Copper Deficiency Dilemma

Blossom

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what the reasoning to that
I thought vitamin C was depleted due to excessive free radicals from inhaling smoke. I don’t have science to prove that -it was just something I learned in school (over 20 years ago) so it could be out dated information.
 
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Rich77

Rich77

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Another Update:

Rushing to post, as work schedule.... very tight!

Latest developments regarding my so-called (*) Cu deficiency condition.

1) Stopped Cu supplements - as of 22 Nov, 2018. Within, I'd say 48 hrs, noticed marked change in overall health. No longer tense. That vague feeling of anxiety, gone. Less stressed, overall. Also hair texture seem to recover to semi-normal.

How can one explain this transformation (psychological and physical). No idea. But I think this gives credence to the notion (was it a notion or science!) that excess Cu, may actually manifest itself, in lab tests, as Cu deficiency! Body hides excess, to protect tissues? Whatever it is, no Cu supplements, meant better health.

Now, whether I'm still deficient, or moved to sufficient Cu blood levels, don't know. Haven't tested for Cu since last report.

2) Also on same date (above), stopped consuming high-vitamin A foods (preformed type: liver, milk). Though doubt stopping A, had anything whatsoever to do with overall improvement in my condition. Cause excess A, can linger in the liver for very long time. Stores take many weeks if not months to deplete.

3) Finally did the endoscopy test. Result: Esophageal varices. Which the examining doctor described as a marker (indication) of "steato-cirrhosis".

Nothing more to report, really. Except the above. Will provide followup, in due course.

Wishing you all the best of health.

Happy Holidays!

(*) Guess Cu def and excess, can be very difficult to diagnose with standard lab procedures (blood tests). I'd advise against relying on such tests to measure yr body's copper levels. As you may end up having toxic levels, and yr lab will still show low Cu result!
 

Motif

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Nov 24, 2017
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Another Update:

Rushing to post, as work schedule.... very tight!

Latest developments regarding my so-called (*) Cu deficiency condition.

1) Stopped Cu supplements - as of 22 Nov, 2018. Within, I'd say 48 hrs, noticed marked change in overall health. No longer tense. That vague feeling of anxiety, gone. Less stressed, overall. Also hair texture seem to recover to semi-normal.

How can one explain this transformation (psychological and physical). No idea. But I think this gives credence to the notion (was it a notion or science!) that excess Cu, may actually manifest itself, in lab tests, as Cu deficiency! Body hides excess, to protect tissues? Whatever it is, no Cu supplements, meant better health.

Now, whether I'm still deficient, or moved to sufficient Cu blood levels, don't know. Haven't tested for Cu since last report.

2) Also on same date (above), stopped consuming high-vitamin A foods (preformed type: liver, milk). Though doubt stopping A, had anything whatsoever to do with overall improvement in my condition. Cause excess A, can linger in the liver for very long time. Stores take many weeks if not months to deplete.

3) Finally did the endoscopy test. Result: Esophageal varices. Which the examining doctor described as a marker (indication) of "steato-cirrhosis".

Nothing more to report, really. Except the above. Will provide followup, in due course.

Wishing you all the best of health.

Happy Holidays!

(*) Guess Cu def and excess, can be very difficult to diagnose with standard lab procedures (blood tests). I'd advise against relying on such tests to measure yr body's copper levels. As you may end up having toxic levels, and yr lab will still show low Cu result!



Copper is so confusing
 

Nighteyes

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Yes, amen to that. But it is not really copper itself which is confusing. And it is not really a matter of deficiency or excess since both can exist at the same time. As has been mentioned before it is more about availability (bound vs free).

I have mentioned before that I previously suffered from excess free copper. I have tried quite a few things and the most effective for me all seem to do the same thing. Increase metallothionein/ceruloplasmin. I have recently been experimenting with sulforaphane (from foods) and had great results. Broccoli and cauliflower with mustard and freshly chopped cabbage turned into juice. High protein foods with lots of histidine and cysteine really help as well (pork).

I half expected to crash my thyroid with all the goitrogens from the cruciferous vegetables but it has not. thyroid action was already low from the free copper (elevated tsh). Our former russian master of interactions has stated many times how excess copper will lower thyroid. that has been true for me.

Metallothionein plays a prominent role in the prevention of diabetic nephropathy by sulforaphane via up-regulation of Nrf2
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891584915005262

Metallothionein is downstream of Nrf2 and partially mediates
sulforaphane prevention of diabetic cardiomyopathy

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/diabetes/early/2016/11/30/db15-1274.full.pdf

Effect of sulforaphane on metallothionein expression and induction of apoptosis in human hepatoma HepG2 cells
CiteSeerX — Effect of sulforaphane on metallothionein expression and induction of apoptosis in human hepatoma HepG2 cells
 

Motif

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Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
2,757
Another Update:

Rushing to post, as work schedule.... very tight!

Latest developments regarding my so-called (*) Cu deficiency condition.

1) Stopped Cu supplements - as of 22 Nov, 2018. Within, I'd say 48 hrs, noticed marked change in overall health. No longer tense. That vague feeling of anxiety, gone. Less stressed, overall. Also hair texture seem to recover to semi-normal.

How can one explain this transformation (psychological and physical). No idea. But I think this gives credence to the notion (was it a notion or science!) that excess Cu, may actually manifest itself, in lab tests, as Cu deficiency! Body hides excess, to protect tissues? Whatever it is, no Cu supplements, meant better health.

Now, whether I'm still deficient, or moved to sufficient Cu blood levels, don't know. Haven't tested for Cu since last report.

2) Also on same date (above), stopped consuming high-vitamin A foods (preformed type: liver, milk). Though doubt stopping A, had anything whatsoever to do with overall improvement in my condition. Cause excess A, can linger in the liver for very long time. Stores take many weeks if not months to deplete.

3) Finally did the endoscopy test. Result: Esophageal varices. Which the examining doctor described as a marker (indication) of "steato-cirrhosis".

Nothing more to report, really. Except the above. Will provide followup, in due course.

Wishing you all the best of health.

Happy Holidays!

(*) Guess Cu def and excess, can be very difficult to diagnose with standard lab procedures (blood tests). I'd advise against relying on such tests to measure yr body's copper levels. As you may end up having toxic levels, and yr lab will still show low Cu result!
We need an update, sir!
 

Astolfo

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Aug 12, 2018
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Is it even possible to get diminished anxiety after a copper toxicity? Every text I read about this says excess copper causes anxiety.
 

Ihor

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Feb 25, 2018
Messages
216
Yes, amen to that. But it is not really copper itself which is confusing. And it is not really a matter of deficiency or excess since both can exist at the same time. As has been mentioned before it is more about availability (bound vs free).

I have mentioned before that I previously suffered from excess free copper. I have tried quite a few things and the most effective for me all seem to do the same thing. Increase metallothionein/ceruloplasmin. I have recently been experimenting with sulforaphane (from foods) and had great results. Broccoli and cauliflower with mustard and freshly chopped cabbage turned into juice. High protein foods with lots of histidine and cysteine really help as well (pork).

I half expected to crash my thyroid with all the goitrogens from the cruciferous vegetables but it has not. thyroid action was already low from the free copper (elevated tsh). Our former russian master of interactions has stated many times how excess copper will lower thyroid. that has been true for me.

Metallothionein plays a prominent role in the prevention of diabetic nephropathy by sulforaphane via up-regulation of Nrf2
Metallothionein plays a prominent role in the prevention of diabetic nephropathy by sulforaphane via up-regulation of Nrf2

Metallothionein is downstream of Nrf2 and partially mediates
sulforaphane prevention of diabetic cardiomyopathy

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/diabetes/early/2016/11/30/db15-1274.full.pdf

Effect of sulforaphane on metallothionein expression and induction of apoptosis in human hepatoma HepG2 cells
CiteSeerX — Effect of sulforaphane on metallothionein expression and induction of apoptosis in human hepatoma HepG2 cells
Do you know what estrogen levels you had at the time of copper imbalance?
 

Astolfo

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Aug 12, 2018
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I'm currently taking Zinc + Vit C and never had that panic feeling they describe as Copper dumping.
 

Nighteyes

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Do you know what estrogen levels you had at the time of copper imbalance?
Hey yeah they were at the lower end of the range. I have always had low estrogen in the blood I Think. I Think the logic could be that excess copper lowers estrogen so as to not cause the body to absorb more copper. Gbolduev has Said many times that estrogen is only allowed to rise when the body asks for copper, which means when you raise metabolism. So getting my copper down has allowed my thyroid to rise and probably estrogen to rise. I havent tested estrogen since because getting blood tests where I live is such a hassle. I cannot just pay. I must give the doctor some stupid excuse and I no longer feel like arguing with them
 

Astolfo

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Copper toxicity and excess copper levels causes the body to hold onto oestrogen in the body and prevent its detoxification, and having excess oestrogen levels and poor oestrogen detoxification causes the body to hold onto copper. They tend to feed one another, creating a vicious cycle.

Lol, at this point everything conflicts. I have high estrogen and don't know what it means.
 

Ihor

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Feb 25, 2018
Messages
216
Lol, at this point everything conflicts. I have high estrogen and don't know what it means.
Gbolduev said that? Consequently this logic, with a high estrogen, there is no low copper, since the estrogen excessively retains it, and with a high copper, there is no low estrogen, because copper stimulates the estrogen.
My serum e2 is high, and copper with ceruloplasmin are low and for several years I have not been able to raise them.
 

Ihor

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Messages
216
Hey yeah they were at the lower end of the range. I have always had low estrogen in the blood I Think. I Think the logic could be that excess copper lowers estrogen so as to not cause the body to absorb more copper. Gbolduev has Said many times that estrogen is only allowed to rise when the body asks for copper, which means when you raise metabolism. So getting my copper down has allowed my thyroid to rise and probably estrogen to rise. I havent tested estrogen since because getting blood tests where I live is such a hassle. I cannot just pay. I must give the doctor some stupid excuse and I no longer feel like arguing with them
I asked for estrogen because, as already mentioned, there is an opinion that its excess retains copper in the tissues, and sulforaphane is known for its ability to remove estrogen, and it occurred to me that by lowering your estrogen, you could normalize copper levels, but i think it's all simplistic.
 

Daniil

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Motif

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Another Update:

Rushing to post, as work schedule.... very tight!

Latest developments regarding my so-called (*) Cu deficiency condition.

1) Stopped Cu supplements - as of 22 Nov, 2018. Within, I'd say 48 hrs, noticed marked change in overall health. No longer tense. That vague feeling of anxiety, gone. Less stressed, overall. Also hair texture seem to recover to semi-normal.

How can one explain this transformation (psychological and physical). No idea. But I think this gives credence to the notion (was it a notion or science!) that excess Cu, may actually manifest itself, in lab tests, as Cu deficiency! Body hides excess, to protect tissues? Whatever it is, no Cu supplements, meant better health.

Now, whether I'm still deficient, or moved to sufficient Cu blood levels, don't know. Haven't tested for Cu since last report.

2) Also on same date (above), stopped consuming high-vitamin A foods (preformed type: liver, milk). Though doubt stopping A, had anything whatsoever to do with overall improvement in my condition. Cause excess A, can linger in the liver for very long time. Stores take many weeks if not months to deplete.

3) Finally did the endoscopy test. Result: Esophageal varices. Which the examining doctor described as a marker (indication) of "steato-cirrhosis".

Nothing more to report, really. Except the above. Will provide followup, in due course.

Wishing you all the best of health.

Happy Holidays!

(*) Guess Cu def and excess, can be very difficult to diagnose with standard lab procedures (blood tests). I'd advise against relying on such tests to measure yr body's copper levels. As you may end up having toxic levels, and yr lab will still show low Cu result!

I‘m so curious how this continued.

when you ever read this, pls let us know!
 

Daniil

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Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is associated with heavy metal exposure during adolescent development. However, the direct clinical evidence is limited. To investigate the possible association between environmental heavy metal exposure and ADHD, a case-control study was conducted with children aged 6–14 years in Guangzhou, China. Results showed that median concentrations of chromium (Cr), manganese (Mn), cobalt (Co), nickel (Ni), copper (Cu), molybdenum (Mo), tin (Sn), barium (Ba), and lead (Pb) in the urine of the case group were significantly higher than those of the control group. Children with ADHD had significantly higher levels of 8-OHdG and MDA compared with those from the control group. In addition, correlations between urinary Co, Ni, Cu, Mo, and Sn were significantly correlated with 8-OHdG and MDA concentrations in urine. After the case and control groups were combined together and the first quartile was used as the reference category, odds ratios (ORs) of ADHD for children increased significantly with the quartile increasing of urinary Co, Cu, and Sn. Our study provides a clinical evidence that Co, Cu, and Sn exposure, particularly Sn exposure, may be an environmental risk of the incurrence of ADHD for children. Furthermore, Co, Ni, Cu, Mo, and Sn exposures were significantly correlated with DNA and lipid damage.
 

Daniil

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Perhaps an excess of free copper suppresses the thyroid gland. And the production of cerruloplasmin depends on the proper functioning of the thyroid gland.
 

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