Terrible Blood Results: Very Low Energy And Weak Immunity

[yerrag]

Damn. I wonder if even professional MDs interpret labs at that level. The ones I've seen didn't.

It helps that I have self-treated myself successfully on the blood sugar regulation front. I don't think doctors can go deeply on a case as they have too much breadth to cover with so many patients. So what they discover, if they ever do, is only surface level.

 

[Kingpinguin]

Yes, I will do that, thanks. I'm not that enthusiastic about it tho because I have taken it in the past and it didn't seem to help.

i would start something like 10k IU per day combined with ~400mg magnesium and do that for awhile.

 

[milkboi]

I hope this isn't too much for you to work with. I used to have low immunity and perhaps low energy as well. No one gave me a long list like I did you so I had no opportunity to get overwhelmed. I also didn't know where to begin but luckily over time I slowly was able to address each issue, not that it was by design. I had no idea of cortisol and its effects then, but worked on improving my blood sugar regulation and my health took a dramatic turn. One nit about this forum is that people tend to talk about the details too much, and jump to talking about cortisol but neglect focusing on blood sugar regulation. I believe that most of the time, you can gloss over the nitty gritty of cortisol and not even know what it does, and do well by just fixing your bllood sugar regulation. It's just like knowing you have enough supply of gasoline when driving a car. You rarely have to know about how the internal combustion engine works.

I eagerly awaited your post. Thanks a lot for the long and deep analysis! Ordered a Glucometer just now.

It would be good for you to check your thyroid using a TSH panel that includes the rT3, which is expensive, or to rely on getting the QTc in an ECG (which could be expensive if Germany is like the US, where an ECG can be done only with a cardiologist; unlike in the Philippines where I could get one easily for less than $8 by walk-in; The QTc has to equal or less than 440 msec). Another way is to get somebody to do an Achilles tendon reflex test on you, but this is a lost art so you can't expect doctors or physical therapists to know how to do it the right way; it's the cheapest method though, but I doubt that most people have either the patience or time or aptitude to go thru this; the neuro hammer is easily available through Amazon).

Are TSH and rT3 sufficient to get a good picture of thyroid status?

Your fasting blood sugar of 73 is rather low. Below 70, I would already feel hypoglycemic and I would be feeling low on energy. I would see a fasting blood sugar of 85-95 as ideal. It's a longer topic talking about addressing low blood sugar but suffice it to say that this has a lot to do with your low energy and low immunity. I cannot overemphasize the importance having blood sugar regulation, and this has to be one area you have to focus on.

Yes, I almost fainted after the blood was drawn. Chances are my blood sugar got even below 70. The nurse then offered me water. Fortunately I had some OJ on me, which made feel like myself again after a few minutes. It was a rather large amount of blood, and I had this phenomenon before. But no doubt, low blood sugar is an energy killer.

Lastly, you seem to have low blood volume. Your RBC, HgB, Hct are all consistently giving sign that is the case: RGB - 5.8 (4.2-4.9 optimal); HgB - 16.9 (14-15 optimal), and Hct - 0.50 (0.4-0.48). This may be caused by low serum albumin. Albumin attracts and holds on to the sodium ions, and sodium holds on to water. More albumin makes possible higher plasma and blood volume. It's possible albumin is being used as an anti-oxidant to neutralize spillover ROS from phagocytosis (to kill bacteria) and that the oxidized albumin is being excreted out in urine. This lowers your serum albumin and your blood volume. Is your urine foamy?

My urine is almost never foamy. When I take too many serotonin inhibiting/anti-clotting substances (Aspirin, Cypro, Vitamin E), my blood becomes too thin, so I make sure not to take too much of those. I still take Aspirin and Cypro daily, so I'm guessing my blood is more on the liquid side. Although I don't know if blood liquidity correlates perfectly with blood volume.

My sodium is low on the test, should I make sure to always have some salt with every meal?

Have you tested your blood sugar over a 5 hour period, starting with right before meal, and an hour after a meal, and every hour after until the 5hr mark? This gives you a good idea to assess your blood sugar control.

I'll do that tomorrow.

How do you feel after jogging for a kilometer? Are you sore all over from lactic acid? If you are, you're quick to build up lactic acid and this could either be due to low blood oxygen transport or hypoxemia or low tissue oxygenation, or poor glucose metabolism arising from low thyroid, or low thiamine, of even low cytochrome c oxidase, from lack of red light exposure.

Not a fan of cardio and I'm sure I will feel very fatigued after, but I'll try this as well to test for approximate lactic acid levels.
I only use my infrared light lamp on my face, because every thing else is pretty inconvenient. Probably not enough for system-wide positive effects on cytochrome c oxidase right? (could MB replace red light in that regard?) I supplement thiamine, both in my B complex and separately.
Do you think if there is a lack of thyroid hormone one does feel better immediately upon ingesting T3? Because I didn't.

The monocyte levels of 5.4% indicate the level of endotoxins produced by bacteria being killed by the innate immune system is still rather mild.

Yes, I would have thought so. Digestion is the one health issue I basically completely fixed for myself. Back in my high-fat days (and for a while on a Peaty diet to a lesser degree too), every time I would eat something I would get this extreme endotoxin reaction, getting sick to my stomach, being really confused, rapid heart beat and feeling like I needed to lay down. Also chronic diarrhea. All that doesn't happen anymore luckily.
But I know that you are thinking that endotoxin doesn't only have to come from the gut, but also from other infected tissue, right?

 

[milkboi]

i would start something like 10k IU per day combined with ~400mg magnesium and do that for awhile.

Alright, thanks. Can I spread out the Mag over the day for optimal absorption? I'll also take 5mg Vitamin K2 MK4 with it.

 

[Aad]

Increase your Vit D. levels mate, it will increase your testosterone levels (and energy levels.)

 

[Vinny]

The microbial aspect definitely needs to be looked at.

WBC at 6.4 shows some low-grade infection, as optimal range would be 4-6 (per Dr. Weatherby), but being at the low end would even be better.
Your neutrophil percentage at 77% is above optimal levels of 40-60%. There is some bacterial infection that causes more neutrophils to be marshalled. The innate immune system is doing extra work, where neutrophils kill bacteria using phagocytosis. Some spillover ROS could be destroying some adjacent tissues, which could cause inflammation, as indicated by high CRP levels (according to Dr. Tom Lewis, hsCRP above 0.6 points to inflammation). Your CRP is 1.53, which does not get you off the hook.

If you are chronically at a high level of low grade inflammation, it causes your innate immune system at a state of high alert all the time. This may help increase your body temperature, but it would not be enough for a fever to be registered. Thus, you could falsely think that your seemingly normal temperature is indicative of a normal thyroid.

It would be good for you to check your thyroid using a TSH panel that includes the rT3, which is expensive, or to rely on getting the QTc in an ECG (which could be expensive if Germany is like the US, where an ECG can be done only with a cardiologist; unlike in the Philippines where I could get one easily for less than $8 by walk-in; The QTc has to equal or less than 440 msec). Another way is to get somebody to do an Achilles tendon reflex test on you, but this is a lost art so you can't expect doctors or physical therapists to know how to do it the right way; it's the cheapest method though, but I doubt that most people have either the patience or time or aptitude to go thru this; the neuro hammer is easily available through Amazon).

I also doubt that your heart rate of 80 speaks to your having a good metabolism. It doesn't align with the fact that you have chronic fatigue syndrome, and that you have low energy. Perhaps your heart rate is high because your heart is inefficient in pumping blood. An ECG could be helpful in further assessing that. Even without an ECG, you can start to improve your vit D status, as that has an effect on your calcium balance. And calcium deficiency could really affect the ionic-driven pumping action of the heart.

Your fasting blood sugar of 73 is rather low. Below 70, I would already feel hypoglycemic and I would be feeling low on energy. I would see a fasting blood sugar of 85-95 as ideal. It's a longer topic talking about addressing low blood sugar but suffice it to say that this has a lot to do with your low energy and low immunity. I cannot overemphasize the importance having blood sugar regulation, and this has to be one area you have to focus on.

Related to this is that your SGPT is high at 43 (optimal is <30). You may have fatty liver, or excessive muscle breakdown. When low on sugar, muscle is broken down to form sugar through neoglucegenesis. Perhaps if you can improve your blood sugar control, this value can start to look better.

Lastly, you seem to have low blood volume. Your RBC, HgB, Hct are all consistently giving sign that is the case: RGB - 5.8 (4.2-4.9 optimal); HgB - 16.9 (14-15 optimal), and Hct - 0.50 (0.4-0.48). This may be caused by low serum albumin. Albumin attracts and holds on to the sodium ions, and sodium holds on to water. More albumin makes possible higher plasma and blood volume. It's possible albumin is being used as an anti-oxidant to neutralize spillover ROS from phagocytosis (to kill bacteria) and that the oxidized albumin is being excreted out in urine. This lowers your serum albumin and your blood volume. Is your urine foamy?

Have you tested your blood sugar over a 5 hour period, starting with right before meal, and an hour after a meal, and every hour after until the 5hr mark? This gives you a good idea to assess your blood sugar control.

How do you feel after jogging for a kilometer? Are you sore all over from lactic acid? If you are, you're quick to build up lactic acid and this could either be due to low blood oxygen transport or hypoxemia or low tissue oxygenation, or poor glucose metabolism arising from low thyroid, or low thiamine, of even low cytochrome c oxidase, from lack of red light exposure.

I hope this isn't too much for you to work with. I used to have low immunity and perhaps low energy as well. No one gave me a long list like I did you so I had no opportunity to get overwhelmed. I also didn't know where to begin but luckily over time I slowly was able to address each issue, not that it was by design. I had no idea of cortisol and its effects then, but worked on improving my blood sugar regulation and my health took a dramatic turn. One nit about this forum is that people tend to talk about the details too much, and jump to talking about cortisol but neglect focusing on blood sugar regulation. I believe that most of the time, you can gloss over the nitty gritty of cortisol and not even know what it does, and do well by just fixing your bllood sugar regulation. It's just like knowing you have enough supply of gasoline when driving a car. You rarely have to know about how the internal combustion engine works.



The monocyte levels of 5.4% indicate the level of endotoxins produced by bacteria being killed by the innate immune system is still rather mild.

Wow .....

 

[Kingpinguin]

Alright, thanks. Can I spread out the Mag over the day for optimal absorption? I'll also take 5mg Vitamin K2 MK4 with it.

Yeah sure. Magnesium absorption seems to increase when vitamin D is increased. At least my experience. When your body is magnesium saturated I think thats when you start experience loose stools. When ever I supplement vitamin D my threshold for loose stools on magnesium seems to double. I can easily take 800mg magnesium without having to hit the toilett. Which would be impossible otherwise. So my recommendation would be that to adjust your magnesium dosing so you feel comfortable while you supplement vitamin D.

please report back on your progress once you’ve been supplementing for awhile.

 

[Kunstruct]

Damn. I wonder if even professional MDs interpret labs at that level. The ones I've seen didn't.

I would say the same, yeah the ones I have seen don't do that.
Some care so little, they only look at the lab's top values or bottom values and say, let me see the ranges, well you are ok.
When in fact some of the results are questionably not good even if they are withing the range of the lab.

 

[yerrag]

Are TSH and rT3 sufficient to get a good picture of thyroid status?

Sorry, I meant the thyroid panel, not TSH panel. This includes TSH, T3 and T4.

Although I don't know if blood liquidity correlates perfectly with blood volume.

It doesn't.

Yes, I almost fainted after the blood was drawn. Chances are my blood sugar got even below 70. The nurse then offered me water. Fortunately I had some OJ on me, which made feel like myself again after a few minutes. It was a rather large amount of blood, and I had this phenomenon before. But no doubt, low blood sugar is an energy killer.

It may also be that you weren't used to seeing that much blood being drawn. I had that experience before, but I got used to it over time. I would close my eyes and just compose myself. It was standard for the phlebotomist to tell me to take a deep breath before he draws my blood. I think it's inane as it causes me to tense up further. I just ignore what he says and I just continue to breathe like nothing was happening.

My sodium is low on the test, should I make sure to always have some salt with every meal?

It doesn't hurt to increase salt, although I feel salting to taste, and not avoiding salt is enough. Taking a lot of salt imho doesn't help as in my case where I excrete some albumin in my urine (microalbuminuria) low serum albumin is the limiting factor in increasing blood volume and more salt intake doesn't help towards increasing blood volume.

I'll do that tomorrow.

Be sure to have some cotton and alcohol on hand to wipe over the pricked finger. Just had to say it although you likely would have thought of it.

Probably not enough for system-wide positive effects on cytochrome c oxidase right? (could MB replace red light in that regard?)

Not knowledgeable enough on MB in that regard. Perhaps someone else could chime in.

Yes, I would have thought so. Digestion is the one health issue I basically completely fixed for myself. Back in my high-fat days (and for a while on a Peaty diet to a lesser degree too), every time I would eat something I would get this extreme endotoxin reaction, getting sick to my stomach, being really confused, rapid heart beat and feeling like I needed to lay down. Also chronic diarrhea.

Some fats, especially coconut oil, have antibiotic effects and are affecting the gut biome? Or is the fat too much that not enough bile is emulsifying the fat enough and the fat goes to the colon and this cause the bowels to be loose? Maybe getting confused and having a rapid heart beat is due to low sugar on brain and on the red blood cells, as brain and red blood cells run on glucose? Just some guesses.

But I know that you are thinking that endotoxin doesn't only have to come from the gut, but also from other infected tissue, right?

The endotoxin would come from bacteria that's killed by our white blood cells, more often by neutrophils.

 

[milkboi]

Sorry, I meant the thyroid panel, not TSH panel. This includes TSH, T3 and T4.


It doesn't.


It may also be that you weren't used to seeing that much blood being drawn. I had that experience before, but I got used to it over time. I would close my eyes and just compose myself. It was standard for the phlebotomist to tell me to take a deep breath before he draws my blood. I think it's inane as it causes me to tense up further. I just ignore what he says and I just continue to breathe like nothing was happening.


It doesn't hurt to increase salt, although I feel salting to taste, and not avoiding salt is enough. Taking a lot of salt imho doesn't help as in my case where I excrete some albumin in my urine (microalbuminuria) low serum albumin is the limiting factor in increasing blood volume and more salt intake doesn't help towards increasing blood volume.

Be sure to have some cotton and alcohol on hand to wipe over the pricked finger. Just had to say it although you likely would have thought of it.

Not knowledgeable enough on MB in that regard. Perhaps someone else could chime in.


Some fats, especially coconut oil, have antibiotic effects and are affecting the gut biome? Or is the fat too much that not enough bile is emulsifying the fat enough and the fat goes to the colon and this cause the bowels to be loose? Maybe getting confused and having a rapid heart beat is due to low sugar on brain and on the red blood cells, as brain and red blood cells run on glucose? Just some guesses.

The endotoxin would come from bacteria that's killed by our white blood cells, more often by neutrophils.

Do you think taking 50-100mg Minocycline daily for one month would be an effective and safe strategy to hopefully get rid of low level infection?

Oh, and check out this awesome article on the similarities of MB and infrared light: Protection against neurodegeneration with low-dose methylene blue and near-infrared light

 

[milkboi]

Have you ever tried adding beef and starch to your diet? Soups? Vegetables? Where do you live? Some daily quality sun time for the vitamin D.

I‘ll definitely make sure to try your soup. Sound‘s delicious!

 

[Runenight201]

I‘ll definitely make sure to try your soup. Sound‘s delicious!

It’s good, and is critical, but not the solution.

I had to experience first what true nourishment is, and then make it my life mission to at all moments push my body into that direction.

Creative feeding, with an unrestrictive mind, is crucial. Inspiration from the environment, real or simulated, also serves to suggest and create new options for escaping the current low energy state.

Lastly, the self must be aware to how the various inputs are affecting the body, and the resultant decisions must be ones that are in tune with what is truly correct for well-being, nourishment, growth, development, health, etc...

 

[yerrag]

Do you think taking 50-100mg Minocycline daily for one month would be an effective and safe strategy to hopefully get rid of low level infection?

Oh, and check out this awesome article on the similarities of MB and infrared light: Protection against neurodegeneration with low-dose methylene blue and near-infrared light

Good article. Thanks! Perhaps 50mg/day would a good start. Minocycline is more potent than doxycycline and starting at a lower dose would be better. You can take another CBC blood test to see how your values improve.

Do you have any clue as to why you have high level of low grade bacterial infection? Antibiotics will reduce your infection temporarily , but knowing where the infection comes from would help you get at the source. If you have a leaky gut, bacteria could be coming from your gut. If you have periodontal infection, that is another source. With p. gingivalis, a periodontal bacteria, I'm now experiencing low blood sugar and I'm gaining weight. It's also affecting my memory. I still don't have a good grasp of how to deal with it, as it's got many ways to protect itself. I have to learn to outsmart it so I can vanquish it.

 

[Vadim]

My urine is almost never foamy. When I take too many serotonin inhibiting/anti-clotting substances (Aspirin, Cypro, Vitamin E), my blood becomes too thin, so I make sure not to take too much of those. I still take Aspirin and Cypro daily, so I'm guessing my blood is more on the liquid side. Although I don't know if blood liquidity correlates perfectly with blood volume.

My sodium is low on the test, should I make sure to always have some salt with every meal?

Your red blood results show you have pretty thick blood. Hemoglobin at 169 gives hematocrit closer to 51 percent which is quite high. This means that you are somewhat prone to clots. Drop cyproheptadine, vit K and liver from the diet, stay on aspirin, drink plenty of water and check it with a hematologist. I assume you are not smoking and not taking steroids. Probably its cyproheptadine suppressing your aldosterone levels and affecting water balance.

 

[milkboi]

Your red blood results show you have pretty thick blood. Hemoglobin at 169 gives hematocrit closer to 51 percent which is quite high. This means that you are somewhat prone to clots. Drop cyproheptadine, vit K and liver from the diet, stay on aspirin, drink plenty of water and check it with a hematologist. I assume you are not smoking and not taking steroids. Probably its cyproheptadine suppressing your aldosterone levels and affecting water balance.

Well, thanks for your input!

I'd rather not drop Cypro and K, but I could increase my aspirin dose. I dropped all supplements including aspirin for one week before my blood was drawn btw, so maybe there was a rebound in blood thickness?

How could overly thick blood contribute to my above health problems?

 

[somuch4food]

Yeah sure. Magnesium absorption seems to increase when vitamin D is increased. At least my experience. When your body is magnesium saturated I think thats when you start experience loose stools. When ever I supplement vitamin D my threshold for loose stools on magnesium seems to double. I can easily take 800mg magnesium without having to hit the toilett. Which would be impossible otherwise. So my recommendation would be that to adjust your magnesium dosing so you feel comfortable while you supplement vitamin D.

Could low magnesium explain why I get palpitations from 1000 IU D3 when taken with a meal including a good amount of calcium? I was also considering K2 deficiency.

 

[Vadim]

How could overly thick blood contribute to my above health problems?

First of all, thick blood is a major problem by itself as it raises the chances of clots, which could be a life-threatening event (thrombosis). Second, thick blood means worse blood flow, which means organs and tissues suffering from disrupted nutrients transport.

I'd rather not drop Cypro and K, but I could increase my aspirin dose. I dropped all supplements including aspirin for one week before my blood was drawn btw, so maybe there was a rebound in blood thickness?

Aspirin affects mostly platelets and no way it could affect blood volume or RBC count and hemoglobin even after a year on it.
Cypro and K could further contribute to your thick blood problem by lowering blood/plasma volume via aldosterone suppression (Cypro) and increasing clotting (vit K). I strongly advise you to monitor your hematocrit level dynamic after it crosses 50 pct level and to consult a hematologist if it will rise further.

 

[yerrag]

Your red blood results show you have pretty thick blood. Hemoglobin at 169 gives hematocrit closer to 51 percent which is quite high. This means that you are somewhat prone to clots. Drop cyproheptadine, vit K and liver from the diet, stay on aspirin, drink plenty of water and check it with a hematologist. I assume you are not smoking and not taking steroids. Probably its cyproheptadine suppressing your aldosterone levels and affecting water balance.

I would not say that is thick blood by what I normally understand as thick blood.

I have high rbc, hgb, and hct. I would call myself dehydrated, for lack of plasma in my blood, due to osmolar reasons - low amount of sodium (total, not the serum concentration) in plasma. And what makes my sodium low is because there's not enough albumin (total albumin, not serum albumin concentration) in my plasma. Low sodium attract less water, and this makes my blood volume lower than what should be. With less water, I am considered dehydrated, technically. Drinking more water won't help because the water just leaves my blood, because there's not enough sodium to attract it. And taking more sodium doesn't help, because there's not enough albumin to hold on to the sodium.

This is not to be confused with blood being thick.

Blood being thick has to do more with viscosity that is influenced by rheological factors such as the many components in blood agglomerating. If you want to check blood thickness, you could check your serum ESR.

 

[Runenight201]

I would not say that is thick blood by what I normally understand as thick blood.

I have high rbc, hgb, and hct. I would call myself dehydrated, for lack of plasma in my blood, due to osmolar reasons - low amount of sodium (total, not the serum concentration) in plasma. And what makes my sodium low is because there's not enough albumin (total albumin, not serum albumin concentration) in my plasma. Low sodium attract less water, and this makes my blood volume lower than what should be. With less water, I am considered dehydrated, technically. Drinking more water won't help because the water just leaves my blood, because there's not enough sodium to attract it. And taking more sodium doesn't help, because there's not enough albumin to hold on to the sodium.

This is not to be confused with blood being thick.

Blood being thick has to do more with viscosity that is influenced by rheological factors such as the many components in blood agglomerating. If you want to check blood thickness, you could check your serum ESR.

dehydration is tricky. I would say there’s truth in the common claim that the majority of us are dehydrated, but the common rationale to drink more water does little to actually improve the condition. Once one begins urinating every 20 mins, it must become clear that the issue isn’t the presence of water, but the ability for the body to utilize the water.

so I guess the solution would be the nutrient dense diet with sufficient sodium to allow for the cell to absorb all the water. Things like vegetables, beans, certain fruits (the tomato!) salt, etc... Im anecdotally finding are very effective at assisting with hydration.

 

[yerrag]

dehydration is tricky. I would say there’s truth in the common claim that the majority of us are dehydrated, but the common rationale to drink more water does little to actually improve the condition. Once one begins urinating every 20 mins, it must become clear that the issue isn’t the presence of water, but the ability for the body to utilize the water.

so I guess the solution would be the nutrient dense diet with sufficient sodium to allow for the cell to absorb all the water. Things like vegetables, beans, certain fruits (the tomato!) salt, etc... Im anecdotally finding are very effective at assisting with hydration.

Yes, that helps a lot. Fruit and vegetables and meat mostly for potassium. Well-cooked but mushy green leaves for magnesium and calcium. And enjoying life by not trying to eat bland food that isn't salty enough.

Even so, I'm finding my serum albumin stores hard to build up. I'm pretty sure my liver's making enough albumin, it's just that my albumin is being used up as fast as I'm making them, so I have difficulty building up blood volume.