Very Low Fat Peat Diet And Physical Changes

AJC

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Hello all,

I've recently switched to a Very Low Fat Peat-style Diet after reading some articles and many very helpful posts on this forum and other related blogs.

I came to this diet from a diet of lots of fish, grains, raw whole milk, and fruit. It was moderate to high fat, low to medium protein.

Immediately upon making the switch to this style diet I had a huge jump in energy, a return to sharper thinking, and more zest for life and work. Overall, I've been feeling awesome.

My temperature and pulse have been rising throughout. I've been tracking food as well: eating around 3000-4000 calories daily, at about 600 g carbs coming from OJ (lots), milk sugar, white sugar, some other fruit, and the occasional potato. I've been getting around 180-200 g protein more or less exclusively from skim milk (around 100 ounces daily at least), with the occasional can of oysters. My fat intake has been around 1 tbsp of coconut oil, so around 2% of daily calories. I've also been drinking ample coffee with my meals, which also feels great. I haven't gained any fat, but have actually gained a little muscle, as I've been engaging in moderate exercise. 22 years old, with hypothyroid type symptoms (temperature usually 97-98, pulse usually 70-80), but healthy aside from that as far as I can tell.

So, those are all the good changes I've noticed since implementing this diet 10 days ago. Now, throughout this time I've also been experiencing bouts of "diarhhea" after meals. It comes and goes. I put it into quotes because it's usually not watery, but it comes on with the urgency of diarrhea and it's usually right after a meal. Accompanying this is GI "rumbling" and extra gas. Over the past two days as well, I've had a couple of headaches and joint pain, which I usually don't get.

These seem like minor concerns, and for the tradeoff in energetic boost I've been feeling they are totally worth it. However, I wanted to bring them up in my situation and ask everyone if they have any experience with them, and to make sure they aren't signs of a deeper problem. Some possible explanations I've been turning around in my head:

1) Allergic reaction to the skim milk I've been drinking.
--I've never really had milk allergies in the past as far as I can tell, but I'm used to drinking raw whole milk, not pasteurized skim milk.

2) Hypervitaminosis from the synthetic Vitamin A and Vitamin D added to the milk.
--This is more of a concern to me, and I'm working on finding a better skim milk source that doesn't have these extras in them. Any recommendations here would be much appreciated.

3) Excessive urea production and failure to excrete it.
--Again, this is more of a concern to me. I'm coming from a low to moderate protein diet of 50g protein on average, and have been consuming around 180g daily since implementing the Peat style diet. I'm no expert on the physiology of this particular pathway, but it seems others have been ables to eat this much protein with no problem, and I am looking to spare and preferably build muscle in the process of this low fat diet. Any knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

4) Headaches and Joint Pain as a side effect of dumping PUFAs and Estrogen.
--With such a rapid shift to the new diet, it seems possible I'm undergoing a relatively quick PUFA depletion, and these are simply some of the side effects of that dumping. Any recommendations for dealing with it would be great, as well as any relevant experiences with something like this.

5) Heavy metal dumping
--I'm on a nutrition supplement program designed to allow me to slowly dump heavy metals from my body (Nutritional Balancing as practiced by Trace elements Labs). My dumps honestly smell like metal at times, or a chemical toxin at times, so it seems possible to me that the metabolic boost I'm experiencing is stimulating a further house-cleaning. Also, the way PUFAs, estrogen, and toxic levels of copper interact also makes this hypothesis possible in my eyes.

I'm open to hearing any experiences or advice or speculation on what I've written about. I'm also open to providing more information (food logs, health history, supplements, etc.) that could help. This forum has been an amazing resource so far, and I'm looking forward to getting off the sidelines and stepping onto the field with everyone.

Cheers
 

tara

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:welcome AJC

Glad you are getting some good results.
I don't know what is happening to cause the troublesome symptoms, and it could be one or more of your hypotheses. Another few of possible factors could be:
- Your gut is adjusting to the change in diet, and that is contributing to trouble, possibly transient during adjustment.
- Some people have ongoing trouble with orange juice - either because of quality/ripeness issues or unfiltered fibre in it, or for other reasons more intrinsic to oranges. So if OJ is new to your diet, or new to have in large quantities, this could be one factor. Consider trying other brands or squeezing your own if you are not, or ?
- I don't think you would be the first to report joint pain on a very low fat diet. You could consider increasing it a little and see if that makes a difference.
- How's the fluid balance? Are you peeing clear and frequent or orange and infrequent? Either over - or underhydration can trigger headaches for some of us. - I speculate that a diet that is very low in fat and starch may require more frequent feeding to keep blood glucose levels in a good range? Sudden drps can be one way to get stress and for some of it can trigger headaches.
Are you salting to taste and cravings?
Haidut has a post discussing issues with protein metabolites/excess. I guess you could experiment with this by having a bit less - eg 120g protein instead of 180g for a few days and seeing if it makes a difference. I'm not saying 180 is definitely too much - it may be just what you need - but maybe worth a trial if you you are suffering.
 
OP
AJC

AJC

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Thanks for the welcome and ideas Tara, do you happen to have a link to Haidut's post? I did a quick search, but only saw the subject of excess protein with not enough sugar, which I don't think is my problem, as I'm getting roughly 3 times as much sugar as protein. See my update below though...

Some responses and updates:

All of the factors you mentioned are in my awareness--fluid balance seems to be fine, I'm definitely doing frequent feedings which keeps my body and mind happy and energized, OJ source and milk source I'm gonna work on, salt--to taste, seems to help fluid retention and calmness...

Some things I've noticed, and forgot to mention in my top post are

1) Headaches/joint pain only come on in the late afternoon and evening after a day of frequent feeding and lots of energy
2) Urine---this has been interesting, and I'm not exactly sure what to make of it: color and frequency is roughly the same as before, but there's an odd smell to it. This smell is not necessarily occurring only since starting this diet, but it's been coming on more frequently. The best way I can describe the smell is it smells "fishy"....makes me wonder if the whole glucoronidation of PUFAs and excretion through urine is taking place.
3) Perhaps the most relevant: When I sweat in the morning, it's been normal. However, when I sweat in the evening time it has a slight smell of urine to it, which makes me think the problem could stem from excess protein consumption. I'm gonna monitor that and see if anything changes.
 

tara

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lampofred

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How much milk are you drinking? I'm perfectly fine up to around 8-10 cups of milk a day, but if I go up to 14-16, I get that rumbling in my stomach accompanied by gas and loose stools. I think everyone has a different amount of lactase, so your issue might be due to too much milk.

I also have gotten joint pain/headaches in the past and think that it may have had something to do with estrogen/serotonin/prolactin/cortisol because of insufficient fuel to support my metabolism. (I know that's a lot of hormones, but I think these stress hormones often go up and down together.) I need around 3500 calories to feel optimal if I'm eating around 50g of fat a day. What I've found in my own experience is that fat intake is inversely correlated to metabolism (both PUFA and saturated fat), so if you're getting that little fat, you might need more fuel.

^^^These are purely my own hypotheses, not Peat's
 
OP
AJC

AJC

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sounds like to much OJ...?

Yeah, this didn't really seem like a possibility to me before, but after some experimentation, it seems that while milk may give me some GI rumbling, OJ many times brings on full blown diarrhea... I'm experimenting with different brands of OJ, and some seem to be better than others in this regard.

How much milk are you drinking? I'm perfectly fine up to around 8-10 cups of milk a day, but if I go up to 14-16, I get that rumbling in my stomach accompanied by gas and loose stools. I think everyone has a different amount of lactase, so your issue might be due to too much milk.

I also have gotten joint pain/headaches in the past and think that it may have had something to do with estrogen/serotonin/prolactin/cortisol because of insufficient fuel to support my metabolism. (I know that's a lot of hormones, but I think these stress hormones often go up and down together.) I need around 3500 calories to feel optimal if I'm eating around 50g of fat a day. What I've found in my own experience is that fat intake is inversely correlated to metabolism (both PUFA and saturated fat), so if you're getting that little fat, you might need more fuel.

^^^These are purely my own hypotheses, not Peat's

Nearly a gallon. I'm trying to experiment with this as well, trying to keep protein at least moderately high, but I don't really have too many alternatives besides milk and occasional oysters. Any suggestions?

:welcome AJC

I have found that a couple of teaspoons of CO seems to make me feel a bit more "grounded" and balanced after I eat them, so I may try adding more, while keeping fat generally low. I don't think I've been getting anywhere near over 5% fat a day over the past two weeks or so, which is a sharp contrast to my previous diet, so this could have something to do with it as well.

Glad you are getting some good results.
I don't know what is happening to cause the troublesome symptoms, and it could be one or more of your hypotheses. Another few of possible factors could be:
- Your gut is adjusting to the change in diet, and that is contributing to trouble, possibly transient during adjustment.
- Some people have ongoing trouble with orange juice - either because of quality/ripeness issues or unfiltered fibre in it, or for other reasons more intrinsic to oranges. So if OJ is new to your diet, or new to have in large quantities, this could be one factor. Consider trying other brands or squeezing your own if you are not, or ?
- I don't think you would be the first to report joint pain on a very low fat diet. You could consider increasing it a little and see if that makes a difference.
- How's the fluid balance? Are you peeing clear and frequent or orange and infrequent? Either over - or underhydration can trigger headaches for some of us. - I speculate that a diet that is very low in fat and starch may require more frequent feeding to keep blood glucose levels in a good range? Sudden drps can be one way to get stress and for some of it can trigger headaches.
Are you salting to taste and cravings?
Haidut has a post discussing issues with protein metabolites/excess. I guess you could experiment with this by having a bit less - eg 120g protein instead of 180g for a few days and seeing if it makes a difference. I'm not saying 180 is definitely too much - it may be just what you need - but maybe worth a trial if you you are suffering.
 

lampofred

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Nearly a gallon. I'm trying to experiment with this as well, trying to keep protein at least moderately high, but I don't really have too many alternatives besides milk and occasional oysters. Any suggestions?

Cheese and gelatin?
 

Blossom

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A couple of cheese ideas are low-fat cottage cheese without additives (Daisy brand is one I'm aware of in the U.S.) or you could make your own farmers cheese. There is a link to a recipe in this thread,
Farmers Cheese Discussion
 

Remedy

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5) Heavy metal dumping
--I'm on a nutrition supplement program designed to allow me to slowly dump heavy metals from my body (Nutritional Balancing as practiced by Trace elements Labs). My dumps honestly smell like metal at times, or a chemical toxin at times, so it seems possible to me that the metabolic boost I'm experiencing is stimulating a further house-cleaning. Also, the way PUFAs, estrogen, and toxic levels of copper interact also makes this hypothesis possible in my eyes.

What supplements? Honestly, reading this prompted me to stop lurking, because I've dealt with mercury, and if the instruction you're receiving about heavy metals and chelation is based on anything other than the Cutler Protocol, you're practically guaranteed to be harming yourself. You would almost certainly be taking a chelator -- alpha lipoic acid, DMSA, DMPS, EDTA, cilantro, glutathione, NAC, copious high-sulfur foods -- and, without abiding what is outlined in the Cutler Protocol, you would repeatedly be causing something called "mercury redistribution", which eventually leads to various symptoms, a characteristic one of which is headache, but with joint aches and diarrhea also plausible. Do a search for " cutler protocol onibasu " to get a good site covering the Cutler Protocol -- I'd link it, but being new I'm informed I can't post links -- and see if anything interests or applies to you.
 
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AJC

AJC

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What supplements? Honestly, reading this prompted me to stop lurking, because I've dealt with mercury, and if the instruction you're receiving about heavy metals and chelation is based on anything other than the Cutler Protocol, you're practically guaranteed to be harming yourself. You would almost certainly be taking a chelator -- alpha lipoic acid, DMSA, DMPS, EDTA, cilantro, glutathione, NAC, copious high-sulfur foods -- and, without abiding what is outlined in the Cutler Protocol, you would repeatedly be causing something called "mercury redistribution", which eventually leads to various symptoms, a characteristic one of which is headache, but with joint aches and diarrhea also plausible. Do a search for " cutler protocol onibasu " to get a good site covering the Cutler Protocol -- I'd link it, but being new I'm informed I can't post links -- and see if anything interests or applies to you.

Very interesting, thank you for the concern and advice. Actually the protocol I'm on is specifically NOT chelation, it is more about mineral replacement. It's called Nutritional Balancing--as practiced by TEI and Dr. Malter, not Dr. Wilson. Details are on www.nutritionalbalancing.org. I'll check out the info you sent me.
 
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2) Hypervitaminosis from the synthetic Vitamin A and Vitamin D added to the milk.
--This is more of a concern to me, and I'm working on finding a better skim milk source that doesn't have these extras in them. Any recommendations here would be much appreciated.

There have been reported cases of vitamin D overdose from a milk factory mistake. I'lll never drink milk with any vitamins added. I have a fear of D overdose. All is takes is a few extra drops and it's tasteless. You can become hypercalcemic.
 

schultz

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2) Hypervitaminosis from the synthetic Vitamin A and Vitamin D added to the milk.
--This is more of a concern to me, and I'm working on finding a better skim milk source that doesn't have these extras in them. Any recommendations here would be much appreciated.

I wouldn't worry about this. Since your fat is so low you likely don't absorb much since they're fat soluble.
 
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All is takes is a few extra drops and it's tasteless. You can become hypercalcemic.

Wow, I never heard of this. Drinking a half gallon of commercial skim milk with synthetic vitamins definitely caused me some major brain issues, felt like excitotoxicity...but it could have been some sort of immunological response, I simply don't know.

I'm now drinking a half gallon of local raw goat (no added vitamins) milk per day and it doesn't trigger the brain issues at all....but it's not low fat :oops:.
 
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Wow, I never heard of this. Drinking a half gallon of commercial skim milk with synthetic vitamins definitely caused me some major brain issues, felt like excitotoxicity...but it could have been some sort of immunological response, I simply don't know.

I'm now drinking a half gallon of local raw goat (no added vitamins) milk per day and it doesn't trigger the brain issues at all....but it's not low fat :oops:.

See here, 1991 in MA from a dairy plant:

Vegetarian Times
 

Tarmander

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I have been doing a lot of rice lately, and have been getting some good results. Pretty low fat. I have had a lot of the same changes the OP posted. I find the only way to get the amount of rice down needed to reach calorie requirements is to lather it with honey. So lots of Rice and Honey. One thing that has cropped up though is a seemingly sensitivity to protein. Anyone else experience this? If I do more then a couple eggs in the morning and about a cup of milk, I have horrible insomnia and a stress reaction. If I stick to just the carbs, I am okay. @Westside PUFAs You experienced anything like this?
 

DaveFoster

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I have been doing a lot of rice lately, and have been getting some good results. Pretty low fat. I have had a lot of the same changes the OP posted. I find the only way to get the amount of rice down needed to reach calorie requirements is to lather it with honey. So lots of Rice and Honey. One thing that has cropped up though is a seemingly sensitivity to protein. Anyone else experience this? If I do more then a couple eggs in the morning and about a cup of milk, I have horrible insomnia and a stress reaction. If I stick to just the carbs, I am okay. @Westside PUFAs You experienced anything like this?
Are you still eating rice in large amounts, Tarmander?
 

Elysium

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The slow gaining of weight on a very low fat Peat diet was stopped once I reintroduced bits of coconut oil to most meals.

I think the black and white notion of carb vs fat so many people here gravitate towards is unhealthy, unnatural and non-Peaty. The way many people interpret the Randle cycle, the cartoonish one-or-the-other, is a huge oversimplification. Nature is way more complex than that. Restricting any macro nutrient close to zero is unfounded. The focus should be on the quality and sufficient supply of macro nutrients, not on their elimination.

Also, malnutrition is way too often mistaken for slimness and fitness. Stuffing your face with nutritionally devoid rice and adding almost equally nutritionally devoid honey just to reach caloric targets...where are the nutrient gonna come from? And how will they absorb, without fat? And what do you think is insulin going to do with all that unbuffered glucose overload?
 
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Peat never has advocated very low fat, but rather a mix of fat carbs and protein.

I'm doing very low fat weekdays, about 10g per day, but eating a bit more fat on weekends. Seems to be helping me so far to lose body fat. And I feel good.
 

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