Zinc Causing Extreme Reactions. Help

[Razvan]

Copper binds with high affinity to metallothionein within the enterocytes leading to its excretion through the intestinal tract. Myeloneuropathy due to copper deficiency has been reported following treatment of Wilson disease with chelation and zinc.
Iron it's everywhere and depletes copper like crazy. Since copper gets depleted from a lot more sources it's more suscitible to deficiency.

 

[Razvan]

Definitely a non-existent problem here in the USA since vegetable, starch, and fruit consumption is so common. I know Eastern europeans are heavy animal food eaters and can sometimes have diets low in copper. But usually they all consume potatoes frequently, maybe its not the case in your area. Grey hair can also be from B-vitamins deficiencies if your food choices are imbalanced.

I don't think there is need of some kind of contemplation of the habits of eating in the USA. In Eastern europe there isn't iron fortification as in USA.
I don't think any minerals should be supplemented apart from the bicarbonate forms of calcium and magnesium. Especially zinc as i said.

 

[redsun]

I don't think there is need of some kind of contemplation of the habits of eating in the USA. In Eastern europe there isn't iron fortification as in USA.
I don't think any minerals should be supplemented apart from the bicarbonate forms of calcium and magnesium. Especially zinc as i said.

I don't need to contemplate it lol I live here I know exactly what is eaten here and I have eastern european roots. Potatoes, fruit, vegetables, other starches are eaten heavily (especially potatoes and fruits). They eat pretty plant-based here in the USA, thus copper lack is nonexistent. This is why we have almost virtually no studies and research on copper deficiency in humans. Unbelievably rare. Iron fortification doesn't cause copper deficiency. Iron overload maybe mimic copper deficiency but its not. There are known risk factors making zinc deficiency more likely. A good example is digestive disorders which can compromise absorption.

 

[GenericName86]

I don't need to contemplate it lol I live here I know exactly what is eaten here and I have eastern european roots. Potatoes, fruit, vegetables, other starches are eaten heavily (especially potatoes and fruits). They eat pretty plant-based here in the USA, thus copper lack is nonexistent. This is why we have almost virtually no studies and research on copper deficiency in humans. Unbelievably rare. Iron fortification doesn't cause copper deficiency. Iron overload maybe mimic copper deficiency but its not. There are known risk factors making zinc deficiency more likely. A good example is digestive disorders which can compromise absorption.

Poor Vit D3 status can impact zinc as well can't it? I read a abstract of a study on d3 a while ago and it mentioned it's importance with the zinc transporter, also mentioned it has an impact on ceruloplasmin.

 

[Razvan]

I don't need to contemplate it lol I live here I know exactly what is eaten here and I have eastern european roots. Potatoes, fruit, vegetables, other starches are eaten heavily (especially potatoes and fruits). They eat pretty plant-based here in the USA, thus copper lack is nonexistent. This is why we have almost virtually no studies and research on copper deficiency in humans. Unbelievably rare. Iron fortification doesn't cause copper deficiency. Iron overload maybe mimic copper deficiency but its not. There are known risk factors making zinc deficiency more likely. A good example is digestive disorders which can compromise absorption.

Copper it's absorbed from digestion exactly like zinc so as for digestive disorders it's the same for both minerals. I've seen copper deficiency even eating plant based. I'm not advocating plant based.

Copper deficiency may be a leading cause of ischaemic heart disease

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Razvan]

Objective: To determine whether changes in brain biometals in Alzheimer disease (AD) and in normal brain tissue are tandemly associated with amyloid β-peptide (Aβ) burden and dementia severity.

Methods: The authors measured zinc, copper, iron, manganese, and aluminum and Aβ levels in postmortem neocortical tissue from patients with AD (n = 10), normal age-matched control subjects (n = 14), patients with schizophrenia (n = 26), and patients with schizophrenia with amyloid (n = 8). Severity of cognitive impairment was assessed with the Clinical Dementia Rating Scale (CDR).

Results: There was a significant, more than twofold, increase of tissue zinc in the AD-affected cortex compared with the other groups. Zinc levels increased with tissue amyloid levels. Zinc levels were significantly elevated in the most severely demented cases (CDR 4 to 5) and in cases that had an amyloid burden greater than 8 plaques/mm2. Levels of other metals did not differ between groups.

Conclusions: Brain zinc accumulation is a prominent feature of advanced Alzheimer disease (AD) and is biochemically linked to brain amyloid β-peptide accumulation and dementia severity in AD.


Elevated cortical zinc in Alzheimer disease
D Religa, D Strozyk, RA Cherny, I Volitakis, V Haroutunian, B Winblad, J Naslund, AI Bush
Neurology 67 (1), 69-75, 2006

 

[Perry Staltic]

Objective: To determine whether changes in brain biometals in Alzheimer disease (AD) and in normal brain tissue are tandemly associated with amyloid β-peptide (Aβ) burden and dementia severity.

Methods: The authors measured zinc, copper, iron, manganese, and aluminum and Aβ levels in postmortem neocortical tissue from patients with AD (n = 10), normal age-matched control subjects (n = 14), patients with schizophrenia (n = 26), and patients with schizophrenia with amyloid (n = 8). Severity of cognitive impairment was assessed with the Clinical Dementia Rating Scale (CDR).

Results: There was a significant, more than twofold, increase of tissue zinc in the AD-affected cortex compared with the other groups. Zinc levels increased with tissue amyloid levels. Zinc levels were significantly elevated in the most severely demented cases (CDR 4 to 5) and in cases that had an amyloid burden greater than 8 plaques/mm2. Levels of other metals did not differ between groups.

Conclusions: Brain zinc accumulation is a prominent feature of advanced Alzheimer disease (AD) and is biochemically linked to brain amyloid β-peptide accumulation and dementia severity in AD.


Elevated cortical zinc in Alzheimer disease
D Religa, D Strozyk, RA Cherny, I Volitakis, V Haroutunian, B Winblad, J Naslund, AI Bush
Neurology 67 (1), 69-75, 2006

Patients with schizophrenia are considered normal? What kind of study is that? They didn't find anomalous aluminum or manganese, but you can find studies that show those.

 

[Razvan]

Patients with schizophrenia are considered normal? What kind of study is that? They didn't find anomalous aluminum or manganese, but you can find studies that show those.

Zinc may have an additional role in causing death in at least some neurons damaged by seizure activity and be involved in the sprouting phenomenon which may give rise to recurrent seizure propagation in the hippocampus. In Alzheimer's disease, zinc has been shown to aggregate beta-amyloid, a form which is potentially neurotoxic. The zinc-dependent transcription factors NF-kappa B and Sp1 bind to the promoter region of the amyloid precursor protein (APP) gene. Zinc also inhibits enzymes which degrade APP to nonamyloidogenic peptides and which degrade the soluble form of beta-amyloid.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Zinc may have an additional role in causing death in at least some neurons damaged by seizure activity and be involved in the sprouting phenomenon which may give rise to recurrent seizure propagation in the hippocampus. In Alzheimer's disease, zinc has been shown to aggregate beta-amyloid, a form which is potentially neurotoxic. The zinc-dependent transcription factors NF-kappa B and Sp1 bind to the promoter region of the amyloid precursor protein (APP) gene. Zinc also inhibits enzymes which degrade APP to nonamyloidogenic peptides and which degrade the soluble form of beta-amyloid.

They should have used healthy, ie, not schizophrenic, for controls. Zinc may be higher in healthy people.

 

[Razvan]

Zinc is better retained than copper for example.Severe deficiency is rare but mild is common.I think specialists (such as exclusive zinc researchers) have a tendency to prove that their investment is worth, so they can exaggerate on the needs and prevalence of deficiencies.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Zinc is better retained than copper for example.Severe deficiency is rare but mild is common.I think specialists (such as exclusive zinc researchers) have a tendency to prove that their investment is worth, so they can exaggerate on the needs and prevalence of deficiencies.

Zinc is depleted by numerous pharmaceuticals. Maybe not a big problem in Romania, but it certainly is in the US.

 

[Razvan]

Zinc is better retained than copper for example.Severe deficiency is rare but mild is common.I think specialists (such as exclusive zinc researchers) have a tendency to prove that their investment is worth, so they can exaggerate on the needs and prevalence of deficiencies.

Dietary Zinc Intake and Its Association with Metabolic Syndrome Indicators among Chinese Adults: An Analysis of the China Nutritional Transition Cohort Survey 2015

The dietary zinc consumed in Chinese households has decreased over the past decade. However, the national dietary zinc intake in the last five years has seldom been investigated. Using data from 12,028 participants 18 to 64 years old (52.9% male) in the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Exemple of investment worth like this stupid study.

 

[Razvan]

Zinc is depleted by numerous pharmaceuticals. Maybe not a big problem in Romania, but it certainly is in the US.

Trust me, here it's full of people with copper deficiency, I've seen my dad reversing some graying hairs by adding fruits and foods high in copper and lowering iron. You can say that it is a coincidence but i don't think so from my experience with people.

 

[Razvan]

Zinc is depleted by numerous pharmaceuticals. Maybe not a big problem in Romania, but it certainly is in the US.

Copper it's much more depleted from pharmaceuticals and from surgical interventions on the stomach.

 

[Razvan]

"A 72-year-old female with known phlebotomy-dependent hemochromatosis, pernicious anemia, hypertension, hypothyroidism, and bipolar disorder presented with progressive generalized weakness, lower extremity numbness, tingling, abnormal balance, and a 26-lb weight loss over several months. Her family history was significant for colon cancer in paternal grandfather, and pancreatic and breast cancer in her sisters. She lived alone, smoked cigarettes, but denied alcohol consumption. Her medications included acetaminophen, aspirin, carbamazepine, cyanocobalamin, darbepoetin alfa, fluticasone nasal spray, levothyroxine, lisinopril, magnesium hydroxide, meclizine, metoprolol tartrate, pantoprazole, fluoxetine, quetiapine, and multivitamins. Physical examination revealed pallor, lower extremity hyporeflexia, and sensory ataxia.

Laboratory values checked at the time of presentation are displayed in Table 1. Her complete metabolic panel was essentially unremarkable. Bone marrow biopsy showed myelodysplasia with no megaloblasts, with normal iron stains. Esophagogastroduodenoscopy and colonoscopy showed normal findings.
Her copper level was undetectable at <5 (reference range 70–125 µg/dL). She was given intravenous followed by oral copper supplementation. Her neurological symptoms started to alleviate in 5–6 months after copper supplementation but did not resolve completely."
I don't think she ate much meat since from the "USA" :))

 

[Perry Staltic]

Trust me, here it's full of people with copper deficiency, I've seen my dad reversing some graying hairs by adding fruits and foods high in copper and lowering iron. You can say that it is a coincidence but i don't think so from my experience with people.

I'm not picking sides in a pissing match between Cu and Zn, but it looks like there are more drugs that deplete Zn than there are drugs that deplete Cu.

Drugs that Deplete: Copper | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

www.stlukes-stl.com

Drugs that Deplete: Zinc | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

 

[Razvan]

"A 72-year-old female with known phlebotomy-dependent hemochromatosis, pernicious anemia, hypertension, hypothyroidism, and bipolar disorder presented with progressive generalized weakness, lower extremity numbness, tingling, abnormal balance, and a 26-lb weight loss over several months. Her family history was significant for colon cancer in paternal grandfather, and pancreatic and breast cancer in her sisters. She lived alone, smoked cigarettes, but denied alcohol consumption. Her medications included acetaminophen, aspirin, carbamazepine, cyanocobalamin, darbepoetin alfa, fluticasone nasal spray, levothyroxine, lisinopril, magnesium hydroxide, meclizine, metoprolol tartrate, pantoprazole, fluoxetine, quetiapine, and multivitamins. Physical examination revealed pallor, lower extremity hyporeflexia, and sensory ataxia.

Laboratory values checked at the time of presentation are displayed in Table 1. Her complete metabolic panel was essentially unremarkable. Bone marrow biopsy showed myelodysplasia with no megaloblasts, with normal iron stains. Esophagogastroduodenoscopy and colonoscopy showed normal findings.
Her copper level was undetectable at <5 (reference range 70–125 µg/dL). She was given intravenous followed by oral copper supplementation. Her neurological symptoms started to alleviate in 5–6 months after copper supplementation but did not resolve completely."
I don't think she ate much meat since from the "USA" :))

[PDF] An Exposure-Response Curve for Copper Excess and Deficiency | Semantic Scholar

There is a need to define exposure-response curves for both Cu excess and deficiency to assist in determining the acceptable range of oral intake and a generalized linear model for ordinal data was used to estimate the probability of response associated with dose, duration and severity. There is...

www.semanticscholar.org

As you can study and understand from this study, probably the copper requirements are higher than it's recommended as I've seen people taking 4g and still having benefits.

[PDF] An Exposure-Response Curve for Copper Excess and Deficiency | Semantic Scholar

There is a need to define exposure-response curves for both Cu excess and deficiency to assist in determining the acceptable range of oral intake and a generalized linear model for ordinal data was used to estimate the probability of response associated with dose, duration and severity. There is...

www.semanticscholar.org

This can explain the experiences of a lot of people.

 

[Razvan]

I'm not picking sides in a pissing match between Cu and Zn, but it looks like there are more drugs that deplete Zn than there are drugs that deplete Cu.

Drugs that Deplete: Copper | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

www.stlukes-stl.com

Drugs that Deplete: Zinc | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

The links don't work but just from looking at it without opening it i can see that the depletion just can't be expected and it is a general ideology.

 

[Razvan]

I'm not picking sides in a pissing match between Cu and Zn, but it looks like there are more drugs that deplete Zn than there are drugs that deplete Cu.

Drugs that Deplete: Copper | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

www.stlukes-stl.com

Drugs that Deplete: Zinc | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev.nu.08.070188.001315

"Protein and dietary fiber content appear to diminish the availability of Cu (78). High dietary intake of ascorbic acid has also been shown to lower serum ceruloplasmin and Cu levels (27). A number of studies have examined the interrelationship between fructose and Cu status. The consensus is that fructose increases the requirement for Cu, rather than interfering with its absorption. Red cell superoxide dismutase activity was significantly reduced by the high fructose intake, whereas ceruloplasmin levels and serum Cu were not decreased (76)."

 

[Razvan]

I'm not picking sides in a pissing match between Cu and Zn, but it looks like there are more drugs that deplete Zn than there are drugs that deplete Cu.

Drugs that Deplete: Copper | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

www.stlukes-stl.com

Drugs that Deplete: Zinc | Complementary and Alternative Medicine | St. Luke's Hospital

Studies of a naturally occurring sulfur-induced copper deficiency in Przewalski’s gazelles

The Przewalski’s gazelles in the Hudong area of the Qinghai Lake area in China were affected by an ailment characterized by pica, emaciation, dyskinesia, loss of appetite, and anemia. Concentrations of copper (Cu) in soil and forage from affected ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also sulphur depletes copper pretty fast.