Males Regrow Hair During MtF Transition - DHT Bad? Skull Growth = MPB?

AnonE

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
284
This guy's blog post brings up a really interesting topic:

https://perfecthairhealth.com/trans-hormone-replacement-therapy-hair-regrowth/

In general, most hair loss theories fall short in not being able to explain differences between men and women, i.e. why don't women develop the balding pattern.

Skull growth derived from higher DHT levels seems to explain this partially. The other part the author points to is chronic scalp tension - what could be the hormonal cause behind that? Maybe cortisol - stressed people have stressed facial expressions (facial muscles) and maybe this is enough to stop nutrient flow via blood, keep calcium stuck where it shouldn't be, etc.

People point to things like hypothyroidism. That's definitely going to be bad for hair, but are women not also as hypothyroid as men on average? Ditto for other stress hormones. And walking around outside in my metro city, I can tell you it's way way way more men losing it than women. And generally in the Norwood-specific pattern.

The link above points to changing the DHT/estrogen ratios which may lead to skull bone remodeling in a way that's more favorable for blood flow getting to the galea. I'm thinking bone deposits are reduced during this process?

But then how does one square this up with the idea that DHT is an overall GOOD hormone (which I do believe - the mental effects and physical musculature effects are outstanding)? Because it seems to me that if you have high DHT you're perhaps 'playing with fire' - i.e. having a high chance of hair loss if other factors (e.g. chronic scalp tension) go wrong.

Based on this information, what's some prescriptive actionable advice to keep one's DHT high while caring for their hair and not causing excessive/abnormal calcification in the skull?

Interested in your thoughts.
 

LCohen

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
257
Drug so-called "anti-androgenic" Spironolactone has lot of anti-fibrotic, heart-friendly effects on body. Aldosterone causes calcification, Spiro is antagonist of aldosterone receptor.

Some Estradiol (E2) studies show that Estradiol has some anti-fibrotic & anti-calcification effects. Estradiol can bind estrogen receptor beta. This receptor have lot of beneficial effects on body. It actually lowers estrogen while it's a estrogen receptor.

Estrone (E1) is the real enemy for hair. It binds estrogen receptor alpha causes lot of inflammatory actions. Even breast cancer.

If DHT binds to estrogen receptor beta, it won't cause hair loss. It's called 3b-diol metabolite. You need a healthy thyroid for this.

If your thyroid isn't healthy, DHT will be converter into 3a-diol. Which binds to estrogen alpha receptor and cause hair loss..
 
Last edited:
OP
A

AnonE

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
284
Awesome info, didn't know that bit about thyroid health affecting DHT conversion. It all comes back to the thyroid it seems!
 

Lucas

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
374
And what is a healthy Thyroid? Can this be achieved whit T4 only?

Also, men that had a flat forehead don’t go bald, women had flat foreheads, and bald man had sloped foreheads.
 

johnwester130

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
3,563
this website says spirnolactone and progesterone will do the same thing

Hair loss
and yes, both will reverse a fibrotic heart

Heart and hormones

"
A proven association between AGA and cardiovascular disease indicates a common cause. Hypertension is strongly associated with androgenetic alopecia, so are glucose metabolism disorders, hypercholesterolemia, and benign prostate hyperplasia and/or carcinoma. Hypertension is also linked to hyperaldosteronism.

Spironolactone, the anti-hypertensive drug, is a mineralocorticoid receptor antagonist, and has been used in the treatment of AGA. Progesterone competes with the natural ligand aldosterone due to high binding affinity of progesterone to the human mineralocorticoid receptor. Progesterone would be the safer course to take"
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
Messages
1,142
Location
The Netherlands
Why don't women develop the balding pattern?

A comparison of aromatase content in frontal hair follicles from men and
women with pattern baldness has shown that it is six times greater
in women, which has led to speculation that this difference
may account for the difference in clinical presentations of pattern
baldness.

SHBG is the modulator for steroid action and availability and has receptors in hair. Too low levels can cause uncontrolled actions of steroids impacting hair health.
Spironolactone, Thyroid and Estradiol induce SHBG.
 

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
This guy's blog post brings up a really interesting topic:

Exactly How Trans Hormone Replacement Therapy Regrows Hair (Photos)

In general, most hair loss theories fall short in not being able to explain differences between men and women, i.e. why don't women develop the balding pattern.

Skull growth derived from higher DHT levels seems to explain this partially. The other part the author points to is chronic scalp tension - what could be the hormonal cause behind that? Maybe cortisol - stressed people have stressed facial expressions (facial muscles) and maybe this is enough to stop nutrient flow via blood, keep calcium stuck where it shouldn't be, etc.

People point to things like hypothyroidism. That's definitely going to be bad for hair, but are women not also as hypothyroid as men on average? Ditto for other stress hormones. And walking around outside in my metro city, I can tell you it's way way way more men losing it than women. And generally in the Norwood-specific pattern.

The link above points to changing the DHT/estrogen ratios which may lead to skull bone remodeling in a way that's more favorable for blood flow getting to the galea. I'm thinking bone deposits are reduced during this process?

But then how does one square this up with the idea that DHT is an overall GOOD hormone (which I do believe - the mental effects and physical musculature effects are outstanding)? Because it seems to me that if you have high DHT you're perhaps 'playing with fire' - i.e. having a high chance of hair loss if other factors (e.g. chronic scalp tension) go wrong.

Based on this information, what's some prescriptive actionable advice to keep one's DHT high while caring for their hair and not causing excessive/abnormal calcification in the skull?

Interested in your thoughts.

The blog post is misleading and makes a lot of incorrect statements. MtF conversion people receive anti-androgenic drugs and if they get "female" hormones they typically get a combination of estrogen AND progesterone. I don't think MtF get only estrogen because doctors know it is dangerous and increases risk of cancer. So, they balance it with progesterone. Also, progesterone is the steroid that gives the typical feminine features, and estrogen is mostly given for breast growth.
The only people that get full blockade of DHT plus hefty doses of just estrogen are men with prostate cancer. Given the association between MPB and prostate cancer, most of the prostate cancer patients have MPB as well. I don't know of even a single published study showing that the DHT blocker + estrogen treatment these people receive reverses or even stops their hair loss. That should tell you enough if DHT is a cause of hair loss and whether estrogen is beneficial.
 
Last edited:

MatheusPN

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Messages
547
Location
Brazil
I am very vigilant in what would be these typical female features!

With the contradictory infos I have, I dont know where to start;
Why hormones performance differentely in women and in men's, predominant usual ratios of hormones they have?
What're the prime ratios of hormones, that masculinize or feminize, (androsterone| etiocholanolone, is involved?)
What is the femalizing outcome in women with supplemental progesterone, beyond: opposing estrogen, which have some masculinization in behaviour and breast effects
Whay you consider female facets, what isnt neoteny and is seen in dimorphism?
Perhaps have very types and nuances of superlative female and extreme male essence, attributes, principaly in behaviour and face
Any word, guidance; will help, thanks in advance

Also I am having great benefits with, pansterone alone and even more in combination with androsterone, and I like the camphor in them; except the smell, feedback soon

Thanks people from RPF!
 
Last edited:

LCohen

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
257
And what is a healthy Thyroid? Can this be achieved whit T4 only?

Also, men that had a flat forehead don’t go bald, women had flat foreheads, and bald man had sloped foreheads.

That head shape is result of calcification and fibrosis. Starting from the forehead, the head gets bigger as the person goes bald. Scalp extends. Yes, non-balding scalp is flat. It maybe a sign of blood pressure or heart problem.

Prolactin
triggers sebaceous gland to make sebum, oil, grease. Oily hair and shining bald scalp is the result of prolactin.

Prolactin
and TSH also suppresses thyroid and metabolism. You need to keep both of them low. So low.

Clearly, androgens are not the reason for balding because;

Thousands of men have low T even low DHT and they're balding.

There are tons of bodybuilders using strongest androgens (like DHT) and harsh steroids. They're not bald. Even some of them have full head of hair.
 

Lucas

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
374
Is there a way to lower prolactin without using cabergoline?

I have a sloped forehead, I am norwood 3, had high prolactin, high TSH and my hair is oily and I have pimples on my scalp.
 

LCohen

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
257
Is there a way to lower prolactin without using cabergoline?

I have a sloped forehead, I am norwood 3, had high prolactin, high TSH and my hair is oily and I have pimples on my scalp.

You can use Lisuride, Bromocriptine. They won't cause valvular heart disease. Lisuride actually reverses valvular heart problems because it's 5HT2B antagonist. Bromo will not do harm in normal doses just don't use too much.

Though it is anathema here, BiEstro cream seems to be restoring thinning areas.

Actually Estriol (E3) is quite beneficial estrogen. It has lot of anti-inflammatory actions. Even usable against breast cancer on woman..
 

Arrade

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2018
Messages
1,496
You can use Lisuride, Bromocriptine. They won't cause valvular heart disease. Lisuride actually reverses valvular heart problems because it's 5HT2B antagonist. Bromo will not do harm in normal doses just don't use too much.



Actually Estriol (E3) is quite beneficial estrogen. It has lot of anti-inflammatory actions. Even usable against breast cancer on woman..
It’s also the pregnancy estrogen, I wouldn’t mess with it

How Different Types Of Estrogen Promote (and Hinder) Hair Growth

I think this guy stopped using it
 
OP
A

AnonE

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
284
Is there a way to lower prolactin without using cabergoline?

I have a sloped forehead, I am norwood 3, had high prolactin, high TSH and my hair is oily and I have pimples on my scalp.

Zinc and B6 I believe? But I'm not sure what reasonable dosages are.
 

Lucas

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
374
Cabergoline only causes hearth problems whit 1 mg dosages. I will take 0,25 mg 2 times a week.

Bromo. Had too much side effects, and need to be taken every day.
 

Blue09

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
60
To lower prolactin p5p and mucuna work very well. I think if you have high prolactin you will have low dopamine and vice versa.

Also good quality vitamin e, zinc, ashwangadha will work too.
 

xetawaves

Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
612
I don't know of even a single published study showing that the DHT blocker + estrogen treatment these people receive reverses or even stops their hair loss. That should tell you enough if DHT is a cause of hair loss and whether estrogen is beneficial.

Are you referring to mtf trans or am I misunderstanding this point? Because there might not be any existing studies, but there are tons of stories online of them regrowing hair while transitioning.
 

ivy

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
314
Location
Portugal
Guys, I'm nearly schocked at how some of you will just claim that women don't get the mpb pattern. There are several types of patterns and women may experience any of them. I have had serious AGA since I was 16. Safe hairline, rapidly thinning vertex. I had a transplant at 33 which helped cosmetically. Soon after, the pattern seemingly began to change: seasonal tellogen effluvium is a lot more noticeable (late summer-mid fall) and my hairline is now more prone to damage. If I get stressed, run into an obstacle when cycling, for instance, I get a shiver/tingling sensation in the hairline. Surely there are underlying metabolic issues explaining these changes, but the hairloss has been here all my life. I can provide pictures showing the area where transplanted follicles went and you'll clearly see the pattern.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom