Is Peat Wrong After All? The Lyon Heart Study

[Xisca]

Context, context, context
We would not have to care if we were not living in a world with oil extracted from seeds, and if we had not, for most of us, overeaten them.
So what says RP? The context is PUFA depletion, and the problem to do it: we have to destock them and burn them, and that it is not good for our glucose burning system, if I understand properly....
If you are a hunza eating apricot seeds as your ancesters did, well please do not care reading this forum, except if you want to be convinced to not use new foreign processed stuff....

If you are spanish, please read and convince yourself to go on with olive oil and DO NOT CHANGE for aceite de semilla! They are cheaper and tempt you? Think and act....

Anyway, we cannot separate the fats (the different fatty acids) that are in 1 food, but we can choose our food to be low in ω−6, and I understand that there is a special moment after droping sunflower margarine! Because the change is not overnight. Maybe eat hemp during some time? :)

 

[Braveheart]

Some fatty acids can have hormonal and antimetabolic effects, especially linoleic acid.

Fatty diets and cancer have been studied for about 100 years, starting with Mellanby. In the 60s, researchers began studying different kinds of fats and started analyzing them independently in the 70's. What they found was that linoleic acid was highly correlated with cancer.

Stearic acid was consistently found protective.

The effect is real. This was drawn for dozens of experiments. If you want to gain a deap understanding of why this happens, you have to read about arachidonic acid, eicosanoids, and PPARγ.

Ray Peat is right about linoleic acid, but the other PUFAs aren't as bad. These can, however, contribute to the formation of lipid peroxidation and then lipofuscin (although excess iron is probably a bigger factor).

I don't think nuts are toxic, but they can shift your metabolism if you eat too many. Most foods are going to have consequences and side-effects. Linoleic acid is also, coincidentally, the one fatty acid that binds to serum albumin the strongest and displaces tryptophan the most. This is the serotonin precursor, and too much free fatty acids in the blood will lower the tryptophan binding capacity of the blood.

I usually buy coconuts, but when I go shopping tonight I think I will buy almonds because my last batch of coconuts was not that great. Only one out of the four that I bought was good (mold sometimes grows in them if they aren't shipped properly.) A 25% success rate is too low.

If you avoid excessive iron and consume lots of antioxidants, then PUFA should be less of an issue. But since linoleic acid is the only precursor to eicosanoids, you know that they must have strong metabolic effects. This is probably what killed Steve Jobs.

I used to look at risk ratios of around 1.6 for IGF-1 and prostate cancer and think, "Well, looks like dairy products could be causing this." But after looking at evidence for linoleic acid, eicosanoids, prostaglandins, and cancer, I really think that it's a bigger issue.

Like I said, a biopsy study showed like a five-fold increase in linoleic acid in prostate cancer patients. I don't think that this was a coincidence. The only source of prostaglandins is linoleic acid. These are like food-derived hormones.

The other PUFA's don't seem to really effect cancer much, but they might increase the rate of aging. You have to read about the Lipofuscin Theory of Aging. This is a good one. The same authors writes a few articles on this:

Brunk, Ulf T., and Alexei Terman. "The mitochondrial‐lysosomal axis theory of aging." The FEBS Journal 269.8 (2002): 1996-2002.

Let me see if I can find that linoleic acid prostate cancer study...here we go:

Godley, Paul A., et al. "Biomarkers of essential fatty acid consumption and risk of prostatic carcinoma." Cancer Epidemiology and Prevention Biomarkers 5.11 (1996): 889-895.

Scroll down to the risk ratios for 'whites only' (Table 4). Here, you will find a risk ratio of 9.07 for the second-highest linoleic acid group. Look how this compares with the other fatty acids measured and remember that this was the only fatty acid consistently found to greatly increase cancer in rats—in dozens of studies with no exceptions.

And then see if you can find something more correlated with prostate cancer than linoleic acid (but don't really, as that probably would be a waste of time.)

Thanks again Travis for this good information...

 

[InChristAlone]

Some fatty acids can have hormonal and antimetabolic effects, especially linoleic acid.

Fatty diets and cancer have been studied for about 100 years, starting with Mellanby. In the 60s, researchers began studying different kinds of fats and started analyzing them independently in the 70's. What they found was that linoleic acid was highly correlated with cancer.

Stearic acid was consistently found protective.

The effect is real. This was drawn for dozens of experiments. If you want to gain a deap understanding of why this happens, you have to read about arachidonic acid, eicosanoids, and PPARγ.

Ray Peat is right about linoleic acid, but the other PUFAs aren't as bad. These can, however, contribute to the formation of lipid peroxidation and then lipofuscin (although excess iron is probably a bigger factor).

I don't think nuts are toxic, but they can shift your metabolism if you eat too many. Most foods are going to have consequences and side-effects. Linoleic acid is also, coincidentally, the one fatty acid that binds to serum albumin the strongest and displaces tryptophan the most. This is the serotonin precursor, and too much free fatty acids in the blood will lower the tryptophan binding capacity of the blood.

I usually buy coconuts, but when I go shopping tonight I think I will buy almonds because my last batch of coconuts was not that great. Only one out of the four that I bought was good (mold sometimes grows in them if they aren't shipped properly.) A 25% success rate is too low.

If you avoid excessive iron and consume lots of antioxidants, then PUFA should be less of an issue. But since linoleic acid is the only precursor to eicosanoids, you know that they must have strong metabolic effects. This is probably what killed Steve Jobs.

I used to look at risk ratios of around 1.6 for IGF-1 and prostate cancer and think, "Well, looks like dairy products could be causing this." But after looking at evidence for linoleic acid, eicosanoids, prostaglandins, and cancer, I really think that it's a bigger issue.

Like I said, a biopsy study showed like a five-fold increase in linoleic acid in prostate cancer patients. I don't think that this was a coincidence. The only source of prostaglandins is linoleic acid. These are like food-derived hormones.

The other PUFA's don't seem to really effect cancer much, but they might increase the rate of aging. You have to read about the Lipofuscin Theory of Aging. This is a good one. The same authors writes a few articles on this:

Brunk, Ulf T., and Alexei Terman. "The mitochondrial‐lysosomal axis theory of aging." The FEBS Journal 269.8 (2002): 1996-2002.

Let me see if I can find that linoleic acid prostate cancer study...here we go:

Godley, Paul A., et al. "Biomarkers of essential fatty acid consumption and risk of prostatic carcinoma." Cancer Epidemiology and Prevention Biomarkers 5.11 (1996): 889-895.

Scroll down to the risk ratios for 'whites only' (Table 4). Here, you will find a risk ratio of 9.07 for the second-highest linoleic acid group. Look how this compares with the other fatty acids measured and remember that this was the only fatty acid consistently found to greatly increase cancer in rats—in dozens of studies with no exceptions.

And then see if you can find something more correlated with prostate cancer than linoleic acid (but don't really, as that probably would be a waste of time.)

When I google linoleic acid a bunch of results pop up for it's benefits even calling it vitamin F! Where did the literature go wrong! Actually a lot of the pages talked about conjugated LA which is CLA.

 

[Travis]

LOL. Linoleic acid could probably be called vitamin what-the-F?

To get to the bottom of this, I think you'd have to read the old rat studies by George and Mildred Burr. Ray Peat has already done most of the work for us, and he has the studies in the footnotes of his article Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?.

Good article by Ray Peat. A must-read.

In 1929 George and Mildred Burr published a paper claiming that unsaturated fats, and specifically linoleic acid, were essential to prevent a particular disease involving dandruff, dermatitis, slowed growth, sterility, and fatal kidney degeneration.

In 1929, most of the B vitamins and essential trace minerals were unknown to nutritionists. The symptoms the Burrs saw are easily produced by deficiencies of the vitamins and minerals that they didn't know about.

What really happens to animals when the "essential fatty acids" are lacking, in an otherwise adequate diet?

Their metabolic rate is very high.

Their nutritional needs are increased.

They are very resistant to many of the common causes of sickness and death.

They are resistant to the biochemical and cellular changes seen in aging, dementia, autoimmunity, and the main types of inflammation.

The amount of polyunsaturated fatty acids often said to be essential (Holman, 1981) is approximately the amount required to significantly increase the incidence of cancer, and very careful food selection is needed for a diet that provides a lower amount.

 

[Pompadour]

In this article Vascular effects of the Mediterranean diet-part II: role of omega-3 fatty acids and olive oil polyphenols. - PubMed - NCBI the authors describe fat composition of Mediterranean diet as follows:

Table 1 Traditional Mediterranean diet in terms of lipid factors.

1 Saturated fat intake: low but not very low
2 Monounsaturated fat intake: very high
3 ω-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid intake: very low
4 Plant ω-3 polyunsaturated fat intake: high but not very high
5 Marine ω-3 polyunsaturated fat intake: variable 6 Trans fatty acid intake: very low (possibly none at all)

And they also say:

As an example, mutual interactions between polyphenols and ω-3 PUFAs have recently been observed. The addition of polyphenols during the active digestion of fatty fish may limit the formation of ω-3 PUFAs oxidation products in the small intestine and therefore promote the intestinal uptake of beneficial unoxidized ω-3 PUFAs

 

[Xisca]

Many thanks for this Pompadour!
This confirm also my main theory that where ever humans have evolved, they have found ways to compensate drawbacks coming from certain foods. Right mixes are very important, and you can f*** a diet by just removing something that you think "non important".

It seems that just refining olive oil or replacing it by canola or what else, would ruin the meditarranean diet... Maybe not short term, but long term bad. That is why we do not notice so easily what is bad in our ways of eatig - and living in general - that comes from the fact that our bodies are so dam strong and resistant at finding new pathways to solve the problems we put them in!