2 Quarts Of Milk Has 1.2 Mg Of Iodine; Enough To Suppress The Thyroid And Cause Acne In Many

Discussion in 'Doubts About Milk' started by brigadierbarty, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. MyUsernameHere

    MyUsernameHere Member

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    Curezone is loaded with dangerous advice and dumb people - iodine acne has probably far more to do with its antagonistic effect on estrogen (thereby promoting androgenic effect) than anything to do with a bromide detox of any sort...

    hormones
     
  2. OP
    brigadierbarty

    brigadierbarty Member

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    I agree with you on curezone, but where are you getting this estrogen/iodine link from?
     
  3. chrismeyers

    chrismeyers Member

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    I have to laugh. Dude comes on here talking about a gram of iodine in crazy troll fashion in the topic header. He then makes all kinds of spurious links between iodine intake and acne. For the record, there seems to be no definitive correlation with people feeling iodine deficiency as likely to cause it as excess iodine. Then he tries to paint the iodine in milk as anti Peat when Peat encourages you to drink as much as milk as you want. And finally he seems to completely ignore the fact that a hell of a lot of people in the West are iodine deficient and in the miniscule doses it exists in milk is likely beneficial to virtually everybody. That dog dont hunt. You havent found something new and novel. Youve taken one line in a Peat article and conflated it to ridiculous levels.
     
  4. OP
    brigadierbarty

    brigadierbarty Member

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    You're experiencing cognitive dissonance, and directly contradicting what Peat has explicitly said about iodine. He says deficiency is uncommon, you say a hell of a lot of people are deficient; you say milk has a minuscule amount of iodine, I show that it has 900mcg, which Peat says can cause problems. You're holding two contradictory beliefs and this causes you discomfort; that discomfort is called cognitive dissonance.

    My point is that Peat may be unaware of the iodine levels found in milk. I'm wondering if he has addressed this, and what he would say if he knew about it. Maybe as metabolism improves, one is able to tolerate higher doses of iodine. Perhaps someone who is in touch with him could bring this to his attention?
     
  5. Peater Piper

    Peater Piper Member

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    This seems odd. A lot of people experience negative physical symptoms shortly after consuming dairy. It can also have some unwanted endocrine effects. Studies confirm this. Doesn't mean it's bad for everyone, but there's a lot of people that have trouble with it, whether it's due to their own health problems, genetic factors, sibo, or something else.

    I don't believe iodine in dairy is an issue (I'd expect the acne reaction in some people is due to potent stimulation of endogenous IGF-1 production due to casein, or maybe some of the hormones that come packed with dairy), but Peat's been pretty down on iodine, and is of the opinion that almost no one in the USA is iodine deficient.

    “A dosage of 150 mcg (micrograms, not milligrams, e.g., ug not mg) is a safe amount of iodine. There are excellent references describing the effect of a moderate iodine excess (even below a milligram per day) on the thyroid. An iodine deficiency can cause hypothyroidism (rare now), but so can an excess. Iodine deficiency is an unusual cause of hypothyroidism, except in a few places, like the mountains of Mexico and China, and the Andes."
     
  6. MyUsernameHere

    MyUsernameHere Member

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    For God's sake, it's right there on the page I linked to you.
    hormones

    If that still does not convince you, google "iodine fibrocystic breasts".
    See the amount of women who experience improvement in symptoms of that condition, just like from progesterone...hint hint, both antagonize estrogen.
    Iodine is not an "all bad" thing. When people assume that only the thyroid gland needs iodine, they are also wrong.
     
  7. chrismeyers

    chrismeyers Member

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    There is so much wrong in the silly simplistic
    correlation you think youve made. First of all Peats comments on iodine were aimed at the high dose iodine supplementation that was all the rage then. Ray Peat knows better than anybody about how iodine is crucial to many processes in the body. Youve cherry picked one line in article, interpreted it wrong, pulled out one high end number of a milk sample analysis, and then proceeded to come to a bogus conclusion based on simplistic thinking. Iodine deficiency is not a theory. It affects societies at a mass scale in less developed countries as it did in the West.
     
  8. OP
    brigadierbarty

    brigadierbarty Member

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    Sorry I'm new to the forum and my eye didn't catch it. You're referencing the work of the iodine docs Brownstein, Flechas, and Abraham, who recommend megadoses of iodine. For example, Peat recommends 150mcg iodine, whereas these guys recommend milligrams if not tens of milligrams of iodine. Their recommendations are pseudoscientific at best and perhaps predatory, not to mention anti-Peat, and are responsible for the iodine nonsense on curezone I mentioned. Peat addresses them here

    The Myth of Iodine Deficiency: An Interview with Dr. Ray Peat – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

    Also, looking at some of those studies, many of them use Lugol's iodine (even in vitro!), which contains molecular iodine (I2), which is very different from the iodide (I-) found in food. If you could link me to a particular study you're thinking of, I'd appreciate it.
     
  9. Kyle M

    Kyle M Member

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    Interesting. What about classic cases of acne like during the teenage years, is iodine metabolism changing then?
     
  10. OP
    brigadierbarty

    brigadierbarty Member

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    IME the acne of adolescence is slightly different than the acne caused by iodine. When I was a teenager I had pretty ordinary pimples that came to a head, whereas the acne caused by iodine did not - it left scars, and seemed to be deeper. Cystic acne I guess. I'm not sure that the mechanisms have much in common.

    B12 for example causes acne in a minority of people, and does so by stimulating bacteria on the face to produce porphyrins, which then cause pimples. I think acne can have a lot of different root causes.
     
  11. Kyle M

    Kyle M Member

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    I had both cystic and head forming acne as a teen.
     
  12. Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    Nobody underlined enough that the problem is not milk in itself but the way cows are treated.
    Maybe Peat talks about milk in itself and did not take into account the iodine content, as this is artificial and not inherent of milk.
    I did have problems with dairies when I lived in continental Europe and not since I live in a place with natural animals.

    When I was 20 and a student, I "cured" my boyfriend's acne by removing dairies and sugar from our diet.... He clearly had this deep form that left hom with scars.
    We had fruits and honey though. Also I made him eat a lot of salads, and in 3 months the difference was enough to convince him, well the 1st results were even faster, or else he would not have gone on.

    I also had some pimples clearly the day after eating any pastry or sweet dairy. This problem stayed until I removed starches, and then I could eat sugar without getting any pimple.
     
  13. Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    Today I was just starting to get interested in iodine and iodide, to understand how this all work and how to know what to eat, I do not want to have too much! I know I have been treated with lugol before, as I had some deficiency.
    It is very difficult to know how to get the right amount of iodine!

    And welcome to this new member, and please respect that anyone can come with such questions and ask for answers, about a theory that needs to be investigated, even if there is no clear answer about what can participate in acne, and why milk! It seems a good question, to know if Peat has talked about the problem of milk having more iodine than milk the Masaï or the hindous have in their traditional dairies!

    I think the question is relevant, especially is this has to do with artificial quantity of iodine, no hostility about supposed contest to a staple food for many....

    Also, I would like to know if Europe has the same problem, so we can guess more about where is the connection between acne and dairies, as for sure there CAN be, for SOME people at least.
     
  14. chrismeyers

    chrismeyers Member

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    Even with a more natural reduced iodine content, ruminant milks provide about 40% of the daily consumption of iodine in the European diet, this is an integral part of getting sufficient iodine. Do you know how the west conquered iodine deficiency, goiters, and thyroid dysfunction that plagues the developing world? Two factors, higher than average ruminant milk use per capita per year, and iodized salt. That is why there is virtually no goiter left in the west. And let me point out, and this is crucial, that not only is ruminant milk necessary for the iodine in it, even by itself it isnt sufficient as far as the intake goes. So far from being something you want to avoid, it is a percentage of what you need. Do you know what the commonality is of all the remaining countries with goiter is? Lower milk consumption and non iodized salt. Talking about taking away milk for the tiny of amount of iodine it has in it would result in even less and substandard levels of iodine. There is fine line between not enough and too much, and milk provides a percentage just to reach enough.
     
  15. OP
    brigadierbarty

    brigadierbarty Member

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    Ok, you've walked back from "a hell of a lot of people in the west are iodine deficient" to "it affects societies at a mass scale in less developed countries as it did in the West", which I can agree with. We're making progress. But there is yet more cognitive dissonance for us to work through.

    I did not pull one high end number from the analysis. They tested 18 different brands of milk found in stores in the Boston metro area, and I used the mean value they found to get a daily intake of 900mcg.

    I did not "cherry pick one line". I quoted the relevant part of the article. The full text of the article is freely available online, so feel free to quote any other parts you think are important. Keep in mind the lowest value they found was 88mcg per cup. This yields about 700mcg per day.

    Also, please explain how my conclusion is "bogus". Here is what Peat says about intakes of 900mcg iodine per day: "There are excellent references describing the effect of a moderate iodine excess (even below a milligram per day) on the thyroid."
     
  16. OP
    brigadierbarty

    brigadierbarty Member

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    The study pertains to the US, I'm not sure if iodine is used for sterilization of udders in Europe. It's possible that 2 quarts of milk daily in Europe does not pose a risk of iodine excess. If you're in Europe you may want to look for studies like this that check the iodine content.
     
  17. chrismeyers

    chrismeyers Member

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    I can tell you exactly how its wrong. Ray Peats assumptions as a starting point are ruminant milk consumption, and iodized salt already factored in as a baseline. Read my previous post. Ruminant milk is infact quite necessary and at the low levels of iodine that milk has it has provides about, as I said about 40% of the diet. Ray Peat knows and everyone knows that virtually 100% of processed food in America contains iodized salt, and he knows what the average ruminant milk percentage of the diet in the west is. That is infact why he says more supplementation is not necessary. As I said, youve simplified it to the point of stupidity because its all you can seem to easily grasp and youre making ridiculous asessments based on it. Oh ray peat says this number, and then you go and google iodine content in milk and then make a simple connection. Your fundamental flaw is that you dont realize that even with milk, and if you reduce processed foods and salts, youre not going to get enough iodine. Btw your numbers are bogus. Im looking at multiple studies and all have about half your claimed iodine per liter. Its a perfect storm of stupidity. Literal interpretation of a number from a Peat comment for which you have absolutely no context for, and then matching that up with cherry picked high sample results. This is what Ray Peat would tell you in response.
     
  18. Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    That is why I am happy with this topic, as I realized just today that excess could also cause hypothyroidism!

    I would clearly like to get numbers about iodine in natural cows, and udder treated cows....
    Is there also a difference between all ruminant? Is goat milk different?

    BTW, when I could not eat dairies some years ago, I had to supplement with lugol, and at this period, though I also was too low in D3, i was clearly craving sea food, especially oysters and other shells. I think that when we are in contact with our bodies, we can crave what we need (poor children who crave sweet things and are made to fill with starches....).
     
  19. Xisca

    Xisca Member

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    I am quite upset when I read about stupidity etc, as even if one is wrong, showing up and share is already interesting.
    More over op is talking about personal experience and tries to share so that some people who experience the same can have some clues, and look for more.
    We all know we are not the same but can have things in common too, and primary 1st hand experience is what we can value most in a forum!
    This is a suspicion, and you do not say that milk cause problems, but iodine. Did you test a reaction with something else than milk?
     
  20. OP
    brigadierbarty

    brigadierbarty Member

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    Yes, I've actually never had a problem with milk, probably because I've never gone over about 3 cups per day. I've experimented with potassium iodide, which caused acne.

    BTW I agree with you that this is just an issue of how iodine is used to sanitize udders. The problem is not with the milk itself. Eg the situation for you in Spain may be completely different.
     
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