Could Copper Deficiency Be The Root Cause Of My Problems?

[PeterSN]

Have you poked around the Copper Revolution Facebook group?
Some folks there have been taking 30+mg for years and claim nothing but improvements.
My personal experience is more like what you're describing though. A month or two of solid improvement followed by some resurgence of symptoms.
It seems in my case that ANY fructose (including what's in sucrose) causes my symptoms to worsen. Starch seems to be fine though.

However, if my hair mineral analysis comes back deficient in copper then ill probably consider supplementing

 

[TheSir]

Ive looked into the risks of copper supllementation and i think ill follow up with my Gp, to possibly get a hair mineral analysis, just to make sure than my tissue levels are also deplete of copper i think. Ive come across alot of people online who started supplementing copper and for the first months their symptoms got better, but then they all got worse and stayed worse after around a year of being on copper

That's fair. Note however that HTMA won't directly reveal the true amount of copper in your body, rather it will only reveal how much is in your cells at the moment, which can vary a lot depending on everything else that is going on in your body. Sometimes a copper overload can be masked as very low levels in hair and vice versa.

Another point is that you might have consistently low levels of copper in hair and still end up with the same issues from prolonged copper supplementation. This is because supplementing any one mineral will affect every other mineral, i.e. the issues caused by supplementing lots of copper are not necessarily symptoms of copper toxicity, but of larger mineral imbalance. For example, as I wrote above, copper will keep elevating your Na/K ratio the longer you use it, which is the most important mineral ratio in your body as the interaction between sodium and potassium determines how much electricity your cells are able to generate. Offsetting it too much will eventually cause problems. There is other kinds of interaction going on too.

If you are simply deficient in copper with no underlying thyroid, liver or adrenal problems, then simply taking more copper for a while should fix you and this would be reflected in your blood test and overall wellbeing. However, as it was said by others, it is also very possible that you are dealing with a wider metabolic issue.

 

[pubh12]

I know so many people with this problem. I thinks it’s a really big issues for many that are struggling with chronic fatigue syndrome, hypoxia-type, pale complexion, anemia-type symptoms.

I have rarely seen someone fix their low blood copper with supplemental copper though, myself included. I texted with some that got multiple copper infusions and all that elevated was liver enzymes and no change in copper labs.
I tried various forms and dosages of it for a year, liquid copper bisglycinate (6-8mg per day for a few months), mitosynergy and global healing‘s copper-1 supplements (2-4 mg a day), copper-rich foods (mushrooms, avocado, chocolate etc.) but nothing really moved the needle for me. My serum copper finally moved from deficient into the lower 25%-percentile of the normal range after I took thyroid.

I‘d also get a ceruloplasmin test. Liver issues, methylation impairments, adrenal issues and low thyroid can cause low blood copper despite adequate liver stores. I cannot tolerate copper supplements or copper rich foods anymore as they make me feel incredibly toxic and my liver backing up.

But of course, for some, just a little more copper can fix the issue.

Ever look into that mitosynergy copper ? Seems very expensive but is it better for absorption ?

 

[youngsinatra]

Ever look into that mitosynergy copper ? Seems very expensive but is it better for absorption ?

I literally mentioned it in the quoted post. Yes I tried it. Even the expensive MitoSynergy bulk powder. (100$/gram)

 

[Jonk]

Don't remember if I've asked the question or not, but have you've had your vit D checked? I'm similar as you, have made improvements with switching up my diet, although mostly starches instead of fruits. Still feel like I'm only mitigating the severity of symptoms, which still is valuable but not getting at the root cause.

 

[xeliex]

Hang in.

I was there in 2019
Funny that my symptoms got worse when I was in the Josh and Jeanne Rubin program, and I had to drop it. They were helping but symptoms got worse.

Foolish doctors wanted me to be on ssris. A smart doctor decided to give me an antiparasite medication and it helped a little bit immediately. Then I kept improving slowly over time. Things that helped include vitamin D, thyroid medications, basic short-term meditation, oysters and liver, orange juice, B complex by pure encapsulations, progesterone, and mostly cyproheptadine which helped a lot.

Although I relapse sometimes, the above always helps me.

What didn't help was magnesium, copper, low histamine diets, and mineral complexes.

 

[Logan-]

an antiparasite medication

Could you share its name? I am curious.

 

[xeliex]

Could you share its name? I am curious.

Albendazole

 

[Logan-]

Albendazole

Has it caused nausea and reduced appetite? These drugs increase c. diff risk, so be careful if you are still using it and wasn’t aware of this risk.

 

[xeliex]

used it once - I forgot how but used 2 packages - no negative effects

 

[rzero]

The severity of copper deficiency in rats is determined by the type of dietary carbohydrate - PubMed

The purpose of this investigation was to study the interaction between copper and dietary carbohydrates on clinical and enzymatic indices associated with copper deficiency. Copper deficiency was produced in rats by feeding diets adequate in all nutrients including selenium and chromium, but...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Fructose has often been argued to inhibit copper much more than zinc.

Also that whole copper revolution thing is a scam, the guy who founded it has fled and hasnt made a video since, a lot of people got banned on that group for calling him out, saying that their health was damaged. I do sadly think that low copper in the serum probably just means you have a sick liver and adrenals tbh

I just joined this group. Looks like the founder posted yesterday. One thing I saw searching the group for "hair" was that several people began losing hair after starting the protocol...

 

[PeterSN]

I just joined this group. Looks like the founder posted yesterday. One thing I saw searching the group for "hair" was that several people began losing hair after starting the protocol...

Makes sense tbh, since copper supplementstion could destroy the liver causing the adrenals to over activate and then causing hairloss from there

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

So I'm sure a lot of people remember me from a year ago, where I said I was going to die, and posted a thread on here with the title 'I'm Going To Die.'

I was mainly complaining about shortness of breath, PVCs and also some histamine issues, such as skin flushing, watery eyes and itchy skin. Sadly these symptoms have not left me, and some days i still feel like im going to die, I feel hypoxic and cant do normal things anymore. I can only exercise so much to the point after that my body will feel like its shutting down and all my symptoms will get worse, more heart palpitations, SOB and red hands and feet and bloating.

I started losing hope a couple of months ago until i switched my diet, to mainly fruitarian, quitting starch all together, where I also decreased fat substantially and that seemed to help with my red feet and bloating a bit. Unfortunately my symptoms are still here, just ever so slightly improved from a year ago. I still cant do normal things and have issues tolerating any kind of stress at all.

I noticed the switch in my diet was giving me higher copper and much lower zinc than i would normally get. Then it occured to me that most high zinc foods made me considerably worse, muscle meat, oysters, hard cheeses.. I started to look into copper and if I could be deficient in it. I found out that zinc antagonizes copper, apprently vitamin c does this too but to a lesser degree.

I have noticed that eating anything in general makes me more anxious, but i feel like that could just be the bloating increasing my heart rate, and then the hypoxic symptoms coming after that.
I also had my MCV level tested multiple times throughout this hellish journey, and found them to be low or bordering low on every blood test. (MCV tests the volume of each blood cell on average in the blood stream)

I then came across histamine intolerence and copper deficiency being a possible cause, as its one of the main cofactors for DAO or Diaminoxidase, which is an enzyme that breaks down histamine. I have had high histamine level symtoms since the beginning of these symptoms.

After this I came to know that copper deficiency can cause blood cells to be immature,and as a consequence be inefficient in carrying oxygen around the body, this also lowers its MCV level, which was present in all my blood tests.

I also notcied I was and still am waking up with numb hands and feet, which is indictive of a neuropathy. I realized that copper deficiency could be behind this too, as it can cause myleaneuorthpathy, which is basically diabetitic neuropathy, but caused from not enough copper.

I eventually got fed up with feeling like im going to die every day, so i got a copper blood test, where they tested my copper, zinc, iron and a bunch of other things. Most of the things came back normal and expected inclduing my zinc and iron, but.....

MY COPPER WAS OFF THE CHARTS LOW. I found my copper to be well below the reference range, even though its only a serum score, it makes so much sense to explain all my symptoms, and maybe if got more tests to make sure i actually am copper deficient i nthe tissues too, i could go about fixing it and possibly fix all these health issues i have been dealing with as well.

I suffered with an extreme case of histamine intolerance, maybe my whole life even, until a few years ago when I discovered my root cause was fluoride. I also had numb limbs in the middle of the night, mostly my arms, but on vacation when I was eating more seafood it would be my leg too. I cut out all canned tuna, and don’t eat sushi regularly anymore and got myself a gravity filter, which I also make my ice cubes with. I had to change my mattress and don’t use fluoride toothpaste and got rid of a lot of clothes that I was sleeping and working in to 100% cotton, not from China. I also cut out all supplements and all of my issues slowly went away. I had so many strange issues from histamine intolerance, like angiodema, a horrible arm rash that came and went according to what I ingested, sudden and without a hint of nausea, nonstop vomiting, insomnia, and the list goes on and on. I have no medical issues now, when I use to be the one everyone felt sorry for.

 

[rzero]

Makes sense tbh, since copper supplementstion could destroy the liver causing the adrenals to over activate and then causing hairloss from there

Perhaps. Also, iodine is recommended as part of the protocol. Hommel says he takes about 100mg/day. If most are doing this it makes it hard or impossible to isolate the effects of the copper.

 

[PeterSN]

Perhaps. Also, iodine is recommended as part of the protocol. Hommel says he takes about 100mg/day. If most are doing this it makes it hard or impossible to isolate the effects of the copper.

yes that is true, and ray peat did say in the past that iodine supplementation was bad for the thyroid. Im not saying copper supplementation is bad, im just saying Hommel's way of blaitently saying that everyone is copper deficient, and then telling everyone to supplement copper is not intelligent in my own opinion. They should at least get some thorough investigation through blood work, mixed with hair analysis, copper urine testing, looking at other minerals in relation to copper, etc..

 

[youngsinatra]

yes that is true, and ray peat did say in the past that iodine supplementation was bad for the thyroid. Im not saying copper supplementation is bad, im just saying Hommel's way of blaitently saying that everyone is copper deficient, and then telling everyone to supplement copper is not intelligent in my own opinion. They should at least get some thorough investigation through blood work, mixed with hair analysis, copper urine testing, looking at other minerals in relation to copper, etc..

Exactly. I have chatted with a handful of people that got kicked out from his Facebook group, because they posted that they got seriously harmed by his ideas and his protocol.

I got banned because I recommended a basic medical philosophy of „first do no harm“ and „test, assess, adress and retest“. I warned people that posted their extremely high serum copper labs, that they need to stop, whereas his followers said that they need even more copper..

J. Hommel is unwilling to get blood tests done. I mean, if I would be so confident in my approach (and in the safety of it) I‘d try to make a semi-scientific (N=1) ground for it. (with regular blood work, before and after, ultrasound of the organs etc.)

 

[rzero]

I started taking 10mg via copper sulfate solution about 12 days ago, mostly as an experiment.

I've done several periods of high-dose vitamin C over the course of my life, which I hear depletes copper. I started going gray when I was 18. I wouldn't be surprised if I was deficient.

I had upped the dose to 20mg for a few days, but I felt "off" mentally and physically, so I took a day off and today I'm back to 10mg.

Apparently some studies say this is a "safe" dose, but I'm being cautious and have no plans on trying to "push through" anything that doesn't feel right. It's unfortunate that people develop beliefs about supplements that cause them to ignore feedback from their bodies.

Though I haven't looked into the research personally, it does seem that copper supplementation is under-studied if nothing else.

 

[pondering]

I started taking 10mg via copper sulfate solution about 12 days ago, mostly as an experiment.

I've done several periods of high-dose vitamin C over the course of my life, which I hear depletes copper. I started going gray when I was 18. I wouldn't be surprised if I was deficient.

I had upped the dose to 20mg for a few days, but I felt "off" mentally and physically, so I took a day off and today I'm back to 10mg.

Apparently some studies say this is a "safe" dose, but I'm being cautious and have no plans on trying to "push through" anything that doesn't feel right. It's unfortunate that people develop beliefs about supplements that cause them to ignore feedback from their bodies.

Though I haven't looked into the research personally, it does seem that copper supplementation is under-studied if nothing else.

10mg seems high since the RDA is about 1mg/day. 1-2mg of copper doesn’t seem that hard to get from food. But I know everyone’s body is different. And do understand that deficiency can require larger doses. Having caused myself issues with high dose supplementation, not of copper, but regardless I’m extra cautious now. The body is always trying to maintain balance, so high doses of any one thing can throw off the others.

Iron is also implicated in the tyrosine pathway for melanin, as are folate, B2, B3, vitamin C, zinc, magnesium, and B6. My understanding is that zinc, iron, & copper antagonize each other. I’ve also read that high doses of metals require more vitamin c, which makes it a weird circular situation if it was high dose vit c that created a copper deficiency for you. In any case, it is good that you are listening to your body.

 

[PeterSN]

I started taking 10mg via copper sulfate solution about 12 days ago, mostly as an experiment.

I've done several periods of high-dose vitamin C over the course of my life, which I hear depletes copper. I started going gray when I was 18. I wouldn't be surprised if I was deficient.

I had upped the dose to 20mg for a few days, but I felt "off" mentally and physically, so I took a day off and today I'm back to 10mg.

Apparently some studies say this is a "safe" dose, but I'm being cautious and have no plans on trying to "push through" anything that doesn't feel right. It's unfortunate that people develop beliefs about supplements that cause them to ignore feedback from their bodies.

Though I haven't looked into the research personally, it does seem that copper supplementation is under-studied if nothing else.

Chris Masterjohn PhD, says its best to be around 3 mg copper per day, but i agree, that you should dial in how you are feeling, and possibly getting some blood tests too

 

[Ben.]

I’ve been supplementing with copper, manganese, zinc, selenium and lithium and I think I have had some major improvements in health.

i am curious ... how do you take these? dosages? form? do you take them daily?

trace minerals unlike vitamins always seem to have profound effects on me and are imo very underrated in the healthsphere with maybe the exception of zinc.