Recoen
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- Jun 8, 2020
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I thought RP advised at least 2x carbs to protein?
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Built on Peat principles, I've been averaging about 300 to 700 grams just from sugar from OJ daily for 3 years now, not counting any starch or other sources. During the hot season I definitely am closer to 700 from OJ sugar.
Built on Peat principles, I've been averaging about 300 to 700 grams just from sugar from OJ daily for 3 years now, not counting any starch or other sources. During the hot season I definitely am closer to 700 from OJ sugar.
Has he been advising people to eat more carbs? Does he disagree with his old 180-250 recommendations?
He has been advising people eat less fat. That would logically imply they are consuming either more protein or carbohydrate.
In my opinion, that going against Peats principles and is a prime example of people taking things he praises to the extreme. Don't blame Peat when your health starts to deteriorate, that's all on you.
Also, some people smoke and live past 100.
Glad you seem to be doing well, but this thread was for the people not doing well yet continuing to eat a higher than recommended carb intake.
No he means keeping calories up, in context of good metabolism. Again, he has said this before, as an example on kmud interviews. Context! About 2000 calories for a metabolically healthy person while maintaining reasonably low fat. Some may need extreme low fat to get going again.So you would rather follow a quote where you have to logically imply and read between the lines, instead of one where he gives actual figures and says look, most people need between 180-250?
This is the exact pitfall of people struggling with the "Peat diet." Thinking they know what Peat says which is contradictory to what he actually says.
He could also just mean less calories.
Thanks for the drama lol but I think the point is that there are other factors other than the definitive "you're eating too much sugar." It in fact may be a correlation which changes as health changes. If somebody had issues with pyruvate enzymes for example I would only criticize the amount of carbs in that context until they get enough nutrients and cofactors to metabolize the carbs properly. Then my tune would change regarding the carbs but only in their situation. And meanwhile the whole time I'm still leaning in an ascending way regarding carbs for that person. It's all about perspective. We know this because Peat has said on kmud for example several hundred grams and he has specifically said a range up to 350 grams in the context of good metabolism. So, try not to get caught up on the "too much carbs" idea. It is more about co-factors, nutrients, thyroid and metabolic health. In my case, I have gotten better while monitoring PUFA depletion, increasing carbs (as I said mentioned above: ascending manner), and monitoring nutrient intake. I've posted before about having struggled with crohn's 20 years ago, then about 10 years ago things just started feeling shitty again and about 6 years ago I took the bull by the horns. Sugar and carbs has only helped me.
And may be you are saying the same thing ultimately as me, it's just your post as this bent to it as the ole run of the mill "too much carbs" attitude. It ain't about that strictly speaking.
No he means keeping calories up, in context of good metabolism. Again, he has said this before, as an example on kmud interviews. Context! About 2000 calories for a metabolically healthy person while maintaining reasonably low fat. Some may need extreme low fat to get going again.
If you emphasize metabolism and/or thyroid health like that, then I am with you. But I don't remain on that side of the definitive fence because the interpretation can be iffy. My simple method, not just for myself, has been, again, in an ascending way leaning on carbs as fuel while searching for the missing nutrients while depleting PUFA carefully. I've done this with prediabetics, "auto-immune" individuals (including myself), etc. And I emphasize to go slow. If you try to build Rome in a day, it'll collapse. So in that regard it also means as you regain health or reclaim your health, go (relatively) slow with the introduction of increased carbs. Forget the carb number as that will change any way. Go by symptoms, satiety, how you feel overall. No hard and fast rule, just context and application of principle.I dont think our thoughts are that far apart.
People with the mythical "good metabolism" can get away with a lot more. What I am trying to explain is that a large amount of the people on this forum are not in this category, yet continually try to raise their carbs, or keep their carbs at colossal levels while they search for answers, all while gaining pound after pound in weight, and not realise the carbs are causing the problem in their current situation. If you say you need co factors to process the carbs. The "co factors" are so elusive, while people search for the answer, the easiest thing would be to drop the amount of carbs people are eating (temporary, if they like) while they work on healing themselves. Someone that is in bad health and constantly pushes their carbs higher and higher, and their health continues to decline, shouldnt be encouraged to raise them further. I truly believe there are people on this forum eating way more carbs than they should while their health deteriorates, but they dont think they are allowed to drop the carbs down because that is "against the Peat way."
With protein at 150g of the diet and 24% calories, this leaves 127g of fat and at 46% of the diet, all within fairly moderate and sensible amounts.
Talking about getting too much of something...150g of protein is insane for an average person. The average person's protein intake is around 50-70g (a little more for men), or 12-14%. Getting 25% protein is certainly not beneficial unless your are a true metabolic beast.
In my experience, it all depends on the person. This is an email exchange I had with Ray back in 2015 when I was misdiagnosed as not having SIBO and was having issues with most foods:
“On Feb 19, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Jennifer wrote:
“Do you think eating a diet that consists of milk, cheese, meat/shellfish, eggs, juice and small amounts of butter or coconut oil would be a nutritionally complete and healthy diet to do? After doing the fruitarian diet, I don't seem to tolerate fiber at all. It gives me a lot of painful trapped gas in my colon area. I could try the flowers of sulphur again and see if it helps, but for the time being I'm hoping to avoid fiber if I can.
On Feb 19, 2015, at 4:47 PM, Ray Peat wrote:
“I think fiber is always a risk (I avoid them all except for occasional well cooked mushrooms and bamboo shoots, which are germicidal). The foods you list contain all the essential nutrients.”
And from the Ray Peat email exchanges:
“They aren't necessary [FIBER], for example milk supports abundant bacterial growth that creates bulk, but when there are digestive and hormonal problems because of bad intestinal flora, the fibers of carrot and bamboo shoots have a disinfecting action. The carrots must be raw for that effect.“ Ray Peat
“[Fiber-free diet possible?] I’ve had a fiber-free diet for many years.“ Ray Peat
Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
When my peristalsis was weak due to poor thyroid and adrenal function, I needed fiber to facilitate elimination but since following Ray’s advice, with some of my own tweaks and starting thyroid supplementation, I cleared the SIBO and now have perfect elimination despite eating zero fiber most days. Eliminating fiber helped increase my chronically low cholesterol level so I could increase my thyroid dose and finally start overcoming issues that had plagued me since falling ill 12 years prior.
I dont think our thoughts are that far apart.
People with the mythical "good metabolism" can get away with a lot more. What I am trying to explain is that a large amount of the people on this forum are not in this category, yet continually try to raise their carbs, or keep their carbs at colossal levels while they search for answers, all while gaining pound after pound in weight, and not realise the carbs are causing the problem in their current situation. If you say you need co factors to process the carbs. The "co factors" are so elusive, while people search for the answer, the easiest thing would be to drop the amount of carbs people are eating (temporary, if they like) while they work on healing themselves. Someone that is in bad health and constantly pushes their carbs higher and higher, and their health continues to decline, shouldnt be encouraged to raise them further. I truly believe there are people on this forum eating way more carbs than they should while their health deteriorates, but they dont think they are allowed to drop the carbs down because that is "against the Peat way."
You’re welcome, @Kammas! :) Yep, it was triggering stress hormones so I had anxiety, sweating, a racing heart/palpitations, shortness of breath, elevated temps — my morning temp was up to 99° and my daytime temp, 101° — and cold feet. I had my doctor check my cholesterol level and it had dropped to 122. By eliminating fiber and clearing the SIBO, my cholesterol rose to 187, enough to add another grain of NDT.
Ohh...yeah! I’m feeling pretty awesome these days. :)dang 122 to 187, you must of felt like a completely different human hahahaha. thats amazing.