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Copper / Zinc Ratio

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by Motif, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Motif

    Motif Member

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    My copper is always in a deficiency.

    Zinc often very low too. Sometimes I was supplementing zinc - paused a week with it -got a blood test and still was in deficiency.


    I don't know if I should take copper only or some zinc too?

    And what ratio? My scalp itching gets so much better when I take 3x 3 mg copper over the day.
     
  2. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Take both in a 15-20:1 ratio
     
  3. OP
    Motif

    Motif Member

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    With 9mg copper this would be a lot zinc
     
  4. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Who takes 9mg of copper?
     
  5. OP
    Motif

    Motif Member

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    I do. It helps with the itching from my histamine intolerance or almost eliminates it.
     
  6. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Well, that's a lot. You can just take Cyproheptadine instead, or change your diet.
     
  7. OP
    Motif

    Motif Member

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    Diet change does not work. If I would stick to 5 different foods it would , but that's not possible for me.


    I started cypro yesterday. Today the itching came through. I took some copper , manganese and chromium and the itching is gone now
     
  8. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    How much cypro are you taking, and why isn't a diet change possible for you?

    Also, you can try second generation anti-histamines if Cyproheptadine isn't stopping the itching for some reason.
     
  9. OP
    Motif

    Motif Member

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    I tried Ceterizine and loratadine . Didn't work.

    I took 2 mg cypro.


    My diet is changed, but the itching only disappears completely when I stick to 5 foods and that's no option.
     
  10. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    That's weird.

    You don't need to stick to 5 foods. Just cut out all carbs that are not sugar, and dairy. Then you slowly reintroduce vegetables and fruits, then starches. That's how you find out your allergy, and take it slow because t takes days, sometimes weeks for a response to kick in.

    I've personally been living on a diet of Haribo, beef, chicken, seafood, coffee, apples, broccoli, mushroom, and sugar, and never felt better.
     
  11. OP
    Motif

    Motif Member

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    I did very strict exception diets and that's how I found out that there's just 5 foods I don't get symptoms from.

    Before that I was on all kinds of diets. No dairy, gluten, just chicken and vegetables etc etc etc.
    i tried different diets over 8 years now
     
  12. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Then unless you're on a glucocorticoid regimen, there is not much you can do. Drugs are a poor choice to mask allergenic protein.
     
  13. OP
    Motif

    Motif Member

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    Copper manganese chromium help like I said.
     
  14. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    Did you try green tea and vitamin E?
     
  15. zewe

    zewe Member

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    Zinc Depletion And Histamine Intolerance
    [​IMG]

    Zinc depletion is linked to histamine related itching, mast cells releasing more histamine into the bloodstream, and a whole host of other conditions. You’ll notice from the featured photo that many high zinc foods are high histamine. Below you’ll find a list of low/medium histamine foods. All references always at the bottom of the post.

    I’ve spent the last few years writing about the importance of supporting the body overall, rather than simply eliminating sources of histamine in foods. The latter results in orthorexia, which is a type of eating disorder where foods are demonised, and also in malnutrition. I suffered both myself and personally have encountered hundreds of readers with both issues.

    When I read studies like the one that inspired this post, on how researchers solved mystery itching that was plaguing dialysis patients, it spurs a renewed drive to really make sure we’re all on track. The short and long of it is that they found that zinc depleted patients had histamine release during treatment. Supplementing zinc resulted in the resolution of the itching during treatment.

    Other researchers found that zinc was able to mediate histamine release caused by a chemical trigger, and prevent asthmatic symptoms.

    Please remember to consult with someone before starting any kind of nutritional supplement. Copper deficiency is not uncommon when increasing zinc alone, and should be taken into account.

    A key component to getting the body back on track is to optimise our intake of nutrients whose lack drives up histamine levels and inflammation as a whole. I took too many years to do this myself and ended up in a fine mess of being down to just a handful of foods
    (read my post “Once up on a time we all reacted to foods”).

    Figuring Out Nutritional Priorities Overall
    You could either shell out for testing yourself by finding a functional medicine doctor to order the tests, or just share with your GP that you’ve been eating a restricted diet and hopefully get them on a national health service or private insurance. When strapped for cash, I used a nutrient and calorie tracking app (Fitday) to track my intake over a month. There’s no use stressing daily intake, that’s just way too intense, just checking overall monthly intake is what I did.

    [​IMG]Zinc Deficiency Symptoms
    Brain fog

    Immune system dysfunction

    Allergies/food intolerance

    Hair loss

    Intestinal permeability/leaky gut

    Rashes/acne

    Factors Affecting Zinc Absorption
    Decrease bioavailability

    • Phytate in cereals, corn, rice, lentils (germination/sprouting reduces this)
    • Iron supplements (should not be taken at the same time as zinc)
    • Casein in dairy
    Increase bioavailability

    • Methionine
    • Animal based protein
    Low/Medium Histamine Zinc Foods
    READ THRU THE FOLLOWING TO COPPER METABOLISM
    AND HIGH LEVELS OF OXIDATIVE STRESS :

    Histamine: Mast Cell Disorder or Methylation Imbalance?
     
  16. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark Member

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    I am still trying to learn and understand about these two important minerals, but what does anyone think about this statement from Robbins, and does he know what he is talking about? "The BIGGEST problem with "Zinc supplements" is that they TRIGGER the synthesis of Metallothionein (MT) protein that BINDS UP Copper 1,000X GREATER than Zinc... Effectively, you SHUT DOWN the body's ability to make Ferroxidase enzyme. That is a METABOLIC DISASTER that MOST practitioners and Internet sites are SILENT about... You might ask them WHY?!?... Please understand, Ferroxidase is the MASTER Anti-Oxidant Enzyme that REGULATES Iron status & homeostasis..." Morley Robbins.
     
  17. MrSmart

    MrSmart Member

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    MT is released both during copper excess and deficiency, as a homeostasis mechanism independent of zinc status, for protection against toxicity in the former and to prevent its excretion and substitute its role in the latter.
     
  18. OP
    Motif

    Motif Member

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    I don't think I can tolerate green tea.

    I'm taking E right now. Where is the connection to histamine ?
     
  19. zewe

    zewe Member

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    SNIPS From: [bold and italics are mine]
    https://suzycohen.com/articles/copper-deficiency-causes-hypertension-high-cholesterol/

    If you have iron deficiency anemia that doesn’t respond to iron supplementation, and you’re ferritin remains suppressed, you might be copper deficient. You need iron to make hemoglobin, the main component of red blood cells and you cannot absorb iron without copper. Long story short, copper deficiency is sometimes at the heart of resistant iron deficiency anemia. An “RBC copper” blood test can reveal this. I am a stickler about your test being RBC (or even WBC) because a common mistake is often made by physicians. They often measure “serum” or “plasma” levels. Who cares what is out there? Neither the serum or the plasma portion of your blood contains any clotting factors or red blood cells. Evaluating copper in the plasma or serum doesn’t give you an indication of what’s inside the cell, where the clotting factors are. That’s what you NEED to know. If you’re spending money for your lab test, you have to do it properly.

    Serum copper reflects an inflammatory condition in the body (which most people have). This inflammation could be due to an autoimmune disease, arthritis, cancer, thyroid imbalances, gastrointestinal disorders, anything. This elevated serum copper could be happening while you have a full-blown deficiency inside your cells. Even your heart cells (heart muscle). You may be deficient in the most important part of your body, your cells but that plasma copper will come back as normal or even high. This is why proper testing matters.

    if you’re copper is high in your serum, and deficient in your cells (like… your RBC copper is low).
    So this means that the copper is present (and maybe high) in your body but you’re not utilizing it well… hence, it’s not going into the cell. This occurs frequently with people because the copper must be BOUND to a protein and toted around your body. It is bound to a protein that we call a “transporter.”

    There are two main copper-binding proteins:
    Ceruloplasmin
    Metallothionein

    Copper must be bound and transported within the body using one of these proteins. If you are deficient in either, you may have high copper in the plasma or serum, and low copper in your cells.

    Now, one more thing to answer some of your questions below in the thread. If your transport proteins are low, the copper will build up in the brain, liver and reproductive organs. You don’t want to randomly supplement. You want to evaluate levels of these biomarkers, and look at clinical picture. Remember what I said above, high copper is seen in many women with reproductive cancers. Copper toxicity is something to look out for, so don’t go randomly supplementing just because you think you are deficient. Test, it’s not that hard, then you know for sure.

    READ FULL ARTICLE:
    https://suzycohen.com/articles/copper-deficiency-causes-hypertension-high-cholesterol/
     
  20. OP
    Motif

    Motif Member

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    @zewe

    Thanks.
    I really just don't know what to do.

    Supplement zinc and copper?
     
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