I used to do gelatin before I discovered collagen. No way would I go back to the hassle of gelatin.

They are both highly processed industrial foods, surely neither is ideal, but on convenience collagen trumps gelatin any day.

The fast absorbtion should not be an issue if you consume it WITH other proteins, as you absolutely should. Gelatine/collagen is not to be consumed as a standalone protein source, as it is an incomplete ptotein and will cause protein deficiency symptoms.

Thanks Minimal. Yes, actually the only time I use it is to "supplement" when I eat meat, as I've read that muscle meat isn't fully balanced by itself.

I agree with you that collagen is WAY more convenient (tasteless, odorless, doesn't even affect the consistency of my coffee) which is why I was hoping to get the same benefits from it, as from powdered gelatin...which to me was gross tasting and a hassle to deal with, too.

I'm sure a gelatinous bone broth would be better than both, but I don't always have time to make that.

Looks like it's a very individual thing, who tolerates what. I guess I just need to pay close attention to myself to see how I react, and keep an eye out for the other negative side effects I've read about.
 

Matt C

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
104
Location
Australia
Chris Masterjohn has a podcast you can find if you google it talking about the benefits of glycine. he mentions that he believes Hydrolysed collagen is the best form of glycine...this mostly has to do with the absorption of glycine

He also mention that pure glycine powder is probably the worst form out of collagen, gelatin and glycine powder.

I have all forms but i only really use collagen and gelatin now. Gelatin in smoothies and collagen in pretty much everything else.
 
Last edited:
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
R Low-dose copper with glycine and proline or gelatin for collagen? Ask For Help or Advice 2
wealthofwisdom Collagen Vs Gelatin? Diet 2
James Myatt Hydrolised Collagen/gelatin Allergic Response Ask For Help or Advice 3
Hans Collagen/gelatin Aids In Muscle Growth And Fat Loss Blogs 7
K Collagen Or Gelatin Ask For Help or Advice 4
RayPeatFan777 Ground Beef For Gelatin/collagen Gelatin 5
G I Wrongly Brought Collagen As Gelatin, Is It The Same? Meat, Organ Meat, Gelatin, Seafood 4
Philomath Z!NT Gelatin/Collagen Hydrolysate - Anyone Use This? Suppliers 5
H GELATIN/COLLAGEN (ASPARTIC ACID AND GLUTAMIC ACID) Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 3
ReneeAnn *Why* Does Gelatin And Collagen Give Me A Headache And Insomnia? Eyes, Ears, Nose and Headaches/Migraines 51
D Bad Reaction To Hydrolyzed Collagen/Gelatin (great Lakes And Custom Collagen) Gelatin 13
Saracatt Gelatin vs. Collagen Broth, Stocks 9
uuy8778yyi How Important Is Silica In The Formation Of Gelatin/collagen ? Minerals 23
B Supplemental great lakes gelatin - does collagen hydrolysate taste any better? Gelatin 1
J Collagen Hydrolysate Vs. Gelatin Gelatin 37
P Collagen Gelatin and Cravings Diet 13
JanP Collagen Disorder Is Ruining My Family's Life. Help Me Break The Curse Ask For Help or Advice 12
H Collagen Scum And Product Quality Supplements 11
C How To Clear Excess Collagen From Scalp? Ask For Help or Advice 0
J Is It Okay To Take A Collagen Supplement Alongside Magnesium Glycinate? Magnesium 3
B Anti-Peat Collagen Supplements Are TOXIC WASTE PRODUCTS Debate - Anti-Peat 22
ScurveDream Loose Skin Issues: Collagen, Skin Cells, Elastin, Hormones? Any Other Theories? Ask For Help or Advice 11
S Am I Reading Ray Peat Correctly, Collagen Buildup Causes Aging Sking? Skin 8
I Topical Retinoids - Do They Really Increase Collagen Production? Skin 7
L What Are Some More Things That Lower Collagen Production? Metabolism 1
L What Are Some More Things That Lower Collagen Production? Metabolism 0
berk How Do You Know How Much Collagen You Consume? Diet 0
postman Does Collagen Have Copper? Gelatin 2
Adrenaline Lidocaine Inhibits Collagen Accumulation (Fibrosis) Scientific Studies 0
A The Fruit -fructose Dillema Regarding Collagen ? Health 14
paulwalkerrip Collagen In The NYT Articles 0
C Great Lakes Collagen Vs. Zint Collagen Gelatin 3
S Alternative To Great Lakes Collagen In The UK Gelatin 8
livesimply Great Lakes Bone Collagen Hydrolysate Supplements 1
Elchapchapchapo Bone Broth + Collagen + Optional Aspirin Nighttime Drink Recipes 2
Dan Wich Trial Of Hydrolyzed Collagen Supplementation For Skin Quality Scientific Studies 3
N Type II Collagen Or Type I For Serotonin Reduction? Cortisol, Serotonin, Histamine 12
M Collagen Hydrolysate Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 6
A Caffeine Inhibits Collagen Sysnthesis Ask For Help or Advice 3
johnwester130 The Linus Pauling Collagen Drink That Tastes Good Recipes 22
K Collagen Synthesis Health 2
A BulletProof Collagen Weird Symptoms? Ask For Help or Advice 0
ecstatichamster Aspirin With Niacinamide Baking Soda And Collagen Aspirin 3
R Collagen Supplements 8
A Hydrolyzed Collagen Providing Significant Energy? Diet, Recipes 3
R Cooking With Collagen Hydrolysate Gelatin 1
L Collagen May Inhibit Weight Gain In Menopause Gelatin 1
P Excess Linoleic Acid Increases Collagen I/III Ratio And “Stiffens” The Heart Muscle Following High F Articles & Scientific Studies 1
Bahaa El wazzan Collagen Is Glycine? Diet 0
ecstatichamster Collagen Contains A Lot Of Arginine Protein 11

Similar threads

Top