Ideal Copper Intake May Be Higher Than What's Currently Recommended

[BigChad]

Assuming we consume 4mg copper, with those ratio’s we’d need to consume 32-48mg of zinc per day. Seems excessive to me.

Yeah zincs upper limit is 40mg, coppers is 10mg. Rda for zinc was 15mg, copper 2mg but now its been changed to 11mg zinc 0.9mg copper

 

[Dobster]

Interesting discussion all. Learning much. Thank you.

 

[sunraiser]

Copper is a metabolic stimulant in my experience.

It's limited by liver and adrenal function and it's only good for a person in the amounts they can metabolise, imo. I think only a very healthy person would be able to benefit from 4mg per day. Too much can definitely be very negative.

Also anecdotal, but heavy dopamine requiring behaviour creates a higher copper (and energy) need. I think that's why asceticism helps as it's drastically resource sparing compared to modern day pursuits like gaming or porn or other immediate access yet sustained novelty activities.

Also, I have used copper gluconate with success. My experience suggests to highly avoid amino acid chelates like glycine and taurine. They've given metabolically negative effects which skewed my perception of the impacts of given minerals when experimenting.

 

[BigChad]

Copper is a metabolic stimulant in my experience.

It's limited by liver and adrenal function and it's only good for a person in the amounts they can metabolise, imo. I think only a very healthy person would be able to benefit from 4mg per day. Too much can definitely be very negative.

Also anecdotal, but heavy dopamine requiring behaviour creates a higher copper (and energy) need. I think that's why asceticism helps as it's drastically resource sparing compared to modern day pursuits like gaming or porn or other immediate access yet sustained novelty activities.

Also, I have used copper gluconate with success. My experience suggests to highly avoid amino acid chelates like glycine and taurine. They've given metabolically negative effects which skewed my perception of the impacts of given minerals when experimenting.

what issues did you get with glycine and taurine. What issues did you note with copper bisglycinate supplements? Id imagine the amount of glycine would be very small in a 3mg copper bisglycinate capsule? maybe 30mg glycine at most?

Vitamin A is needed to properly metabolize copper right. As well as some zinc?
What if you did something like 3.5mg copper alongside 3500 IU vitamin A, 18mg iron, 22mg zinc, 180mcg chromium, b vitamins, 4.3mg manganese, four times a week. Maybe alongside some TUDCA to speed up liver function?

 

[redsun]

Copper is a metabolic stimulant in my experience.

It's limited by liver and adrenal function and it's only good for a person in the amounts they can metabolise, imo. I think only a very healthy person would be able to benefit from 4mg per day. Too much can definitely be very negative.

Also anecdotal, but heavy dopamine requiring behaviour creates a higher copper (and energy) need. I think that's why asceticism helps as it's drastically resource sparing compared to modern day pursuits like gaming or porn or other immediate access yet sustained novelty activities.

Also, I have used copper gluconate with success. My experience suggests to highly avoid amino acid chelates like glycine and taurine. They've given metabolically negative effects which skewed my perception of the impacts of given minerals when experimenting.

Pretty sure making dopamine doesn't require copper. You must be thinking of noradrenaline.

 

[BigChad]

Pretty sure making dopamine doesn't require copper. You must be thinking of noradrenaline.

ive read things like copper being a central component of the DAO enzyme which breaks down histamine. i got some histamine intolerance symptoms with long term use of vitamin c, zinc, and molybdenum

 

[redsun]

ive read things like copper being a central component of the DAO enzyme which breaks down histamine. i got some histamine intolerance symptoms with long term use of vitamin c, zinc, and molybdenum

Yes copper destroys histamine. Thats the idea of why copper overload is the main cause of low histamine.

 

[BigChad]

Yes copper destroys histamine. Thats the idea of why copper overload is the main cause of low histamine.

if you have histamine intolerance/high histamine symptoms, copper should help that right? or it could be several different minerals, vitamins involved in breaking down histamine? zinc, iron, manganese, b6, b12, c, etc

 

[redsun]

if you have histamine intolerance/high histamine symptoms, copper should help that right? or it could be several different minerals, vitamins involved in breaking down histamine? zinc, iron, manganese, b6, b12, c, etc

I would not mess with copper supplementation except if its from food and its not higher then other important trace minerals like zinc. Zinc should be much higher then copper and copper should generally be no higher then a few milligrams a day even if you want more.

 

[BigChad]

I would not mess with copper supplementation except if its from food and its not higher then other important trace minerals like zinc. Zinc should be much higher then copper and copper should generally be no higher then a few milligrams a day even if you want more.

What if you did something like 3.5mg copper bisglycinate alongside 3500 IU vitamin A, 18mg iron, 22mg zinc, 180mcg chromium, b vitamins, 4.3mg manganese, 150mcg iodine, 150mcg selenium glycinate, 150mcg molybdenum, four times a week. Maybe alongside some TUDCA to speed up liver function?
also why no copper supplementation? In liver, I'd imagine the copper would be an amino acid chelate form? glycinate, methionine or something?

 

[golder]

Tried to find ray's opinion on the best form of copper, as theres many different varieties. Can't seem to find anything on it...if anyone could help that would be amazing, thanks guys!

 

[Steven Bussinger]

vitamin a is needed for ceruloplasmin which is needed to prevent copper toxicity.

Ceruloplasmin is what makes copper useful in managing iron, but I doubt it goes very far in preventing copper toxicity. That role goes to Metallothionein (MT), which binds free copper in serum extremely well, and its production is upregulated by zinc consumption. Browsing through the literature, it seems that the only consensus on what determines (chronic) zinc toxicity is copper deficiency. Which we can take to mean: if you are copper toxic, take some zinc.

Good post. Interestingly bodybuilding guru’s always recommend 4g copper/day.

Who? I've never heard that. But I'm also no expert on bodybuilder lore.

 

[olive]

Who? I've never heard that. But I'm also no expert on bodybuilder lore.

Just to clarify, I meant 4mg not 4g.
Taeian, JP, Eugene Teo, etc. The better kind.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

Ceruloplasmin is what makes copper useful in managing iron, but I doubt it goes very far in preventing copper toxicity. That role goes to Metallothionein (MT), which binds free copper in serum extremely well, and its production is upregulated by zinc consumption. Browsing through the literature, it seems that the only consensus on what determines (chronic) zinc toxicity is copper deficiency. Which we can take to mean: if you are copper toxic, take some zinc.

Oh yeah, I should've mentioned that they use zinc in managing Wilson's disease, which is copper overload due to aberrant SNPs.