Copper deficiency and low testosterone

[Gorillaquills]

Copper is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Been doing a lot of reading about this mineral and how amazing it is.

Sometimes I wonder that there's a lot of Truth to the over consumption of muscle meats, Like getting too much zinc and not getting enough copper to balance it out.

This also makes me wonder why there could be such a high iron overload in many due to the fact of everything being fortified and too much muscle meats and not enough organ meats specifically liver to get the copper.

Morley Robbins AKA magnesium man talks about the importance of copper. Without enough copper the iron roams around not going to where it's needed causing excessive iron buildup, Organ problems, arthritis, low testosterone and a whole host of other problems.

There's a lot of videos about excess iron causing men to have low testosterone.

I wonder what anybody thinks about this subject?

What if you have way too much iron in your body but you need to get copper.?
The most bioavailable way is to get it from food. What if you can't get it from food and you need to supplement?
Is there a good supplement that somebody would recommend?
How much should you take a week without causing toxicity?
What do other rats think?

 

[youngsinatra]

This might be interesting to you:

Root Cause Protocol & A Ray Peat Perspective

The statement mission of the Root Cause Protocol: „The RCP is designed to: 1. increase bioavailable COPPER (Ceruloplasmin) in order to... 2. decrease unbound IRON and... 3. decrease the MAGNESIUM burn rate in order to... 4. repair cellular mineral imbalance - the ROOT CAUSE of virtually ALL...

raypeatforum.com

 

[chrstn4o]

Copper is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Been doing a lot of reading about this mineral and how amazing it is.

Sometimes I wonder that there's a lot of Truth to the over consumption of muscle meats, Like getting too much zinc and not getting enough copper to balance it out.

This also makes me wonder why there could be such a high iron overload in many due to the fact of everything being fortified and too much muscle meats and not enough organ meats specifically liver to get the copper.

Morley Robbins AKA magnesium man talks about the importance of copper. Without enough copper the iron roams around not going to where it's needed causing excessive iron buildup, Organ problems, arthritis, low testosterone and a whole host of other problems.

There's a lot of videos about excess iron causing men to have low testosterone.

I wonder what anybody thinks about this subject?

What if you have way too much iron in your body but you need to get copper.?
The most bioavailable way is to get it from food. What if you can't get it from food and you need to supplement?
Is there a good supplement that somebody would recommend?
How much should you take a week without causing toxicity?
What do other rats think?

Been taking up 60mg of zinc (15:1 zinc/copper supplement is the one I use most) along with a lot of muscle meat for more than 5 years now. Have done plenty of hair testing and other lab work and have not really seen a detriment or copper deficiency type symptoms. Also with my clients most often it actually seems that they have inadequate zinc intake and higher copper intake/status - but that is in my population (some ex-vegetarians/vegans, women, post-partum, etc), folks on this forum may be more toward the other side of the spectrum.

Having said that I do eat more liver (2-3 times a week) nowadays and do occasionally use Solgar's chelated copper (8mg) based on intuition (high zinc, low copper days). Also have tapered my zinc supplementation to 30mg (with 2mg copper) on most days, unless I feel extra support is needed.

You may want to use an app like cronometer to track your typical food intake for a week or two, and use that to gauge whether you're skewing too far in one direction. The body is pretty good at buffering things but over a long enough timeline imbalances can occur. I don't think you will cause toxicity if you try to keep zinc to copper in the diet at roughly 15:1.

That's kind of my take, vastly simplified for brevity of course, but I am a bit of a zinc fanboy. Increased intake displaces accumulated toxic metals like cadmium, so taking it over a long period of time is beneficial in my view, as the process is slow. I believe we get plenty of copper if we eat a varied diet with fruit and veg, but many folks doing more meat-based may be skewing toward higher zinc, so you need to gauge your situation. HTH.

 

[Gorillaquills]

This might be interesting to you:

Root Cause Protocol & A Ray Peat Perspective

The statement mission of the Root Cause Protocol: „The RCP is designed to: 1. increase bioavailable COPPER (Ceruloplasmin) in order to... 2. decrease unbound IRON and... 3. decrease the MAGNESIUM burn rate in order to... 4. repair cellular mineral imbalance - the ROOT CAUSE of virtually ALL...

raypeatforum.com

Thanks man! That was really interesting! I need to read more in depth about this. Makes sense, truly!

 

[Gorillaquills]

This might be interesting to you:

Root Cause Protocol & A Ray Peat Perspective

The statement mission of the Root Cause Protocol: „The RCP is designed to: 1. increase bioavailable COPPER (Ceruloplasmin) in order to... 2. decrease unbound IRON and... 3. decrease the MAGNESIUM burn rate in order to... 4. repair cellular mineral imbalance - the ROOT CAUSE of virtually ALL...

raypeatforum.com

I was just reading a bunch of your copper threads this morning. Specially the one about that there is really a copper deficiency in the agricultural foods. I have done chronometer for over a year before and I do notice that I get way more zinc and a few other minerals but almost everything I eat shows almost no magnesium ,vitamin D, vitamin e, copper, B1 or their amounts are extremely small. Not nearly enough to supply a body that works out 3 to 4 times a week, walk 7,000 to 10,000 steps a day and so forth. But of course like you so elderly spoke about and some of your other threads, you got to get your thyroid working first.

I do agree about mushrooms too not having enough copper also. The farming has just completely depleted most of the nutritional value in anything we buy nowadays. Also chocolate and nuts have copper but again this is just what an app is telling you but that doesn't mean what the nutritional value is saying is actually what's in the food. And sometimes nuts are very hard to get the nutrients out of them in your intestinal tract unless you soak them or break them down somehow. I think people get lost into the app assuming that they're getting all these minerals when in actuality they're probably not. It's just an estimate. I definitely know this to be true. And again we're all different so you have to find what works for you.

 

[Gorillaquills]

I also think oysters are an excellent but I do think they have way to much iron especially for people that have way to much iron in their body already . Shrimp is way better and it's a good source of glycine and copper.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Is there truly a good copper supplement out there if you're trying to avoid excess iron once you find you're deficient

 

[Don]

Is there truly a good copper supplement out there if you're trying to avoid excess iron once you find you're deficient

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[Gorillaquills]

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I will take a look at this. Thanks

 

[Nebula]

My hunch based off experience is true copper and zinc deficiency is rare. Supplementation does little to nothing. What most people are experiencing is a deficiency of transport proteins for these minerals due to hypothyroidism or something else blocking NAD+ maybe something as simple as not eating enough digestible calories. So the ingested minerals never make it into cells. When I eat a surplus of calories plus thyroid I can feel the positive effects of copper and zinc in my diet immediately, otherwise nothing.

 

[Gorillaquills]

My hunch based off experience is true copper and zinc deficiency is rare. Supplementation does little to nothing. What most people are experiencing is a deficiency of transport proteins for these minerals due to hypothyroidism or something else blocking NAD+ maybe something as simple as not eating enough digestible calories. So the ingested minerals never make it into cells. When I eat a surplus of calories plus thyroid I can feel the positive effects of copper and zinc in my diet immediately, otherwise nothing.

It's so crazy every time I hear something it has to do with the thyroid. It's so fascinating that if your thyroid is out of whack just the least bit it causes a host of problems. It's really starting to make sense now. All the research broda Barnes did back in the 40s on thyroid. Just so interesting!!

It's like the only thing you can do is take thyroid supplements as in desiccated thyroid or prescription thyroid medication to help the problem.

I know iodine and selenium work differently for everyone. They don't seem to work for me and if I take too much iodine I get real anxious and have high anxiety. But in the Japanese they have huge quantities of iodine daily and they have the lowest risk of heart disease, thyroid issues, weight issues and I'm sure there's a lot more.
I recently read the book written by by Dr David brownstein. Why we need iodine and why we can't live without it and his other book salt your way to health. He talks about taking 12 mg to 50 mg of iodine a day which is crazy!! But he said the body is not very good at storing iodine.
But it does explain why back in the 50s 60s and seventies in the middle of the United States called the goiter belt. There was a high prevalence of thyroid goiters and then when they started giving them iodine they went away. Now there is a national recommendation of 150 micrograms of iodine but according to brownstein that isn't even near enough for every cell in our body to function properly. So again it's really testing it on yourself to see if it actually does work for you or not. Slowly of course.

 

[Gorillaquills]

If your thyroid is out of whack, you either gain weight or lose extreme amounts of weight. If your thyroid's out of whack your testosterone can suffer and your hormones can get all out of whack. If you're trying to build muscle and your thyroid is out of whack you're going to have a hell of a time. If your thyroid is full of bromide instead of iodine that can cause a big problem with your t3 and t4. If you're not eating enough sea salt with good minerals that can mess it up. All the polyunsaturated fats/seed oils are just ruining us. Our system nowadays in the modern world is bombarded with the host of horrible things. It's starting to make sense if you get your thyroid working then everything kind of falls back into place, at least that's what I'm starting to gather.

 

[Gorillaquills]

I guess that's why everybody says get your thyroid working first and make sure your liver is working optimally then you can worry about other things

 

[Nebula]

If your thyroid is out of whack, you either gain weight or lose extreme amounts of weight. If your thyroid's out of whack your testosterone can suffer and your hormones can get all out of whack. If you're trying to build muscle and your thyroid is out of whack you're going to have a hell of a time. If your thyroid is full of bromide instead of iodine that can cause a big problem with your t3 and t4. If you're not eating enough sea salt with good minerals that can mess it up. All the polyunsaturated fats/seed oils are just ruining us. Our system nowadays in the modern world is bombarded with the host of horrible things. It's starting to make sense if you get your thyroid working then everything kind of falls back into place, at least that's what I'm starting to gather.

Calories + thyroid + alkaline minerals (calcium/potassium/magnesium) is the foundation of ATP/nad+ production imo. Once that is in place even the copper and zinc from food or a little supplementation should have rapid positive effects.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Calories + thyroid + alkaline minerals (calcium/potassium/magnesium) is the foundation of ATP/nad+ production imo. Once that is in place even the copper and zinc from food or a little supplementation should have rapid positive effects.

Correct me if I'm wrong or anyone else, blood calcium is a good marker for overall body calcium? I've done this one and it's high but not terrible high. Just outside the rage.

Now blood/serum potassium, is this a good way to determine potassium and magnesium levels ?

I have heard and read that blood magnesium levels is not a good indicator of actual magnesium stores in the body?

Dose potassium have the same problem as magnesium?

I have done hair test but I've read this is not a good way to determine body levels. Is there a better more accurate way?

 

[youngsinatra]

Calories + thyroid + alkaline minerals (calcium/potassium/magnesium) is the foundation of ATP/nad+ production imo. Once that is in place even the copper and zinc from food or a little supplementation should have rapid positive effects.

Agree 110%.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Calories + thyroid + alkaline minerals (calcium/potassium/magnesium) is the foundation of ATP/nad+ production imo. Once that is in place even the copper and zinc from food or a little supplementation should have rapid positive effects.

It's interesting about alkaline minerals. I've read quite a few articles that Ray peat has written about them especially if are fasting with no food for a period of time.

 

[Gorillaquills]

So if calcium/potassium and magnesium are the foundation. Optimizing these minerals? The vast majority all know milk for calcium. Should be easy to build body levels.

Potassium? Is this why orange juice and tropical fruit are on peat's list? Plenty of them.

Now magnesium is a different matter. Peat says to get it from veggies. That can be a problem imo. Lots of veggies can have lots of iron also. What if you workout a lot and sweat like crazy 3-4 days a week depleting your stores. Is supplementaion necessary? It is said people who exercise heavily need much much more than in foods. Is this correct?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Calories + thyroid + alkaline minerals (calcium/potassium/magnesium) is the foundation of ATP/nad+ production imo. Once that is in place even the copper and zinc from food or a little supplementation should have rapid positive effects.

Funny you say that because I remember that Morley is of the belief that thyroid does not run the body, and instead, minerals run the body.
I've also seen a few cases of people, clients of a certain coach on Twitter, reverse their hypothyroidism without thyroid medication.
Exogenous thyroid is rarely truly needed. And doesn't work in a lot of people. It's just a stimulant, it's never going to cause true, lasting changes, when the foundations are not in place.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Is this a good way to check magnesium? RBC test measures intracellular magnesium.