Copper Deficiency

[Motif]

my copper was always low. Always a not too bad deficiency, but I was reading so much about copper deficiency that I was so confused and didn't take supplements for it because of that.


A lot of hair mineral dudes say copper toxicity is a huge thing and I even did a test and was told that copper toxicity is a thing in my case.

My Ceruloplasmin was a low too, but the copper / Ceruloplasmin ratio wasn't too bad.

24 h urine copper Test was alright.



What should i do about this?

 

[fradon]

the bad copper is called unbound copper it is copper that the body can't use so it get dumped in your organs, brain, blood vessels, it causes problems in long run

stress create problems with copper as ceruplasm has bind copper but it can't do it when stressed and when cortisol is high

you can take magnesium to lower cortisol but also do some exercise as sweating releases copper

to bind copper the adrenals have to signal to the liver so stiumlating the adrenals with exercise can help bind copper

also avoid too many copper foods and add more zinc and selenium foods to your diet like red meat/ liver

also avoid to many foods that deplete zinc like sugar and also stress

avoid copper cook ware and drinking water from copper pipes

 

[Motif]

@Douglas Ek

You see... this stuff always confuses me

 

[Mito]

You can calculate you're percentage of non-ceruloplasmin bound copper. The normal reference range is 5 to 20% (in other words 80 to 95% of copper being bound to ceruloplasmin). The calculation is explained here Great Advice on Pyrrole Disorder (Pyroluria).

Chris Masterjohn believes that in theory excess copper (i.e. too much cooper not bound to ceruloplasmin) can contribute to oxidative stress but the only well established syndrome is Wilson’s disease. Paradoxically both serum copper and ceruloplasmin are typically low in Wilson’s disease. But Wilson’s disease is very rare.
https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/02/03/manage-copper-status/

 

[Motif]

You can calculate you're percentage of non-ceruloplasmin bound copper. The normal reference range is 5 to 20% (in other words 80 to 95% of copper being bound to ceruloplasmin). The calculation is explained here Great Advice on Pyrrole Disorder (Pyroluria).

Chris Masterjohn believes that in theory excess copper (i.e. too much cooper not bound to ceruloplasmin) can contribute to oxidative stress but the only well established syndrome is Wilson’s disease. Paradoxically both serum copper and ceruloplasmin are typically low in Wilson’s disease. But Wilson’s disease is very rare.
https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/02/03/manage-copper-status/

Somebody was calculating for me and it wasn't that bad. That's all I remember.
My urine test over 24 hours was ok too.

Could you give me any advice what to do?

 

[Douglas Ek]

@Douglas Ek

You see... this stuff always confuses me

Induction of ceruloplasmin synthesis by retinoic acid in rats: influence of dietary copper and vitamin A status. - PubMed - NCBI
Vitamin A increases ceruloplasmin and its activities. While vitamin D in high doses depletes liver retinol and also increases blood calcium which also hinders copper absorption

Effect of taurine on toxicity of copper in rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Taurine helps rid excess unbound copper through increase in bile production from liver.

Zinc reduces ceruloplasmin so its not something you should aim for.

 

[Mito]

Somebody was calculating for me and it wasn't that bad. That's all I remember.
My urine test over 24 hours was ok too.

Could you give me any advice what to do?

I’d recommend listening to (or reading) Masterjohn’s podcast on managing your copper status. He provides some ideas in there. https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/02/03/manage-copper-status/

 

[Douglas Ek]

Somebody was calculating for me and it wasn't that bad. That's all I remember.
My urine test over 24 hours was ok too.

Could you give me any advice what to do?

I dont even think copper is your problem what was your ferritin or did i already ask this?

 

[Douglas Ek]

I’d recommend listening to (or reading) Masterjohn’s podcast on managing your copper status. He provides some ideas in there. https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/02/03/manage-copper-status/

Yes this guys knowledge is good but he's also hypothesising a lot. And in general detoxification of substances is not the problem. Youre developed with an organ that is supposed to take care of this for you. Your liver. Liver health is very dependent on vitamin A and protein. Like i mentioned previously taurine is a great amino acid for liver health as well.

 

[Mito]

Yes this guys knowledge is good but he's also hypothesising a lot. And in general detoxification of substances is not the problem. Youre developed with an organ that is supposed to take care of this for you. Your liver. Liver health is very dependent on vitamin A and protein. Like i mentioned previously taurine is a great amino acid for liver health as well.

So are you suggesting that if someone has free (non-ceruloplasmin bound) copper above 20%, then it’s likely indicative of a liver health problem?

 

[mouse]

Do you feel worse or better with more copper? There's no point hypothesizing or giving credence to calculations of copper fractions until you know this first.

I was very copper deficient due to estrogen deficiency for a number of years (I am male). Mercury chelation and Vitamin D has fixed both problems. I wasted so much time and effort believing people's opinions about copper and its supposed antagonists/synergists. The only thing that mattered is what affected my situation empirically and little of what is written on the web was relevant to me.

I found that when copper deficient, 1-3g molybdenum/day was a very quick way to confirm how terribly low I was. Now it isn't an issue.

 

[Motif]

Do you feel worse or better with more copper? There's no point hypothesizing or giving credence to calculations of copper fractions until you know this first.

I was very copper deficient due to estrogen deficiency for a number of years (I am male). Mercury chelation and Vitamin D has fixed both problems. I wasted so much time and effort believing people's opinions about copper and its supposed antagonists/synergists. The only thing that mattered is what affected my situation empirically and little of what is written on the web was relevant to me.

I found that when copper deficient, 1-3g molybdenum/day was a very quick way to confirm how terribly low I was. Now it isn't an issue.

What's the connection with molybdenum?
So you didn't take copper?

@Douglas Ek


Ferritin is in mid range. Iron is pretty high.


Why you think now copper is not my issue?

 

[Douglas Ek]

So are you suggesting that if someone has free (non-ceruloplasmin bound) copper above 20%, then it’s likely indicative of a liver health problem?

Could be since ceruloplasmin is produced by the liver. Or it could just be deficiency of co-factos needed to make ceruloplasmin

 

[Douglas Ek]

Do you feel worse or better with more copper? There's no point hypothesizing or giving credence to calculations of copper fractions until you know this first.

I was very copper deficient due to estrogen deficiency for a number of years (I am male). Mercury chelation and Vitamin D has fixed both problems. I wasted so much time and effort believing people's opinions about copper and its supposed antagonists/synergists. The only thing that mattered is what affected my situation empirically and little of what is written on the web was relevant to me.

I found that when copper deficient, 1-3g molybdenum/day was a very quick way to confirm how terribly low I was. Now it isn't an issue.

This. You wont know untill you try copper supps for awhile. Copper deficiency and estrogen deficiency have similair symptoms. Low libido, fatigue, joint problems etc. There are comnections and also the fact that zinc is an estrogen inhibitor

 

[Lutzzy]

the bad copper is called unbound copper it is copper that the body can't use so it get dumped in your organs, brain, blood vessels, it causes problems in long run

stress create problems with copper as ceruplasm has bind copper but it can't do it when stressed and when cortisol is high

you can take magnesium to lower cortisol but also do some exercise as sweating releases copper

to bind copper the adrenals have to signal to the liver so stiumlating the adrenals with exercise can help bind copper

also avoid too many copper foods and add more zinc and selenium foods to your diet like red meat/ liver

also avoid to many foods that deplete zinc like sugar and also stress

avoid copper cook ware and drinking water from copper pipes

 

[Lutzzy]

Check your water softener if it leaches too much copper into your water, I am not a fan of water softners....

 

[Milan555]

@Douglas Ek any update on how you feel after your copper/iron levels have been restored? I feel I am suffering from the same issues after taking upwards of 50mg Zinc daily last year. Since last year, I've stopped high zinc supplements, but I am still experiencing fatigue, lethargy, brain fog etc. I'm just not 100% certain that this is all a result of a low copper (with low iron) level. I sent you a direct message PM. Thank you!

 

[Douglas Ek]

Update im all fixed took copper and iron till my levels back to normal. Really dont believe the whole iron so bad crap. Sure theres evidence it can be bad. But thats with ferritin levels thats way above reference. Theres ***t tons of studies showing how people who take even moderare doses of zinc gets lower iron status within a month.

 

[Motif]

@Douglas Ek any update on how you feel after your copper/iron levels have been restored? I feel I am suffering from the same issues after taking upwards of 50mg Zinc daily last year. Since last year, I've stopped high zinc supplements, but I am still experiencing fatigue, lethargy, brain fog etc. I'm just not 100% certain that this is all a result of a low copper (with low iron) level. I sent you a direct message PM. Thank you!

@Milan555 how are you meanwhile?

 

[Milan555]

Hi everyone, I just received my latest Ferritin level back, and it's 36 (range of 30 - some high number). I'm not taking any iron supplementation.

Most Relevant Backstory

I took high levels of zinc in year 2017 (anywhere from 30-55mg daily) without any copper. The reason for the high zinc was mainly to boost free testosterone. Looking back, the period of time when I was taking zinc is when I started noticing more fatigue building up in me. And I haven't felt myself since then, and its now 2019.


Current Blood Tests:

Ferritin - 36
RBC/Hb/HCT - Normal, top of range, no anemia
TSH - 1.2
Free T3 - 3.3 (range 2-4)
Ceruloplasmin - 20 (range 20-35)
Cortisol AM - 16 (towards top of range)
Cortisol PM - saliva test shows mid-range levels and normal curve


My symptoms are the following:

- Chronic exhaustion
- Low libido
- Low motivation, focus, concentration
- hard to exercise
-poor recovery from exercise, feeling sore and achy for days afterwards
- mentally feel slow like it's just not working as fast and efficient as it should

At this point, the main thing that looks off is the Ferritin of 36. Not sure if my Ceruloplasmin level is fine, but I suspect its not since its borderline LOW.
My doctor had me do an occult stool blood test just to rule out any stool bleeding. I doubt I am having stool bleeding issues. I just can't understand why my ferritin continues to show up on the low end, and I feel lousy.

Has anyone experienced anything similar to this and figured out the cause? I know @douglasek has been through this too due to excess zinc intake.

Just trying to resolve this ferritin issue so I feel myself again. Please help!