crazypatriot

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Copper Increases Thyroid Health

Serum Copper levels associated with higher Free T4
Exploring the role of copper and selenium in the maintenance of normal thyroid function among healthy Koreans

Thyroid hormone stimulates release of liver copper as ceruloplasmin
Serum copper as a novel biomarker for resistance to thyroid hormone

Copper Increases free and total t4
Thyroid Function and Serum Copper, Selenium, and Zinc in General U.S. Population - Biological Trace Element Research

Copper levels associated with hyperthyroidism
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/40/1/26/4691322

Copper deficiency in rats causes low T4
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abstract/112/11/2043/4554029

Lower Ceruloplasmin (copper protein) associated with hypothyroidism
https://t.ly/_o3z

Copper and Neuropeptides

Copper is needed for PAM (peptidylglycine α-amidating monooxygenase)
Plasma peptidylglycine alpha-amidating monooxygenase (PAM) and ceruloplasmin are affected by age and copper status in rats and mice

What is PAM?

PAM is a copper-containing enzyme that catalyzes two distinct reactions: the monooxygenation of peptidylglycine substrates to form an unstable α-hydroxyglycine intermediate, and the subsequent amidation of this intermediate to produce an α-amidated peptide product. The enzyme requires ascorbate as a cofactor for its activity.

The amidation reaction catalyzed by PAM is important for the biological activity of many peptides, including neuropeptides, hormones, and growth factors. Peptides that are not amidated may have reduced or altered biological activity, and thus PAM is critical for the proper function of many physiological systems in the body.

In other words, copper (and vitamin C) are the primary cofactors in activating 50% of all neuropeptides.
A Mass Spectrometry-Based Method to Screen for α-Amidated Peptides/

Amidated (activated) Neuropeptides are extremely important.

One example is Pro-GnRH, the precursor to GnRH. Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) is a hormone produced by the hypothalamus in the brain that stimulates the pituitary gland to release follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH), which are important for the regulation of reproductive functions in both males and females.

This means that a copper, glycine, and vitamin C dependent enzyme is a gate-keeper for the primary pathway of sex hormone synthesis!

What other peptides are amidated by PAM?

Calcitonin - Calcitonin is a hormone that regulates calcium and phosphate metabolism in the body.

Vasopressin - Vasopressin, also known as antidiuretic hormone, is a hormone that regulates water balance in the body by promoting water reabsorption in the kidneys.

Somatostatin - Somatostatin is a peptide hormone that regulates the release of other hormones in the body.

Cholecystokinin - Cholecystokinin is a peptide hormone that regulates digestive processes in the body.

Oxytocin - Oxytocin is a neuropeptide that is involved in the regulation of social behavior, sexual reproduction, and stress response.

And many more.

PAM can be used as a biomarker for copper status
Plasma peptidylglycine alpha-amidating monooxygenase (PAM) and ceruloplasmin are affected by age and copper status in rats and mice

Some studies on PAM

Low PAM causes Seizures, anxiety, body heat issues

Low PAM causes Issues with the amygdala, lowering neuroplasticity (ability to learn and adapt to fear)

Mice without PAM are unviable and do no pass gestation, copper deficiency causes behavioral issues

PAM may lower cortisol by amidating ACTH (cortisol producing hormone)
"PAM amidates the COOH terminal of ACTH (1–13) in the pathway creating α-MSH"

Rats with PAM mutations get fat and experience glucose intolerance

Is copper the missing link?

Does anyone have anecdotes from copper supplementation?

I personally have been taking 10-20mg as copper bisglycinate in the last few weeks to fight anhedonia, brain fog, lack of empathy, overeating, low libido, recurring infections, and general fatigue. I also stopped taking any zinc supplements.

I've noticed slow improvements in all of these areas, but still have some bad days. I've lost my cold hands and feet, and actually sweat during my workouts now. I also cleared up a sinus issue that I had for many weeks. Brain fog seems better in that I have less trouble communicating my thoughts in social settings and writing software isn't as headache inducing.

I had a lowish free T4 in a test during the last winter.
T4 - 1.1ng/dL

Will try to get a new test in the next few months to see if this is placebo or my missing link.
 

youngsinatra

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I think it’s the other way around. Thyroid increases circulating serum copper and ceruloplasmin by extrahepatic mobilization. Low thyroid causes low copper, but this does not necessarily mean that your hepatic stores of copper are low.

I extensively tried to raise my copper with supplementation (Cu2 and Cu1) and copper-rich foods over a year, but my labs did not budge one bit. I‘m trying thyroid to raise it.
 

youngsinatra

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In a case report that just looked like Wilson disease (very low ceruloplasmin and copper) turned out to be just hypothyroidism. After T4 supplementation the ceruloplasmin normalized.
 
OP
C

crazypatriot

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Messages
52
I think it’s the other way around. Thyroid increases circulating serum copper and ceruloplasmin by extrahepatic mobilization. Low thyroid causes low copper, but this does not necessarily mean that your hepatic stores of copper are low.

I extensively tried to raise my copper with supplementation (Cu2 and Cu1) and copper-rich foods over a year, but my labs did not budge one bit. I‘m trying thyroid to raise it.

Let's assume this is correct.

So increased thyroid function would draw copper from the liver. Hepatic copper would be depleted at a higher rate.

Would this require a higher dietary amount of copper to sustain? Could the body intentionally lower thyroid function to prevent stored copper deficiency?
 

youngsinatra

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Messages
3,085
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Was that a Hair sample test?
No, blood tests. Serum copper and ceruloplasmin did not change favorably.

After 6 months of copper bisglycinate (8mg/d) my serum copper elevated from 55 to 78, but with minor elevation of ceruloplasmin 15 to 18 leading to a high free/unbound copper index.
I stopped taking it due to getting liver pains from it.

After I retested serum copper moved down to 55 again, ceruloplasmin down to baseline 15. I see this kind of number in a lot of people! And I suspect it’s not due to deficiency, because those I know with low copper don’t really respond to more copper.

I think that copper does in fact get easily absorbed, but the body does not like the copper to float freely in the blood stream because of it’s prooxidant nature, and relatively quickly moves the circulating copper into the liver, where it (ideally) gets loaded onto binding proteins/copper chaperones like ceruloplasmin. But you need good thyroid/adrenal/liver function to do that. And in hypothyroidism all those organs suffer.
BUT for a moment you feel the rush of energy from a influx of free copper in the blood stream after supplementation. But you need to continually take copper to get that feeling. And it will eventually built up in your liver.

Over the year of supplementing copper I still had deficiency symptoms (and labs) yet I also got some copper toxicity symptoms like a pear-shaped-estrogenic body composition, my libido disappeared, felt effeminate, heavy body hair everywhere, but at least with lots of hair growth.
 

supercoolguy

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Aug 5, 2015
Messages
411
No, blood tests. Serum copper and ceruloplasmin did not change favorably.

After 6 months of copper bisglycinate (8mg/d) my serum copper elevated from 55 to 78, but with minor elevation of ceruloplasmin 15 to 18 leading to a high free/unbound copper index.
I stopped taking it due to getting liver pains from it.

After I retested serum copper moved down to 55 again, ceruloplasmin down to baseline 15. I see this kind of number in a lot of people! And I suspect it’s not due to deficiency, because those I know with low copper don’t really respond to more copper.

I think that copper does in fact get easily absorbed, but the body does not like the copper to float freely in the blood stream because of it’s prooxidant nature, and relatively quickly moves the circulating copper into the liver, where it (ideally) gets loaded onto binding proteins/copper chaperones like ceruloplasmin. But you need good thyroid/adrenal/liver function to do that. And in hypothyroidism all those organs suffer.
BUT for a moment you feel the rush of energy from a influx of free copper in the blood stream after supplementation. But you need to continually take copper to get that feeling. And it will eventually built up in your liver.

Over the year of supplementing copper I still had deficiency symptoms (and labs) yet I also got some copper toxicity symptoms like a pear-shaped-estrogenic body composition, my libido disappeared, felt effeminate, heavy body hair everywhere, but at least with lots of hair growth.
I see, thanks. Ray seemed to consistently recommend seafood or shellfish 1-2 week. That indicates to me the trace amounts are enough over time, plus the selenium co-factor. Im put-off by grocery store seafood. My pipe dream copper source would be the Horsehoe Crab/Blue Blood, the phama companies use it to sterilize their inject-able products. ($60k/gal)

You had head hair folical regenerate? Wonder if topical would localize that effect w/o the systemic burden.
 

youngsinatra

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Messages
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How is/was your vitamin A intake?

Were you taking high amounts of zinc, niacin, vitamin C, or vitamin D?
I had chronic vitamin A toxicity (2x the reference range serum retinol) from retinol supplementation.

And no to the other supplements.
 

mattmm24

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Jun 15, 2022
Messages
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Location
United States
Copper Increases Thyroid Health

Serum Copper levels associated with higher Free T4
Exploring the role of copper and selenium in the maintenance of normal thyroid function among healthy Koreans

Thyroid hormone stimulates release of liver copper as ceruloplasmin
Serum copper as a novel biomarker for resistance to thyroid hormone

Copper Increases free and total t4
Thyroid Function and Serum Copper, Selenium, and Zinc in General U.S. Population - Biological Trace Element Research

Copper levels associated with hyperthyroidism
Zinc, copper, manganese, and selenium metabolism in thyroid disease

Copper deficiency in rats causes low T4
Function of Pituitary-Thyroid Axis in Copper-Deficient Rats

Lower Ceruloplasmin (copper protein) associated with hypothyroidism
https://t.ly/_o3z

Copper and Neuropeptides

Copper is needed for PAM (peptidylglycine α-amidating monooxygenase)
Plasma peptidylglycine alpha-amidating monooxygenase (PAM) and ceruloplasmin are affected by age and copper status in rats and mice

What is PAM?

PAM is a copper-containing enzyme that catalyzes two distinct reactions: the monooxygenation of peptidylglycine substrates to form an unstable α-hydroxyglycine intermediate, and the subsequent amidation of this intermediate to produce an α-amidated peptide product. The enzyme requires ascorbate as a cofactor for its activity.

The amidation reaction catalyzed by PAM is important for the biological activity of many peptides, including neuropeptides, hormones, and growth factors. Peptides that are not amidated may have reduced or altered biological activity, and thus PAM is critical for the proper function of many physiological systems in the body.

In other words, copper (and vitamin C) are the primary cofactors in activating 50% of all neuropeptides.
A Mass Spectrometry-Based Method to Screen for α-Amidated Peptides/

Amidated (activated) Neuropeptides are extremely important.

One example is Pro-GnRH, the precursor to GnRH. Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) is a hormone produced by the hypothalamus in the brain that stimulates the pituitary gland to release follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH), which are important for the regulation of reproductive functions in both males and females.

This means that a copper, glycine, and vitamin C dependent enzyme is a gate-keeper for the primary pathway of sex hormone synthesis!

What other peptides are amidated by PAM?

Calcitonin - Calcitonin is a hormone that regulates calcium and phosphate metabolism in the body.

Vasopressin - Vasopressin, also known as antidiuretic hormone, is a hormone that regulates water balance in the body by promoting water reabsorption in the kidneys.

Somatostatin - Somatostatin is a peptide hormone that regulates the release of other hormones in the body.

Cholecystokinin - Cholecystokinin is a peptide hormone that regulates digestive processes in the body.

Oxytocin - Oxytocin is a neuropeptide that is involved in the regulation of social behavior, sexual reproduction, and stress response.

And many more.

PAM can be used as a biomarker for copper status
Plasma peptidylglycine alpha-amidating monooxygenase (PAM) and ceruloplasmin are affected by age and copper status in rats and mice

Some studies on PAM

Low PAM causes Seizures, anxiety, body heat issues

Low PAM causes Issues with the amygdala, lowering neuroplasticity (ability to learn and adapt to fear)

Mice without PAM are unviable and do no pass gestation, copper deficiency causes behavioral issues

PAM may lower cortisol by amidating ACTH (cortisol producing hormone)
"PAM amidates the COOH terminal of ACTH (1–13) in the pathway creating α-MSH"

Rats with PAM mutations get fat and experience glucose intolerance

Is copper the missing link?

Does anyone have anecdotes from copper supplementation?

I personally have been taking 10-20mg as copper bisglycinate in the last few weeks to fight anhedonia, brain fog, lack of empathy, overeating, low libido, recurring infections, and general fatigue. I also stopped taking any zinc supplements.

I've noticed slow improvements in all of these areas, but still have some bad days. I've lost my cold hands and feet, and actually sweat during my workouts now. I also cleared up a sinus issue that I had for many weeks. Brain fog seems better in that I have less trouble communicating my thoughts in social settings and writing software isn't as headache inducing.

I had a lowish free T4 in a test during the last winter.
T4 - 1.1ng/dL

Will try to get a new test in the next few months to see if this is placebo or my missing link.
Copper makes me worse. Same as YoungSinatra, I took every type of copper pill because I had low copper on HTMA. Couldn't figure out if I was deficient or toxic. I came to the conclusion I am toxic and the majority of people are toxic with copper. I have been taking supplementation similar to what garret smith reccomends which is zinc, molybdenum, magnesium, selenium, and then I also take a little b1, b6, and b12 + boron. I try to get a lot of calcium from goat milk. This combination has me feeling absolutely amazing. One thing that I try not to do though is eat a ton of red meat. I do better on chicken and sardines. My ferretin was around 250, and so I am trying to get that down as well. Anyway, all of this has got me feeling pretty good with the occasional detox side effects.
 

Jamsey

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Messages
184
I see, thanks. Ray seemed to consistently recommend seafood or shellfish 1-2 week. That indicates to me the trace amounts are enough over time, plus the selenium co-factor. Im put-off by grocery store seafood. My pipe dream copper source would be the Horsehoe Crab/Blue Blood, the phama companies use it to sterilize their inject-able products. ($60k/gal)

You had head hair folical regenerate? Wonder if topical would localize that effect w/o the systemic burden.

The study link is down the page, but GHK-cu, a copper peptide, reverses miniaturization and stimulates growth in cell studies at least.
 
OP
C

crazypatriot

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
52
I'm still taking copper, but I think it's only part of the puzzle for me. I had some copper deficiency symptoms that have been cleared up, but still having some issues with fatigue and short term memory issues.

I've been sunbathing 30 mins everyday its sunny, which really has helped more than copper for clearing depressive thoughts and restoring optimism. I stopped taking 10,000iu of vitamin D3. It's nothing compared to the sun.

I've had some gut issue flare up lately, which I've had sporadically the last 2 years or so. Going down the research rabbit hole of H Pylori, FODMAPs, SIBO, leaky gut, etc... Ive had lots of belching, intestinal pain, panic attacks, sleep issues. Trying zinc carnosine, sulforaphane, and kefir among other things, which are helping. The copper didn't seem to prevent any of this. I'm now suspecting that a lot of my mental issues are stemming from intestinal and digestive issues.
 

tallglass13

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
838
No, blood tests. Serum copper and ceruloplasmin did not change favorably.

After 6 months of copper bisglycinate (8mg/d) my serum copper elevated from 55 to 78, but with minor elevation of ceruloplasmin 15 to 18 leading to a high free/unbound copper index.
I stopped taking it due to getting liver pains from it.

After I retested serum copper moved down to 55 again, ceruloplasmin down to baseline 15. I see this kind of number in a lot of people! And I suspect it’s not due to deficiency, because those I know with low copper don’t really respond to more copper.

I think that copper does in fact get easily absorbed, but the body does not like the copper to float freely in the blood stream because of it’s prooxidant nature, and relatively quickly moves the circulating copper into the liver, where it (ideally) gets loaded onto binding proteins/copper chaperones like ceruloplasmin. But you need good thyroid/adrenal/liver function to do that. And in hypothyroidism all those organs suffer.
BUT for a moment you feel the rush of energy from a influx of free copper in the blood stream after supplementation. But you need to continually take copper to get that feeling. And it will eventually built up in your liver.

Over the year of supplementing copper I still had deficiency symptoms (and labs) yet I also got some copper toxicity symptoms like a pear-shaped-estrogenic body composition, my libido disappeared, felt effeminate, heavy body hair everywhere, but at least with lots of hair growth.
Not sure if your willing to try Resveratrol, but a person on here used to say that Resveratrol will Chelate Copper from the liver and make it bioavailable. Worth a try to see if that is true.
 

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