Excess Copper

[pone]

I have no answers for you pone, but found this paper. It relates to the equation you used.

Extremely useful study, thanks. They graphed the relationship between ceruloplasmin and serum copper for a very large patient population, and it's a nearly linear relationship. I immediately see my data point falls outside the graphed relationship, so that definitely gets my curiosity up. I have serum copper at 18.08 umol/L and ceruloplasmin at 187.9 mg/L. The relationship is in their Figure 1.

 

[Kyle Bigman]

Research Wilson's Disease, which is what happens in a small number of people who retain too much copper. They get liver failure and other equally horrible impacts.

In association with Wilson's Disease, there is a calculation that can be used to estimate your free copper load, and I published that earlier in this thread. Mine is high, even though serum and RBC copper are low-normal. That makes me want to resolve the contradictory evidence.



Do you have any research on that? I'm pretty sure that Wilson's Disease is based on retention of excess organic copper.



If there is one or two articles that you think are most insightful on the copper issue, please share those.

I have the same issue. Did you check ceruloplasmin? Mine was also below 0.20, the low range of normal. Mine was 0.19. I did a 24 hour urine test and am waiting for the results, but I don't see how it can come back normal if the bloodstream is high in copper...just doesn't make sense that you would pee out a normal level if that were the case.

 

[Whataboutbob]

https://suzycohen.com/articles/tag/copper/

 

[ljihkugft7]

Don’t you need retinol to get the copper into the ceruloplasm? Like, to utilise the copper

why has no one mentioned retinol deficiency ?
This can happen because of malabsorption?
Because heavy metal toxicity causes Candida/bowl disorders leading to malabsorption? Probably also blood sugar dyregulation?
Not sure if I’m on the right track, but there’s definitely a study on pubmed saying that you need vit A to utilise copper

 

[Daniil]

Does Ray Peat ever acknowledge the possibility of excess Free Copper in the body, and if yes how does he advise removing it?

Copper is a necessary nutrient, and there is good documentation in the literature about what can go wrong if you are short of copper. But the body can have more copper than it can store. You can calculate the so-called "free copper" in the body as:

Serum Copper MINUS (3.15 * Ceruloplasmin)

Ceruloplasmin is the major copper carrying protein in the body and is used as a marker for copper that your body is utilizing.

The supposedly correct level for Free Copper is around 5 to 15 ug/dL. When you have levels much higher than that you need to be evaluated for Wilson's Disease, a rare but extremely serious disorder caused by excess copper.

I read in the literature that excess free copper and free iron are together suspected as the source for most free radicals as we age. So apparently some of the evil that Ray Peat sees in excess iron also exists for excess copper.

Assuming Ray Peat even acknowledges the possibility of excess Free Copper, how does he recommend getting rid of it? With iron, it is easy enough to donate blood. With copper, you can chelate (which is dangerous), or you can try to up your intake of zinc and try to outcompete copper, or...?

I'm not seeing a lot of wisdom on this issue online. There are lots of naturopaths who don't even understand the value of the ceruloplasmin calculation and who rely just on hair analysis (which is suggestive but pretty fuzzy science). Their methods for removing copper are "fuzzy" at best. I am looking for clarity on this issue.

I have a "free copper" measurement over 40 ug/dL. So I have a lot of it and at this point do not understand how to safely get rid of it.

I counted, I got 27 ug/dL

 

[Daniil]

I don't think one disease which few people get therefore means that copper is any dietary problem. Nor does the accumulation of copper necessarily mean that consumption of copper is the source of the problem.


I'd be weary of any calculation. Why are you doing this calculation, in the first place? Where is the evidence that copper is harmful? What about all the people who healthfully consume regular amounts of copper-rich seafood, or the studies where supplemental copper improves health in people?

Are you simply trying to avoid one disease? Well, there must be thousands of different diseases, involving every possible nutrient or lack thereof, so by avoiding one you may fall into another.

I think it'd be much wiser to 'aim for health' rather than 'avoid disease' or any particular disease, unless you have already developed some particular known disease.


Google:
site:raypeat.com iron
site:raypeat.com copper
Also some interesting things here Hemocyanin - Wikipedia

There are a lot of people with Wilson's disease(sarcasm).

By the way, I used to take large doses of retinol acetate for acne. Apparently, it didn't help me much. My ferritin is 70.

I think an excess of oestrogen can make the problem worse. but retinol is definitely useful.