Copper Deficiency Dilemma

[InChristAlone]

you need vitmain A to make ceruloplasm in order to bind copper. it will show a low copper level because of low vitamin A. low iron and low copper go hand in hand. it does nto mean you don't have the minerals in you its just copper needs to bind to ceruoloplams and then actiavte iron. without copper then iron is useless.

cashews are super high in copper as it dark chocolate.

so all the D lowered your A and now you have low Cp bound CU and low Fe because of low Cu

you also need some excercise as the adrenals need to activate copper binding in the liver but if you are feeling anemic then you may not feel like walking.

There is no way he is vitamin A deficient after 400 grams of liver a week.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Haven't read the entire Ascorbate thread you provided. Interesting. Noticed yr mention taking C at night before retiring. Isn't this contrary to what we've been told ages ago, "take yr C early in the day, before evening, and certainly not at bed time, to avoid frequent wake ups (bathroom visits) > insomnia.

You could take it first thing in the morning, 75 minutes before food. You just don't want to take it with food, because you won't absorb any copper in that meal. In animals that produce their own AA, AA is never present in the stomach with food since they don't need to ingest it.

You could definitely take more AA. They have calculated a daily human dose (if we produced our own) to be 4-5 grams.

 

[Motif]

Lot of similarities to myself.

Do you have neck and / or back tensions too? Mine are extremely bad

 

[sunraiser]

Thanks Sunraiser. The paradox is def there, as the more Cu I consume, the worse the symptoms. Also, not getting the Cu or Cp levels higher.

You were eating so much liver it's likely your ceruloplasmin is staying low because your body doesn't want to uptake anymore copper.

Copper, zinc, calcium, magnesium, EVERYTHING is in a balance. If you were eating lamb or calves liver all those years then it's extremely unlikely that copper need or ceruloplasmin need to be your focus, despite the blood tests.

Don't treat it so much as a parameter fixing exercise via blood tests, but more use commom sense and intuition to discover where your body is likely to be at, and then trial carefully and give things a chance to work.

For example I have been vitamin D replete via blood test but still deficient in reality due to k2 absence. If you have lots of retinol stored in your liver then finding the D and k2 ratio can be a little challenging.

Do you have access to sunshine? If so, does it feel appealing or good on your skin?

 

[Rich77]

It wont hurt you to try a vitamin C supplement. Animals that produce it, produce way more than we get from diet. I mean unless you eat ripe tropical fruit all day long..

I did take 500mg C today, along with the usual 330 ml OJ, and only 2 large oranges, plus the lime squeeze juice. Have to say, feel mentally somewhat better than previous days. But I am always cautious of having more Cu stores depleted. As you know, being border line Cu and Cp, no one would advise taking more C supp, than from natural sources.

Paradox. I mean, the hair can be described as Corckscrew, Coiled. You only see mention of this in the medical literature, in the case of scurvy = severe Vit C deficiency! How can one be severely def in C!

Unless caused by some 20 yrs of C supp (at 500 - 1000 mg/day), while on heavy alcohol consumption. Then sudden stop in C supp (though never stopped taking natural food based C) > lead to "rebound scurvy"!

Early this year - had painful teeth and gum disease issue (more like dental crisis). Tooth infection and receding gums. Root canal, antibiotics, etc. But this probably unrelated to C, since the infection was from lack of proper dental hygiene over years (quick not delicate brushing of teeth late at night). This pain and procedure took weeks to resolve. Still can't imagine it was caused by abrupt halt to C supp.

*Note: didn't mention > heavy smoker

 

[Rich77]

Are you still eating refined fibre for bowel motility? It’s definitely not something I’d be doing any more. Order some aged cascara and while you wait eat 1-2 grated carrots a day. Don’t underestimate the impact that your gut health has on the rest of your body (endotoxins are nasty AF).

You’ve got so many things going on but what do you eat typically?

Thanks Glassy. Can't stop the bran and Metamucil. Bowels just won't move. As for Cascara, used some time ago. Not recom long term, can cause more sluggish bowel, i.e. dependence.

Diet, fluctuates between meat, fish, poultry. Fried or grilled, with side dishes like fries, beans, salad, rice etc. Consume 2 cups of plain yogurt. Plus large amount of red chili pepper, fresh and powder form. Won't have much of an appetite without spicy taste like pepper, pickles, etc.

One thing, I've added since Jan 18, drink glass of milk every day, with coffee. Not coffee drinker before.

 

[Rich77]

you need vitmain A to make ceruloplasm in order to bind copper. it will show a low copper level because of low vitamin A. low iron and low copper go hand in hand. it does nto mean you don't have the minerals in you its just copper needs to bind to ceruoloplams and then actiavte iron. without copper then iron is useless.

cashews are super high in copper as it dark chocolate.

so all the D lowered your A and now you have low Cp bound CU and low Fe because of low Cu

you also need some excercise as the adrenals need to activate copper binding in the liver but if you are feeling anemic then you may not feel like walking.

Thanks Fradon. Most of what you mention is true. need A , Fe needs Cu etc. But my A level always, always been on the high side. Nothing short there. As for exercise, remains a wish. Very busy work schedule, very tense working environment, also some issues with depression, insomnia. Few times went to gym, symptoms got worse, be awake all night. Unlike other folks, after gym and dinner sleep like a baby.

 

[Rich77]

I would consider taking the copper hours away from vitamin C. There is some evidence that C may interfere with copper bioavailability. If you are getting a lot of Iron e.g. through liver that will also compete with copper absorption.

Thanks Cap. Do take Cu away from OJ or other C rich food. As to Iron, since tests continue show low Ferritin, started daily taking one large Tbs molasses mixed with orange juice. Within 4 weeks, test showed big increase in serum Fe (above normal range, but not very much above), Ferritin remained low.

 

[Rich77]

Lot of similarities to myself.

Do you have neck and / or back tensions too? Mine are extremely bad

Chronic back, but relieved with manipulation/stretching. Almost no back problem, now.

 

[Rich77]

You were eating so much liver it's likely your ceruloplasmin is staying low because your body doesn't want to uptake anymore copper.

Copper, zinc, calcium, magnesium, EVERYTHING is in a balance. If you were eating lamb or calves liver all those years then it's extremely unlikely that copper need or ceruloplasmin need to be your focus, despite the blood tests.

Don't treat it so much as a parameter fixing exercise via blood tests, but more use commom sense and intuition to discover where your body is likely to be at, and then trial carefully and give things a chance to work.

For example I have been vitamin D replete via blood test but still deficient in reality due to k2 absence. If you have lots of retinol stored in your liver then finding the D and k2 ratio can be a little challenging.

Do you have access to sunshine? If so, does it feel appealing or good on your skin?

Interesting post, Sinraiser. Will look into further, but def agree, that something is out of order, somewhere. Thanks.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Thanks Cap. Do take Cu away from OJ or other C rich food. As to Iron, since tests continue show low Ferritin, started daily taking one large Tbs molasses mixed with orange juice. Within 4 weeks, test showed big increase in serum Fe (above normal range, but not very much above), Ferritin remained low.

Mainly I take copper with aspirin, first thing in the morning before food. Away from C. I made the mistake of taking too a lot of zinc for several months without any copper and found myself with a lot of joint pain and have spent the past few months now avoiding zinc and just taking copper, it has finally started to balance out as the joint issues are almost gone. I’m currently taking a break from both zinc and copper, will likely start up taking both again in a month or so.

 

[Motif]

What about your iron ?
Could cause it too

 

[Blossom]

Note: didn't mention > heavy smoker

IIRC each cigarette depletes 25 mg of vitamin C.

 

[Rich77]

IIRC each cigarette depletes 25 mg of vitamin C.

Thanks Mod. Not sure about 25 mg C per cig. I'm working on cutting down from 2 to 1 pack/day.

 

[Rich77]

What about your iron ?
Could cause it too

Hi serum Fe, recent event (after taking organic pure Molasses). Low Cu long standing issue.

 

[Motif]

I heard high iron keeps Ceruloplasmin low.
Maybe you could try to donate blood.

I'm thinking about this too

 

[Rich77]

*Update*

Appointment set for Endoscopy. For years, been avoiding liver biopsy (risky biz). My physician recommended the non-invasive procedure to detect presence of serious liver condition. Will do, for what's worth.

Barber turned physician!! I was at the barber shop yesterday. The usual quick hair-cut, tuned to long conversation (amazing the amount of info regular folks, nowadays, get from the web)!

Basically he had this to say: known you for some time, yet I've never seen a face or hair like this. Unusual! Puffy face, hair so very thin (meaning, extremely fine, no thickness), why you should check with doc! Not look well my friend!

Replied: overwork lately, stressed out I guess. I did visit doc, nothing seemed wrong to him. May be mineral imbalances here or there, nothing more. I hope.

Said: No way, this is not "some imbalance". I hope it is nothing more serious than what he told you, but I been barber for quite a time, you know, and I don't think I've ever had a client in this bad shape (meaning dry/fine/thin hair, puffy face).

I tried to explain, that my condition may have a thing or two with Cu/Zn/Iron/ALP/A~D combo, mess.

Replied: this is the look of thyroid . Bet you, it's a thyroid thing.

Told him, my TSH is normal, nothing there.

Last words of Barber turned Physician: it's the Copper or Zinc (low or high), in yr thyroid. There is such thing as "sub-clinical Hypo or Hyper Thyroid" you know! And it is not easy to detect.

OK, so much for Dr Barber.

Made me more depressed than already am. Probably should look for a more 'humble' hair dresser!

Last note. Like to thank all who expressed interest in my condition, tried assist explore ways to resolve this copper dilemma (still believe its Cu thing, be it low or hidden high Cu).

 

[What-a-Riot]

Seeing the words "Dr Barber" i'm just compelled to word up The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack. Carry on...

 

[mrsuomi]

Did you really eat 400 grams of liver a week? That's insane. Please stop.

I eat 500 gram o liver a week no problem

 

[michael94]

IIRC each cigarette depletes 25 mg of vitamin C.

what the reasoning to that