The Cause Of Baldness

[Zigzag]

I receded the most when I DIDN'T EAT meat. It was during the time when my diet consisted of pasta, bread and beans... Also I can't imagine not eating some meat, expecially chicken breasts. I would never get at least 100g of protein that easily and maintain good caloric balance during the day (all the other sources have much more calories)

 

[rr1]

I receded the most when I DIDN'T EAT meat, also I can't imagine not eating it.

You don't have to not eat it, and I don't think anyone here is recommending to not eat it. Just be wary of the expensive cuts of meat, and try to stick to the tougher cuts that contain more gelatin and less cysteine and tryptophan. You can also consume some gelatin alongside the meat.

 

[brix]

My temps are generally like that but I cant solve the freezing feet issue. Its literally always cold at mornings and till afternoon. So weird.

What do you eat for breakfast ?

My cold feet issue resolved with k2. I can drink coffee on an empty stomach now and not eat for several hours in the AM with no stress reaction.

 

[Pablo Cruise]

Appreciate the comments. I expressed some frustration but there is no site that discusses this subject with scientific findings like here. Hopefully some of the conversations help some. Sure I continue to read and assess but I cannot change my impressions.

 

[wavelength123]

Yeah same, I’ll Always have some meat but I’d rather prioritize vegetarian sources and gelatinous cuts. I like my Buffalo wings with bones and skin please.

from Ray’s gelatin article

Inflammation produces fibrosis, because stress, hypoxia, and inadequate supply of glucose stimulate the fibroblasts to produce increased amounts of collagen.

cue those protruding balding XL skulls? Note - Joe Rogan always defaults back to eating pasta, bread and whatnot on top of his meat. Dude does everything wrong and it shows. But in many people’s case I’d say starch is by and large the biggest serotonin culprit.

igf1 is worth emphasizing and high protein diets increase it far more than high calories. In other words protein restriction drops igf1 more than caloric restriction (thank god, the latter sucks). Milk is pro igf1 of course. Mk677 got my scalp insanely greasy and triggered insomnia which I believe comes from the ghrelin-cortisol-growth hormone-igf1 relationship.

So don’t starve yourselves people, whatever Kinobody says. Maybe restricting PROTEIN consumption might be worth trying. From what I’ve seen of him he doesn’t even eat much protein up until dinner. Very flexible diet with pleasurable snacks and so on. It might be a bigger factor than his 16/8 neurotic stuff.

when only the muscle meats are eaten, the amino acid balance entering our blood stream is the same as that produced by extreme stress, when cortisol excess causes our muscles to be broken down to provide energy and material for repair. The formation of serotonin is increased by the excess tryptophan in muscle, and serotonin stimulates the formation of more cortisol, while the tryptophan itself, along with the excess muscle-derived cysteine, suppresses the thyroid function.

I can’t count how many hundreds of people I’ve seen online go on a “healthy” diet of starches (mostly refined FWIW), lean muscle meat, greens, and destroy themselves in the process.

Well this last weekend I randomly decided to drink a gallon of the most basic whole milk both days + some high calorie meals (meat free) and I dropped 5 pounds. Just an experiment. Makes me wonder how much water retention (and digestive stress) I’m getting from all the serotonin in “healthy” diets.

 

[wavelength123]

Note how three weeks at .95g/kg proved sufficient to drop igf1 by 20%, with subsequent improvement in the igf1:igfbp3 ratio

Long-term effects of calorie or protein restriction on serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 concentration in humans

clearly the whole “(c)lean” protein industry is a major health problem considering its pro aging virtues

 

[wavelength123]

Example of a meat free bodybuilder, and we all know how they inject tons of potent androgens. No eggs either. TONS of milk and whey apparently.

TIL about Varinder Ghuman - one of world’s first vegetarian bodybuilders : bodybuilding

solid hair and skin for someone who’s nearly 40. I know it’s an N=1 but still: so many BBers whether modern or golden era who don’t go for the mega high starch low fat high chicken breast BS and happen to have hair like a teenager.

 

[mrchibbs]

Example of a meat free bodybuilder, and we all know how they inject tons of potent androgens. No eggs either. TONS of milk and whey apparently.

TIL about Varinder Ghuman - one of world’s first vegetarian bodybuilders : bodybuilding

solid hair and skin for someone who’s nearly 40. I know it’s an N=1 but still: so many BBers whether modern or golden era who don’t go for the mega high starch low fat high chicken breast BS and happen to have hair like a teenager.

He looks real good. Obviously gets a good balance in his food, and with all that milk he's not getting an excess of phosphate vs. calcium, and so his parathyroid and prolactin are probably quite low.

One thing which is forgotten in this discussion of the effect of food and lifestyle however, is the component of heredity (I said heredity not genetics). Some people just have a better physiological state to start with, which is why we have to be careful since we can't readily compare one person to another. He's Indian, so I'm willing to bet his inherited physiological state is better than most westerners, especially since he's in his late 30s, he's probably not dealing with the transgenerational effects that late millennial and gen Z have.

But he looks really healthy, like the bodybuilders of the 70s.

 

[lvysaur]

He's Indian, so I'm willing to bet his inherited physiological state is better than most westerners, especially since he's in his late 30s, he's probably not dealing with the transgenerational effects that late millennial and gen Z have.

Indian food is far worse than western food in nearly every way imaginable. Drenched in PUFA, unsprouted lentils/beans, low protein. The only saving grace is fruit. And dairy but westerners have that too.

Indians (and Africans) also naturally produce more arachidonic acid in their tissues, it's a hot climate adaptation. This makes the situation even worse for them.

 

[mrchibbs]

Indian food is far worse than western food in nearly every way imaginable. Drenched in PUFA, unsprouted lentils/beans, low protein. The only saving grace is fruit. And dairy but westerners have that too.

Indians (and Africans) also naturally produce more arachidonic acid in their tissues, it's a hot climate adaptation. This makes the situation even worse for them.

Not convinced. This may be true today, but 30 or 40 years ago, when this guy was born? I suspect he was eating mostly ghee, dairy, cooked leafy greens, things like that, and fruit. And the inherited physiological tendencies from his parents, grandparents etc.

You're right, India, like China and the rest of Asia (except to a relative extent Japan and South Korea) has been on trajectory of metabolic decline via globalization and their rapid industrialization, and yes today they have probably replaced much of the traditional cooking oils and mediums with vegetable oils, and maybe they don't sprout their beans/lentils anymore. But I suspect that most of this change has occurred since the 1990s.

 

[wavelength123]

... and interestingly enough hair clinics are booming in Asia now. So much for genetics. Give them another generation or two and they’ll be as degenerate as more westernized countries. They’ll have the same levels of stress, the same health “authorities” pushing for massive amounts of starch all day, and everything will be GREAT /s

Note that most eastern bodybuilders look much healthier than current westerners. When people say genetics I think environment...

 

[Zigzag]

... and interestingly enough hair clinics are booming in Asia now. So much for genetics. Give them another generation or two and they’ll be as degenerate as more westernized countries. They’ll have the same levels of stress, the same health “authorities” pushing for massive amounts of starch all day, and everything will be GREAT /s

Note that most eastern bodybuilders look much healthier than current westerners. When people say genetics I think environment...

Korea and Japan are the lead research centers right now. Oh irony, so much for genetics indeed.

 

[mrchibbs]

... and interestingly enough hair clinics are booming in Asia now. So much for genetics. Give them another generation or two and they’ll be as degenerate as more westernized countries. They’ll have the same levels of stress, the same health “authorities” pushing for massive amounts of starch all day, and everything will be GREAT /s

Note that most eastern bodybuilders look much healthier than current westerners. When people say genetics I think environment...

Korea and Japan are the lead research centers right now. Oh irony, so much for genetics indeed.

You guys are spot on, that's one of my conclusions recently, the incidence of baldness has increased so much in recent decades in Asia, that many people don't have any incidence of baldness in their family, they're the first! (But won't be the last)

 

[Ableton]

What doesn’t really add up is this whole androgenization is good for hair narrative in this forum with asians having (had) more hair
They are the smallest race with the amount of facial hair, least androgenized facial bones and measure lower in dht than other races as well
For some it seems they never leave puberty which has advantages as well ofc
Add estrogen to this and the body will react with an androgenic stress response to keep you a sexually functioning male

 

[mrchibbs]

What doesn’t really add up is this whole androgenization is good for hair narrative in this forum with asians having (had) more hair
They are the smallest race with the amount of facial hair, least androgenized facial bones and measure lower in dht than other races as well
For some it seems they never leave puberty which has advantages as well ofc

Who pushes this "narrative" man? Certainly not me. I believe hairiness is not a sign of health in men.

 

[Ableton]

Who pushes this "narrative" man? Certainly not me. I believe hairiness is not a sign of health in men.

What about size, frame, ability to put on muscle, jaw size
These are not signs of androgenization?
Are you questioning this or that some asian races that have/had more hair rank lower in these markers?

 

[mrchibbs]

What about size, frame, ability to put on muscle, jaw size
These are not signs of androgenization?
Are you questioning this or that some asian races that have/had more hair rank lower in these markers?

I believe our conceptions of muscles, jaw size etc. have been distorted by western culture the past hundred years.

I don't think that's what defines a man

 

[Ableton]

I believe our conceptions of muscles, jaw size etc. have been distorted by western culture the past hundred years.

I don't think that's what defines a man

Fair point, but I do not think hair on top of a scalp does either
Also I am differentiating between androgens and being a man
And what I pointed out are markers/results of androgens

 

[wavelength123]

What about size, frame, ability to put on muscle, jaw size
These are not signs of androgenization?
Are you questioning this or that some asian races that have/had more hair rank lower in these markers?

I don’t think Asians should be singled out for their hair. Go to Latin America, most of the Middle East, look at blacks, you’ll see tons of masculine men with jet black and thick hair. It’s the westernized lifestyle 100%. Hell I commute from Harlem to wall st every day, guess who has the thicker hair and the more masculine frame? Not midtown wimps...

 

[mrchibbs]

Fair point, but I do not think hair on top of a scalp does either
Also I am differentiating between androgens and being a man
And what I pointed out are markers/results of androgens

No, you see, I think hair on top of the scalp matters a great deal, and is different. It's different from other hair because it has a much much longer hair cycle (hence can grow longer than other body hair), is more energy intensive, protects the scalp, insulates the brain, is an extension of the nervous system, and plays a role in interpersonal/sexual communication. Much like proper genital development/sexual function and higher intelligence, I think it's part of what defines a man (and a women). Some androgenic features are normal because T and DHT are our natural protective hormones since we have much lower levels of P4 vs. women. But I don't think excessive body hair growth is a sign of health. Adrenal androgens do not androgenize men in the proper way.