The Copper Detoxification Log

redsun

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The flu passed and with it my high spirits, I now feel just like before. Very frustrating. Last time I got sick, i ate liver paté, but apparently it's made on pork liver which is low in copper, so the 20 grams or so that I ate had like 0.2 mg copper. Maybe the vitamin A was doing something, like with the eggs i ate now. This is really annoying.
High vitamin A dose dependently lowers acetylcholine synthesis which is synergistic with histamine. This is partly the benefit of eating a bunch of eggs (tons of choline). So if you need Ach, you will feel worse from vit. A which reduces it. Also vitamin A in high doses lowers cortisol, which increases immune system activity. The problem is if cortisol is too low, you can easily get sick so its important to be careful in regards to that.
 
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Quelsatron

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High vitamin A dose dependently lowers acetylcholine synthesis which is synergistic with histamine. This is partly the benefit of eating a bunch of eggs (tons of choline). So if you need Ach, you will feel worse from vit. A which reduces it. Also vitamin A in high doses lowers cortisol, which increases immune system activity. The problem is if cortisol is too low, you can easily get sick so its important to be careful in regards to that.
So, what would be the plan here? If it's an acetylcholine question, the eggs will help with the choline, but also hinder with the vitamin A (although it's doubtful if the dose can be called high, 3 eggs is within the RDA, same as with 20 grams of pork liver). If it's a question of copper overload, how DO you actually recover from overload aside from just restricting intake for a obnoxiously long time?

I also recall that around last thursday just before I got sick, I ate one egg (along with a slice of bread, some yoghurt, some muesli) and I very rapidly became very warm and energetic, which might just be a coincidence but it feels linked to the egg somehow. But now, I don't get like that from the eggs, I just feel normal.

I've been reading your posts a lot, because your theories makes sense in my context, and with the recent cold and awesome feelings I became convinced that it's the way to go right now.
 

Vinero

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Why are you eating potatoes? They are quite high in copper too. I think white rice is the safest source of starch. White pasta and white bread are probably safe too. I have tried eating potatoes many times as my main type of starch but start to feel really bad every time. I get depressed, anxious and skin breakouts if I eat potatoes everyday. Potatoes are too high in soluble fiber and oxalates, besides being high in copper also.
 

Quelsatron

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Why are you eating potatoes? They are quite high in copper too. I think white rice is the safest source of starch. White pasta and white bread are probably safe too. I have tried eating potatoes many times as my main type of starch but start to feel really bad every time. I get depressed, anxious and skin breakouts if I eat potatoes everyday. Potatoes are too high in soluble fiber and oxalates, besides being high in copper also.
Isn't most of the copper in the skin, with the flesh having like .1 mg per 100 grams?
 

Vinero

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Isn't most of the copper in the skin, with the flesh having like .1 mg per 100 grams?
Yes that's probably true. Peeled Potatoes aren't that high in copper. But they are still somewhat higher than white rice and refined wheat. I don't get a high copper feeling from potatoes. I guess I was just complaining that potatoes make me feel bad when I try to use them as my source of carbs.
 

Quelsatron

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Yes that's probably true. Peeled Potatoes aren't that high in copper. But they are still somewhat higher than white rice and refined wheat. I don't get a high copper feeling from potatoes. I guess I was just complaining that potatoes make me feel bad when I try to use them as my source of carbs.
Potatoes have way more nutrition than flour and rice, which probably means they have way more anti-nutritive effects as well, so it's more polarizing than whiter carbs.
 

Vinero

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Potatoes have way more nutrition than flour and rice, which probably means they have way more anti-nutritive effects as well, so it's more polarizing than whiter carbs.
Beans and whole grains also have way more nutrients than white rice and white bread. Yet I seem to feel much better eating refined grains.
I have experimented a lot with beans and whole grains like black beans, white beans, buckwheat, spelt, whole wheat, oats, barley, etc.
All these foods are very high in nutrients like b1 and magnesium. But I start to feel like death is near when I eat high amounts of these foods everyday.
I think it's better to eat "clean" carbs like coca cola and white rice. Even though they have less vitamins and minerals I feel a million times better.
 

InChristAlone

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Beans and whole grains also have way more nutrients than white rice and white bread. Yet I seem to feel much better eating refined grains.
I have experimented a lot with beans and whole grains like black beans, white beans, buckwheat, spelt, whole wheat, oats, barley, etc.
All these foods are very high in nutrients like b1 and magnesium. But I start to feel like death is near when I eat high amounts of these foods everyday.
I think it's better to eat "clean" carbs like coca cola and white rice. Even though they have less vitamins and minerals I feel a million times better.
You just described me for the last 8 yrs. Clean carbs are way way easier on the digestion. Beans and whole grains are my nemesis. I ate a handful of whole grain last week and had the worst cramping bowel movement I think I've ever had. Though I probably say that every time I get a bad episode. Potatoes are the least harmful for me, but still if I try to use them as a main carb source I also feel pretty bad. I think there is something up with the gut biome to cause this as I used to be able to tolerate more whole grains in the past before I ever knew about Peat. But I've always had episodes of IBS since as far back as probably 10. Had a lot of antibiotics as a kid for strep throat.
 

tommyg130

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Hello everyone,

I already have another thread on the forum („The Abundant Energy Legacy“), but I want to open up a new thread just regarding my copper detoxification experience. I think the topic deserves much more attention and awareness.

So to begin with..
A few months ago I developed severe histapenia (low histamine) symptoms, caused by a high copper diet. (lots of daily beef liver, mushrooms, potatoes, whole food vitamin C)

The symptoms of histapenia or copper toxicity include:
- Anxiety / Panic Disorder
- Emotional Numbness
- Phases Of Mania / Energy Pulses
- Low Libido
- Hard Time Reaching Orgasm (If At All)
- Low Metabolism / Thyroid
- Intolerance Of Cold
- Cold Hands And Feet
- Inability To Handle Stress
- Irritability
- Excessive Anger
- Low Motivation
- Low Achiever
- High Creativity
- Oftentimes Really Religious
- Hallucinations / Distortion of Perception
- Psychosis
- Schizophrenia
- Canker Sores
- Heavy Growth Of Body Hair
- Ideas Of Grandeur
- Undue Suspicions Of People Or Government
- Racing Thoughts
- Feeling That Someone Is Controlling Your Mind
- Ringing In Ears Or Tinnitus
- Dizziness / Vertigo / Free Floating Anxiety
- Many Food Sensitivities
- Lack Of Allergies
- Low Stomach Acid
- Digestive Issues
- Lack Of Concentration (ADHD)
- Wired But Tired
- Insomnia / Sleep Disturbance
- Restless Legs
- Intolerance Of SSRIs, Anti-Histamines, Estrogen Therapy
- Improvements On Benzodiazepines
- Improvements On High Dose Niacin Treatment

So quite a list. And I had nearly all symptoms + being on edge of developing psychosis.

Blood Tests To Evaluate:
- Whole Blood Histamine
- Basophils
- Serum Copper
- Serum Ceruloplasmin

It‘s typical to see low histamine (below 40ng/ml) with low basophils, elevated/normal serum copper, normal ceruloplasmin.
But many experts on CT say that copper can even appear low on a blood test but is high in the stored tissues. So symptoms and possible HTMA can further help with diagnosis.
Copper toxicity also sometimes leads to low ceruloplasmin.

Treatment:
I stopped the high copper diet and immediately got on a high zinc diet (lots of lean beef) with with white rice / peeled potatoes / some orange juice / salt.
I aimed for a total zinc intake of 100mg a day. 50mg through diet and 50mg via supplementation.
I also included 500mcg of molybdenum in the morning and in the evenings for excretion of copper.
To improve the symptoms quickly I started on high dose niacin(amide) with 3 x 1 - 1.5g a day. This will help raising histamines and quenching excess methylation by high copper.
Vitamin C should be supplied via diet or even potentially by supplementation as copper destroys vitamin C on contact. This can lead to adrenal fatigue or burnout because it‘s the main storage side for vitamin C.
Vitamin C can also lower histamines though, so experimentation is needed in my opinion.
P5P-B6 can help with the utilization of zinc.

For more informations:

Check out the work of Dr. Carl Pfeiffer, Dr. Abram Hoffer, Dr. Rick Malter PhD, Rick Fischer, Ann Louise Gittleman, Dr. Mensah.
Is this the test you refer too for histamine ! ? Mine doesn’t say whole blood though? As you can see I also have HIGH out of range copper and vitamin A. I’ve never supplemented either . I think I’m defintely dealing w what you are describing here?
 

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Jigend

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Grass-fed beef liver causes the most dramatic worsening in symptoms. I cannot tolerate it at all anymore.
During my „Root Cause Protocol“ phase I ate between 1-3 oz. of local grass-fed beef liver every day + well-cooked mushrooms + potatoes + whole food vitamin C supplement.
At first it felt amazing, but I needed to stop the protocol after a few months because of copper excess / low histamine symptoms.

it's interesting that you mention the vitamin C, as according to this exposition vitamin C is supposed to directly antagonize copper. What's more, considering how vitamin C also favors iron absorption and how this heavy metal also antagonizes copper, I'd say that in theory vitamin C was working as a deterrent to copper overload
 

Peater

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Hello everyone,

I already have another thread on the forum („The Abundant Energy Legacy“), but I want to open up a new thread just regarding my copper detoxification experience. I think the topic deserves much more attention and awareness.

So to begin with..
A few months ago I developed severe histapenia (low histamine) symptoms, caused by a high copper diet. (lots of daily beef liver, mushrooms, potatoes, whole food vitamin C)

The symptoms of histapenia or copper toxicity include:
- Anxiety / Panic Disorder
- Emotional Numbness
- Phases Of Mania / Energy Pulses
- Low Libido
- Hard Time Reaching Orgasm (If At All)
- Low Metabolism / Thyroid
- Intolerance Of Cold
- Cold Hands And Feet
- Inability To Handle Stress
- Irritability
- Excessive Anger
- Low Motivation
- Low Achiever
- High Creativity
- Oftentimes Really Religious
- Hallucinations / Distortion of Perception
- Psychosis
- Schizophrenia
- Canker Sores
- Heavy Growth Of Body Hair
- Ideas Of Grandeur
- Undue Suspicions Of People Or Government
- Racing Thoughts
- Feeling That Someone Is Controlling Your Mind
- Ringing In Ears Or Tinnitus
- Dizziness / Vertigo / Free Floating Anxiety
- Many Food Sensitivities
- Lack Of Allergies
- Low Stomach Acid
- Digestive Issues
- Lack Of Concentration (ADHD)
- Wired But Tired
- Insomnia / Sleep Disturbance
- Restless Legs
- Intolerance Of SSRIs, Anti-Histamines, Estrogen Therapy
- Improvements On Benzodiazepines
- Improvements On High Dose Niacin Treatment

So quite a list. And I had nearly all symptoms + being on edge of developing psychosis.

Blood Tests To Evaluate:
- Whole Blood Histamine
- Basophils
- Serum Copper
- Serum Ceruloplasmin

It‘s typical to see low histamine (below 40ng/ml) with low basophils, elevated/normal serum copper, normal ceruloplasmin.
But many experts on CT say that copper can even appear low on a blood test but is high in the stored tissues. So symptoms and possible HTMA can further help with diagnosis.
Copper toxicity also sometimes leads to low ceruloplasmin.

Treatment:
I stopped the high copper diet and immediately got on a high zinc diet (lots of lean beef) with with white rice / peeled potatoes / some orange juice / salt.
I aimed for a total zinc intake of 100mg a day. 50mg through diet and 50mg via supplementation.
I also included 500mcg of molybdenum in the morning and in the evenings for excretion of copper.
To improve the symptoms quickly I started on high dose niacin(amide) with 3 x 1 - 1.5g a day. This will help raising histamines and quenching excess methylation by high copper.
Vitamin C should be supplied via diet or even potentially by supplementation as copper destroys vitamin C on contact. This can lead to adrenal fatigue or burnout because it‘s the main storage side for vitamin C.
Vitamin C can also lower histamines though, so experimentation is needed in my opinion.
P5P-B6 can help with the utilization of zinc.

For more informations:

Check out the work of Dr. Carl Pfeiffer, Dr. Abram Hoffer, Dr. Rick Malter PhD, Rick Fischer, Ann Louise Gittleman, Dr. Mensah.

How did this go for you @youngsinatra ? Can you remember if there were any unpleasant "detox" symptoms and how long they lasted?

I ask as I have done nothing except take a little molybdenum (200mcg), and I wonder if that combined with my recent change over to a lower A, higher zinc diet and approach has started moving copper. I don't feel great and had a little whisky to take the edge off. I wasn't even setting out to detox copper, if that is what this is...I was just checking out the big 5 minerals.

@Nick I just found a thread where you mentioned similar...I think this is copper rather than retinol, but still interested in your thoughts.
 
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charlie

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Peater

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What are your symptoms?

Quite a lot off the list, which made me think of when you mentioned copper "moving around" and you felt awful too. Anxiety, depressive and racing thoughts, a generally bad state of mind. The back of my knees hurt as well(?!)
 

charlie

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Anxiety, depressive and racing thoughts, a generally bad state of mind. The back of my knees hurt as well(?!)
Sounds about right. If it gets to be a bit too much for me I just back off or stop the big pushers like zinc and molybdenum. You will get really good at this dance and the payoff is incredible.
So It Begins Helms Deep GIF by Giphy QA
 

Peater

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Sounds about right. If it gets to be a bit too much for me I just back off or stop the big pushers like zinc and molybdenum. You will get really good at this dance and the payoff is incredible.
So It Begins Helms Deep GIF by Giphy QA

I think you're right thanks Charlie...I made sure to have plenty of fibre to help draw it out, but I suppose it needs to get where it needs to go first. I rarely drink and felt very disappointed to use it in such a way. Only enough to experience the slight relaxant effect, I'm not drunk as such.
 

charlie

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I rarely drink and felt very disappointed to use it in such a way.
No worries, you got this. You are powerfully moving in the right direction.
 

Peater

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No worries, you got this. You are powerfully moving in the right direction.

I appreciate the kind words charlie. I'll stick with the beef as a natural source of zinc. Selenium doesn't seem to effect copper too much so maybe I'll stick with that and a small dose of niacin with food for now.
 

charlie

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I appreciate the kind words charlie. I'll stick with the beef as a natural source of zinc. Selenium doesn't seem to effect copper too much so maybe I'll stick with that and a small dose of niacin with food for now.
Yeh beef is powerful. There could be times that things start moving so much that beef will not be tolerated and that's when turkey comes into play for me. I have had a couple of times during this process that I had to go to turkey only. I have seen others have to do the same. Once that period passes then beef can and should be brought back in.

I usually can keep selenium going most the time now. Niacin can powerfully move copper and everything else so I am always dancing with that.

I don't want to get much into my results but I will just say it just keeps getting better and better.....truly incredible. Feeling Blessed to be able to witness and be a part of this. :pray
 

Peater

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Yeh beef is powerful. There could be times that things start moving so much that beef will not be tolerated and that's when turkey comes into play for me. I have had a couple of times during this process that I had to go to turkey only. I have seen others have to do the same. Once that period passes then beef can and should be brought back in.

I usually can keep selenium going most the time now. Niacin can powerfully move copper and everything else so I am always dancing with that.

I don't want to get much into my results but I will just say it just keeps getting better and better.....truly incredible. Feeling Blessed to be able to witness and be a part of this. :pray
That's interesting thank you...if I recall correctly turkey mince is easy to get here so I will pick some up tomorrow.
 

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