Help. I Am Taking Copper And Still Have Deficiency!

Discussion in 'Blood Work, Labs' started by Lucas, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. OP
    Lucas

    Lucas Member

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    The more copper suplement i take the more serum copper and ceruloplasmin deficient i get
     
  2. bond

    bond Member

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    It basically continued for 2-3 weeks total, after that I'm back to basics.
    I either depleted the copper(I had eaten about 150g of beef liver before my temporary success) or some other nutrient - currently still investigating my logs to see which one was it - going to try some niacin as I had this at 50mg for about a month before the good 2 weeks. I'm homo on both popular COMT SNPs(i.e. slow COMT) and niacin is believed to help clear SAH which blocks COMT.
    I'm mad at myself for not taking a blood test at that time to see how it would relate to the improvement of well being.
    Recent test I took in December didn't show anything interesting - both Cu and Zn were mid range, Cp was at 24 yielding unbound Cu at about 40%.
    Neutrophils were highest I ever measured in my life which was a bit motivating but I also trialed a month of advanced TRS before that which may have skewed results a bit.

    Still continuing with experiments and will post whenever I have some progress or failure.
     
  3. robertf

    robertf Member

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    Get thee a hair mineral test. Blood tests are meh.
     
  4. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    Then your body is keeping ceruloplasmin low for a reason.

    Is it possible you have calcium/magnesium metabolism issues? Definitely lay off the copper for now!
     
  5. Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    @Lucas did you ever figure out the issue? To me it sounds possible that you have Wilson's disease, but you should get a 24 hour urine test and check for Kayser Fleischer rings in your eyes. I am experiencing similar issues. My Ceruloplasmin level is 0.19 g/L, my total copper was in the low-normal reference range. My symptoms are similar to what you guys experience –– intermittent right upper quadrant pain (so I thought was liver), depression, dry/yellowish skin, some abdominal bloating, etc. So it sounds to me like Wilson's.

    Copper toxicity/deficiency seems very difficult to assess.

    I am trying to see an eye doctor and am trying to get tested for 24 hour urine/serum copper. But it is a struggle since I am in a third world remote country at the moment. Horrible timing. I will keep posting.
     
  6. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    eAT lIVER, MAYBE FOOD SOURCED COPPER IS BETTER ABSORBED
     
  7. Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    I have tried liver, shellfish, chocolate, mushrooms, etc. I don't want to risk consuming lots of liver if the issue is really toxicity.
     
  8. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark Member

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    You xould always give MitoSynergy a try: https://www.mitosynergy.com/
     
  9. Kyle Bigman

    Kyle Bigman Member

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    so if youre a carrier its impossible to raise up ceruloplasmin?
     
  10. bond

    bond Member

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    A quick update, I had another 2 good weeks when I felt 'normal' - motivation, energy, both mental, physical and exploratory, improved sleep.
    Prior to that I was on a slightly modified copper detox regimen - taking 25-30mg zinc before bed 5/7 days a week, MSM(1g), B6(50mg), TMG(500mg), dandelion tincture, lithium orotate, DIM, pregnenolone(20mg), niacin(100mg) 3 days per week.
    Stopped all supplements for a month and ate 100g beef liver(which made me quite stressed) and got sick(flu-like) the next day. Was sick for about 10 days, after that I got my good 2 weeks.
    Before my previous good weeks I also got sick, so I wonder if it has something to do with that and the immune system, but definetely copper is related too.
    This time however I got blood tests and my Cp was 34 for the first time since I've been measuring it(22-24 before) ! Neutrophils were also at an all-time high. Serum Zn and Cu were about 20 umol/l which is near the top of the range. Fibrinogen, hsCRP and ferritin were also a bit high, but serum Fe was lowish, so I'm wondering if the high Cp was an imflammatory response rather than my liver working properly... or both.
    My current diet is pretty high carb, coconut water(500ml) a day and some chocolate and fruit.
    Hope that helps someone.
     
  11. cinderella

    cinderella Member

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    I've recently asked Ray Peat whether a copper rich diet is sufficient to correct copper deficiency or would he recommend temporary copper supplementation as well.
    His reply:
    "Having shrimp, oysters, or other shellfish once or twice a week will correct a deficiency."
     
  12. cinderella

    cinderella Member

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    In case of impaired calcium metabolism, what would you recommend? More calcium perhaps?
     
  13. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    This is a really hard question to answer in specific terms, sorry. I wouldn't recommend more calcium, though. Calcium (and mineral metabolism issues in general) issues tend to come from liver issues and issues processing/storing a balance of fat solubles (and the resultant inflammatory issues) in my experience but it's really hard to find a balance.

    If you're going to try fat soluble vitamins I think it's better to start extremely low and just eat foods you enjoy, though not large amounts of sugar. By low I mean 100-400iu vitamin D and then some greens or sweet potatoes whenever you crave them for vitamin A.

    I do not know why but liver does not work as a vitamin A source for me, despite being high in retinol 'on paper'. I think the amounts of copper and B12 in liver and oysters is too high for a person with a weakened metabolism (and therefore weakened adrenals for mineral balance) to eat in large quantities, but maybe 20g or so a week is fine unless you really really crave it.

    If you're able to get sunshine on your torso (front and back) I'd recommend that too. It's not a popular view on this forum but I think large doses of fat soluble vitamins are more likely to cause acute health problems than to solve them.

    And to be clear; I'm not an expert and all my conclusions come from my own personal situation as a male. I'm reluctant to give too much direct advice because I've had many occasions in the past where I've felt confident only to reevaluate what I thought I knew at a later date!
     
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