Sex And Thyroid Hormones, Iodine, Cortisol, Low Libido

[Cirion]

@Douglas Ek

If you had to start over, what would be the first few tests you would do? I think I'd like to get some more testing done to get a better picture into my health because I'm currently a recovering Hypo and want to accelerate this process by figuring out exactly what I'm deficient in.

 

[Momado965]

Whats a good iron supplement?

 

[Momado965]

That's not true......
Have you had low iron and treated it?
I've had low ferritin stores and iron pills were the only thing that could raise it. I already ate tons of red meat and liver and my ferritin scores never improved. Some people just have a hard time absorbing iron. My girlfriend also had really low ferritin Doctor gave her a prescription iron tablet with 200mg of iron. after 1 week and she's like a new person. No more hair shedding, no cold hands, no fatigue, higher sex drive (I know this) and also her acne went away. Iron is totally needed and if you DONT have the hemochromatosis gene you really don't need to worry about overload. unless you take large amounts of iron for several months. And who would do that without checking their ferritin? I would never recommend anyone to start iron pills out of the blue. Because you do not know if you have hemochromatosis without checking your ferritin first. Normal healthy men tend to have a ferritin between 100-200. And women 70-150. Anything under 70 for both sexes is to low in my own opinion. I have seen lots of people going from under 70 to over 130 and everyone say they feel so much better. This coffee drinking with every red meat meal or taking aspirin (Lowers iron because of overall increased bleeding) is detrimental if you already have low ferritin.

Before I fixed my ferritin from 50 to 150 I had low thyroid and low-end testosterone. After getting my ferritin to 150 my thyroid went up. My whole body was warm all the time and my testosterone is now in the 900-1000 range. I can prove it all posting blood tests if you like.

How much iron did you take and for how long?

 

[Lurker]

Has anyone tried Lactoferrin to improve iron status? It seems like a better option to try unless you have a known iron losing condition.

 

[Douglas Ek]

How much iron did you take and for how long?

Depends on what form ive taken both glycinate and sulphate. Glycinate i took 60mg and sulphate between 100-200mg. Absorption are 30% and 10% for those two. If you are anemic doctor will prescribe sulphate in 100mg per pills this is what i got. I took it for 6 months i feel great now. When you donate blood you usually get iron to replenish what they take. It usually takes 2000mg of iron sulphate to replace 500ml of blood. Which is the amount they take. Both the glycinate and sulphate worked for me in those doses as seen on lab test and feeling a lot better. People tend to think that the RDI at 8mg-30mg is enough but to increase iron stores but its not. You only absorb 10% usually loss of iron excreted through urine, vaginal fluid, sweat, feces, and tears total about 1-1.5 milligrams so that would be 10-15mg. If you drink a lot of coffee like me and have taken supplements that hinders the absorption further you will lower your iron eventually. Only people with hemochromatosis with problems synthesising hepcidine will get excess iron levels.

 

[Momado965]

Depends on what form ive taken both glycinate and sulphate. Glycinate i took 60mg and sulphate between 100-200mg. Absorption are 30% and 10% for those two. If you are anemic doctor will prescribe sulphate in 100mg per pills this is what i got. I took it for 6 months i feel great now. When you donate blood you usually get iron to replenish what they take. It usually takes 2000mg of iron sulphate to replace 500ml of blood. Which is the amount they take. Both the glycinate and sulphate worked for me in those doses as seen on lab test and feeling a lot better. People tend to think that the RDI at 8mg-30mg is enough but to increase iron stores but its not. You only absorb 10% usually loss of iron excreted through urine, vaginal fluid, sweat, feces, and tears total about 1-1.5 milligrams so that would be 10-15mg. If you drink a lot of coffee like me and have taken supplements that hinders the absorption further you will lower your iron eventually. Only people with hemochromatosis with problems synthesising hepcidine will get excess iron levels.

Thank you. This was very thorough. Do you think 50 mg of ferrus bisglycinate is enough or should I increase it to 60-70mg.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Thank you. This was very thorough. Do you think 50 mg of ferrus bisglycinate is enough or should I increase it to 60-70mg.

Should be enough

 

[Momado965]

Should be enough

Alright thanks. How long before I notice results? I have low ferritin, 30.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Alright thanks. How long before I notice results? I have low ferritin, 30.

Start is usually slow. Hard to say youll notice eventually youre not feeling crap all the time. At that point take a blood test. I reckom optimal for men is around 100 or a bit over.

 

[Momado965]

Start is usually slow. Hard to say youll notice eventually youre not feeling crap all the time. At that point take a blood test. I reckom optimal for men is around 100 or a bit over.

Well ok sounds intuitive but when you took iron how long was it before you too another test to gauge results?

 

[Douglas Ek]

Well ok sounds intuitive but when you took iron how long was it before you too another test to gauge results?

I did it almost every month but i can recommend wait 2-3 months. I did to often my results was quite gradual . 50, 57,70,90,120. Around 90 i started to feel normal again.

 

[Momado965]

I did it almost every month but i can recommend wait 2-3 months. I did to often my results was quite gradual . 50, 57,70,90,120. Around 90 i started to feel normal again.

Cool. Those are dosages for ferrus sulfate and not glycinate right?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Generally men in good health usually have range between 100-200. Above 130 for optimal thyroid. Below 50 is serious for a man.

I am very curious as to where you got these numbers. Because they don't match up with medical literature at all.

Lab ranges vary for ferritin for men, and can be as wide as 20-400 ng/ml. It's true that men generally have higher levels of ferritin than women, but that's mainly due to the fact that men don't menstruate. It's also true that men have higher levels of degenerative diseases, especially heart disease and cancer, than women. It's also true that men tend to die younger than women.

It was Jerome Sullivan who first came up with Iron Hypothesis in 1981, to explain why men got heart disease more frequently than women.

If you look at the FeAST trial, they lowered men's ferritin levels from 122 to about 80, and the group with the lower ferritin level had about half as many cardiovascular events, and about half the chance of cancer.

E.D. Weinberg and the Iron Disorders Institute have recommended a level of ferritin from about 25-75, usually with a TSAT under 45%

I know you have attributed your feeling better to higher levels of ferritin, but from your posts, it sounds like you made a lot of other changes at the same time.

 

[Douglas Ek]

I am very curious as to where you got these numbers. Because they don't match up with medical literature at all.

Lab ranges vary for ferritin for men, and can be as wide as 20-400 ng/ml. It's true that men generally have higher levels of ferritin than women, but that's mainly due to the fact that men don't menstruate. It's also true that men have higher levels of degenerative diseases, especially heart disease and cancer, than women. It's also true that men tend to die younger than women.

It was Jerome Sullivan who first came up with Iron Hypothesis in 1981, to explain why men got heart disease more frequently than women.

If you look at the FeAST trial, they lowered men's ferritin levels from 122 to about 80, and the group with the lower ferritin level had about half as many cardiovascular events, and about half the chance of cancer.

E.D. Weinberg and the Iron Disorders Institute have recommended a level of ferritin from about 25-75, usually with a TSAT under 45%

I know you have attributed your feeling better to higher levels of ferritin, but from your posts, it sounds like you made a lot of other changes at the same time.

its based both on personal testimony and also that there are tons of other forums where they say for women generally 70-90 and men around 120. I think over 200 obviously that's too high but if you don't have any disorder or health problem it would be a problem lots of people live perfectly normal lives with ferritin over 200 and I've come across so many people saying the feeling ***t under 50. I tell you how many people are messaging me on this forum with low ferritin and they try to take the iron pill and every one of them say they feel better at least 15-20 people had this happen. Yes, research may show that high ferritin is dangerous and I certainly believe it is but that's a lot higher than what people here tend to think is good. everyone on this forum always says listen to your body it's smarter than you think well so many people feel tired and feel better on iron. is it really such coincidence. And the research is mixed. And the reference ranges are huge for ferritin which I agree and inflammation is involved and there is a mechanism where oxidative stress and iron is not good. I think if you live an unhealthy lifestyle low in antioxidants like vitamin E, C etc and also consume a lot of iron food then that could be of concern. But people aren't as stupid either if they feel tired and believe it might be iron then let them try that for themselves. If you, later on, get a blood test where it shows 200 as you previously had 30 in ferritin well then go donate blood. You might save another person while doing it. Doctors in Sweden where I live are some of the best in the world and they are all cautious about letting people with already low iron donate blood and they always prescribe high doses of iron after someone donated. Is this because they are all morons or what's up? No, because this is what medical science has concluded is needed. For sure there are people with hemochromatosis that struggle to keep their iron levels in a healthy range. Hemo patients usually have above 1000. There's also milions of women struggling keeping them up and it can happen to men aswell. If you google "the world most common nutrient deficiency is" guess what? It aint vitamin D or anything like that. It's iron. But yeah sure the whole world is wrong about it.

 

[tankasnowgod]

its based both on personal testimony and also that there are tons of other forums where they say for women generally 70-90 and men around 120. I think over 200 obviously that's too high but if you don't have any disorder or health problem it would be a problem lots of people live perfectly normal lives with ferritin over 200 and I've come across so many people saying the feeling ***t under 50. I tell you how many people are messaging me on this forum with low ferritin and they try to take the iron pill and every one of them say they feel better at least 15-20 people had this happen. Yes, research may show that high ferritin is dangerous and I certainly believe it is but that's a lot higher than what people here tend to think is good. everyone on this forum always says listen to your body it's smarter than you think well so many people feel tired and feel better on iron. is it really such coincidence. And the research is mixed. And the reference ranges are huge for ferritin which I agree and inflammation is involved and there is a mechanism where oxidative stress and iron is not good. I think if you live an unhealthy lifestyle low in antioxidants like vitamin E, C etc and also consume a lot of iron food then that could be of concern. But people aren't as stupid either if they feel tired and believe it might be iron then let them try that for themselves. If you, later on, get a blood test where it shows 200 as you previously had 30 in ferritin well then go donate blood. You might save another person while doing it. Doctors in Sweden where I live are some of the best in the world and they are all cautious about letting people with already low iron donate blood and they always prescribe high doses of iron after someone donated. Is this because they are all morons or what's up? No, because this is what medical science has concluded is needed. For sure there are people with hemochromatosis that struggle to keep their iron levels in a healthy range. Hemo patients usually have above 1000. There's also milions of women struggling keeping them up and it can happen to men aswell. If you google "the world most common nutrient deficiency is" guess what? It aint vitamin D or anything like that. It's iron. But yeah sure the whole world is wrong about it.

Okay, so it seems basically your sources are personal experience, testimonials, and other sources that you can't cite. The numbers sound to me a lot like the STTM site (who says their research papers they based ferritin values on has been taken off the internet).

As for "The research being mixed," I'm wondering what research you can cite that shows that a Ferritin level between 100-150 is superior than the 25-75 range for anyone, let alone men. I always go back to Zacharski's studies where he showed that lowering iron (to 80ng/ml of Ferritin or lower) dramatically reduced heart disease and cancer-

Implementation of an iron reduction protocol in patients with peripheral vascular disease: VA cooperative study no. 410: the Iron (Fe) and Atherosc... - PubMed - NCBI

The iron (Fe) and atherosclerosis study (FeAST): a pilot study of reduction of body iron stores in atherosclerotic peripheral vascular disease. - PubMed - NCBI

On top of this, I also use the advice given in the E.D. Weinberg book, Exposing the Hidden Dangers of Iron. I also cite the research of Dr. Fachinni, who also had great success in clinical outcomes by lowering pateint's ferritin to that near deficiency level of 30.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...t_to_Slow_Progression_of_Diabetic_Nephropathy

Chris Kresser also gave an excellent presentation, citing many studies that showed fantastic improvements with iron lowering-

As for what blood donation guidelines are in Sweden, I am not sure, but I can say the only iron number regularly checked in the US is hemoglobin, and they have a cutoff number of 12.5, 13.0 for men. If you know the specifics in Sweden, please share.

As for Hemochromatosis, you seem to only know the number 1000, which is a critical number, as that is the point where you risk serious, irreversible liver damage. At that point, they recommend two extractions of blood a week. Once under 1000 (say, 950) you can slow down to only one extraction of blood per week. but number in that 500-999 range are still far, far too high, and many notice serious symptoms in those ranges.

As for Google's wisdom on nutrient deficiency.... well, it's completely irrelevant if you do have high iron stores.

The point of all this is that I have seen lot's of evidence that 25-75 ng/ml is a very safe range, comparable to the levels most teens have. I have not come across studies (or even many testimonials) that a target of say 100-150 is better for anybody, including athletes. Anthony Colpo, nutrition researcher and active cyclist, found many improvements in his training lowering a fairly high starting iron. If it got to about 30, he noticed some issues, but found a sweet spot for more athletic types at about 40-60.

 

[Douglas Ek]

Okay, so it seems basically your sources are personal experience, testimonials, and other sources that you can't cite. The numbers sound to me a lot like the STTM site (who says their research papers they based ferritin values on has been taken off the internet).

As for "The research being mixed," I'm wondering what research you can cite that shows that a Ferritin level between 100-150 is superior than the 25-75 range for anyone, let alone men. I always go back to Zacharski's studies where he showed that lowering iron (to 80ng/ml of Ferritin or lower) dramatically reduced heart disease and cancer-

Implementation of an iron reduction protocol in patients with peripheral vascular disease: VA cooperative study no. 410: the Iron (Fe) and Atherosc... - PubMed - NCBI

The iron (Fe) and atherosclerosis study (FeAST): a pilot study of reduction of body iron stores in atherosclerotic peripheral vascular disease. - PubMed - NCBI

On top of this, I also use the advice given in the E.D. Weinberg book, Exposing the Hidden Dangers of Iron. I also cite the research of Dr. Fachinni, who also had great success in clinical outcomes by lowering pateint's ferritin to that near deficiency level of 30.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...t_to_Slow_Progression_of_Diabetic_Nephropathy

Chris Kresser also gave an excellent presentation, citing many studies that showed fantastic improvements with iron lowering-

As for what blood donation guidelines are in Sweden, I am not sure, but I can say the only iron number regularly checked in the US is hemoglobin, and they have a cutoff number of 12.5, 13.0 for men. If you know the specifics in Sweden, please share.

As for Hemochromatosis, you seem to only know the number 1000, which is a critical number, as that is the point where you risk serious, irreversible liver damage. At that point, they recommend two extractions of blood a week. Once under 1000 (say, 950) you can slow down to only one extraction of blood per week. but number in that 500-999 range are still far, far too high, and many notice serious symptoms in those ranges.

As for Google's wisdom on nutrient deficiency.... well, it's completely irrelevant if you do have high iron stores.

The point of all this is that I have seen lot's of evidence that 25-75 ng/ml is a very safe range, comparable to the levels most teens have. I have not come across studies (or even many testimonials) that a target of say 100-150 is better for anybody, including athletes. Anthony Colpo, nutrition researcher and active cyclist, found many improvements in his training lowering a fairly high starting iron. If it got to about 30, he noticed some issues, but found a sweet spot for more athletic types at about 40-60.

all the studies you cited showed slowing of people who have diabetes, vascular disease etc i dont have that? what's your point. Sure maybe its good to lower iron in disease but if your not sick to begin with

 

[tankasnowgod]

all the studies you cited showed slowing of people who have diabetes, vascular disease etc i dont have that? what's your point. Sure maybe its good to lower iron in disease but if your not sick to begin with

Not true. The Zacharsky studies followed normal men without history of heart disease. The lowering of ferritin reduced future incidence of heart disease.

Still, my main point was to wonder what evidence you were basing your ferritin recommendations on. I listed the evidence where my ideas about ferritin come from. You have very different ideas, and I am wondering if there is some evidence that you based your opinion on that I overlooked. From what I gather, it's more just your own personal experience.

 

[Momado965]

Hey guys how can I contact douglas. I dont think he is using this forum anymore as I couldnt sebd him a message.

 

[IrishD]

Yes it can be very hard to get it up for some people. 100 is fine but Ive hear a lots of people feeling more energy and benefits from going up to 150. Specially for thyroid health. I feel fantastic now. Energy i havent had for years

Hi there. My ferritin levels came in at 360. I'm not full of energy