Testosterone/Epitestosterone Ratio And Baldness

[JDreamer]

Estradiol (E2) is basically a growth hormone. It causes cell division and renewal of biological processes. I think it can restart the hair growth cycle if it is stopped, but it can also stop it if it is ongoing. The problem is that in women, the spurts of high estradiol surges are balanced by the even higher levels of progesterone. So it isn't impossible that it causes initial improvements in hair growth, but in most cases that's not what happens. E2's physiological role is important in periodic cycles, but all the evidence is clear (at least to me), constant elevation of e2 leads to adverse pathologies.

I've seen the same accounts you have. Initial stimulation on E2, followed by hard collapse. I've seen several MtF cases of guys with perfect hair who end up losing their hair on E2 alone. And the real success stories always involved E2 + Spiro/CPA. The most amazing transitions even involve large doses of bioidentical progesterone (P4) taken rectally (to mimic the natural balance seen in women).

Bottomline, it always depends on the initial physiological state of the person transitioning. But considering we've seen accounts of full regrowth of bald scalps on spironolactone and cyproterone acetate alone (both which measurably suppress estradiol), I think we can say that it isn't E2 which is therapeutic.

I enjoy reading the transgender threads on reddit. There's so much information we can glean from these experiments.

Just seems to me that on a surface level they're using E2 to help jump start the growth and then the Spiro (or whatever other progestins they use) helps balance their newly developed "female" hormonal profile like menstrual cycles do.

Where-as men who want to remain thus (as well as be able to use their pecker) cannot load up on E2 and maintain because they will become estro-dominant or exacerbate current estro-issues. Estrogen dominance is an inflammatory condition.

 

[mrchibbs]

Just seems to me that on a surface level they're using E2 to help jump start the growth and then the Spiro (or whatever other progestins they use) helps balance their newly developed "female" hormonal profile like menstrual cycles do.

Where-as men who want to remain thus (as well as be able to use their pecker) cannot load up on E2 and maintain because they will become estro-dominant or exacerbate current estro-issues. Estrogen dominance is an inflammatory condition.

In plenty of contexts E2 is shown to be a contributing factor to pathologies, that is true.

I think progesterone can and should be used liberally by men, even if it affects sexual function (which is temporary). But a better route as I've mentioned before would be to combine Progesterone with an androgen like DHEA which Ray has done already, but the holy grail may be a Progesterone and DHT combo. DHT is hard to obtain however.

 

[JDreamer]

In plenty of contexts E2 is shown to be a contributing factor to pathologies, that is true.

I think progesterone can and should be used liberally by men, even if it affects sexual function (which is temporary). But a better route as I've mentioned before would be to combine Progesterone with an androgen like DHEA which Ray has done already, but the holy grail may be a Progesterone and DHT combo. DHT is hard to obtain however.

My Karuna pure progesterone transdermal arrived yesterday. Now I need to grab the low dose DHEA - should it also be transd or oral?

 

[mrchibbs]

My Karuna pure progesterone transdermal arrived yesterday. Now I need to grab the low dose DHEA - should it also be transd or oral?

Always safer to go the transdermal route. Take as little oral supplements as possible.
For me 0.5mg cypro is basically the only supplement I take orally on a daily basis, along with some vitamin E occasionally.

 

[JDreamer]

Always safer to go the transdermal route. Take as little oral supplements as possible.
For me 0.5mg cypro is basically the only supplement I take orally on a daily basis, along with some vitamin E occasionally.

Quick question - is there such a thing as estrogen detox symptoms? I've been reading about it in regards to when people first start taking progesterone.

 

[mrchibbs]

Quick question - is there such a thing as estrogen detox symptoms? I've been reading about it in regards to when people first start taking progesterone.

I don't think so personally. That's such a loose term.

 

[JDreamer]

I don't think so personally. That's such a loose term.

Gotcha.

I was also asking because think I put too much on (the directions aren't exactly the clearest). Had a really bad headache the following day and some painful cystic acne developed on the back of my neck.

 

[JKX]

Gotcha.

I was also asking because think I put too much on (the directions aren't exactly the clearest). Had a really bad headache the following day and some painful cystic acne developed on the back of my neck.

It can liberate estrogen from cells into serum. This should clear after a few days of use.

 

[JDreamer]

It can liberate estrogen from cells into serum. This should clear after a few days of use.

Cool. I figured something was up.

 

[Kenny]

Ectodysplasin-a2 Induces Dickkopf 1 Expression In Human Balding Dermal Papilla Cells Overexpressing

the last few posts in this thread are pretty relevant

 

[GorillaHead]

It's not going to be that simple, if you can even get your hands on it.

First of all you have to consider whether this is a systemic imbalance or one local to the hair follicle. As far as I know the hair follicles do not synthesize their own testosterone, but obtain it via spillover from serum (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If epitestosterone is the same and its lack in hair follicles is reflective of the serum status, then we can assume that we have a rather wide systemic lack of epitestosterone in our entire body in which case supplementing it might make sense.

You have to consider that it is, in essence, an anti-androgen though, and it's questionable whether ingesting it orally would give adequate absorption and tissue distribution to ensure you don't get anti-androgenic side effects where you don't want them.

You are somewhat wrong. Star protein is highly expressed in balding tissue. Star protein creates localized steroids.

 

[DhtAssassin]

Ectodysplasin-a2 Induces Dickkopf 1 Expression In Human Balding Dermal Papilla Cells Overexpressing

the last few posts in this thread are pretty relevant

The theory looks kinda strong right now, wish that there were some known epitestosterone boosters, so that i could test it topically...

 

[Kenny]

The theory looks kinda strong right now, wish that there were some known epitestosterone boosters, so that i could test it topically...

its unfortunate that it isn't a profitable avenue otherwise I'm sure pharma would be all over this by now

 

[JDreamer]

The list of "things that are elevated or imbalanced in balding scalps" is a long one.

 

[Kenny]

The list of "things that are elevated or imbalanced in balding scalps" is a long one.

not gonna complain about having clues - just wish we could use them :P